ISRAEL: GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE - YES OR NO?

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FeedtheMachine

Guest
#1
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
 
Jul 23, 2017
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#3
watch these scriptures. God isnt done with Israel:

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,243
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Tennessee
#4
Israel is the apple of God's eye so the answer to your question is yes, they are indeed God's chosen people.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#5
Flesh descendants of Israel have never been nor ever will be God's chosen people.

Romans 9:8 KJV
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#6
There is nothing like "chosen".

Its always "chosen to something".

So, what you are asking? Is Israel chosen to what? To bring forth Christ? Yes, it was.
 
F

FeedtheMachine

Guest
#7
Thanks for the input friends. I guess the question: "Is Israel chosen to what? To bring forth Christ?" made me consider the question in a different light.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#8
watch these scriptures. God isnt done with Israel:

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
God's election ARE NOT enemies of the gospel... that's like saying Paul (God's elect) is an enemy of the gospel.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#9
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
God is making One new creation in His Son who is the head and high priest over His body

paul, a Jew of Jews, who knew the word and promises of God, and all the temple practices came to understand that all these lower OT signs and representations were simply the shadows pointing to all the realities found in Christ Jesus

your pastor shoukd have st least finished up his sermon pointing to Jesus and that all in Christ are the set apart priestly people to God who has taken those near (the Jews) and those far (the Gentiles) and has brought the two together in One body (Christ Jesus) through faith in Him

Your pastor should have at least continued on to remind all that, just as Paul mentioned and clarified, not all who say they are of (physical) Israel are of (spiritual) Israel and that God has reserved to himself a remnant
 
F

FeedtheMachine

Guest
#10
God is making One new creation in His Son who is the head and high priest over His body

paul, a Jew of Jews, who knew the word and promises of God, and all the temple practices came to understand that all these lower OT signs and representations were simply the shadows pointing to all the realities found in Christ Jesus

your pastor shoukd have st least finished up his sermon pointing to Jesus and that all in Christ are the set apart priestly people to God who has taken those near (the Jews) and those far (the Gentiles) and has brought the two together in One body (Christ Jesus) through faith in Him

Your pastor should have at least continued on to remind all that, just as Paul mentioned and clarified, not all who say they are of (physical) Israel are of (spiritual) Israel and that God has reserved to himself a remnant
Hi Miknik

Sorry, this wasn't a sermon preached by my Pastor. It was part of a DVD that a friend had sent me some time ago and it had just confused me a little.

He had also used Romans 2:29 in his sermon: "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." It just felt to me that throughout his sermon he was trying to convey that when the Bible is talking about "Jews" and "God's chosen nation" it is not talking about the children of Israel, but about the followers of Christ.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#11
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
This pastor was both right and wrong!

He was correct that the Covenant God made with Israel in the Sinai was a conditional covenant - and the condition was obedience to the law - which Israel obviously broke.

Most of Israel, as it was at that time (twelve tribes), is lost - the Northern Kingdom went into exile and never returned as a discrete national unit. Descendants of those people are found all across the Middle East today.
The Kingdom of Judah (tribe of Judah as well as parts of the tribes of Levi and Benjamin) also was given up into captivity - but at least a remnant of those did return and continue as a discrete ethnic unit to this day - Jews!

There is no doubt that, as a discrete ethnic unit, the Jews are currently in rebellion against God. After all, they reject the New Covenant. Obviously, all through history (New covenant history that is) there have been individual exceptions.

As individuals God has definitely not abandoned anyone who is a Jew. The promise, and offer, of salvation is open to all individuals regardless of ethnicity. This is made VERY clear in the New Testament!
However, it really does appear that God does have a role for Israel and has not abandoned them in an ethnic national sense.
This will not be on the basis of the Mosaic covenant however - the ball-game there has been irrevocably lost!
No, the promises go back further to the Abrahamic covenant, which is an unconditional covenant, (in fact the New covenant has its conceptual roots in the Abrahamic covenant) and it will be on that basis that God will honour His commitment to Israel.

There are individuals on this site who understand their eschatology better than I who can expand on the fact that Israel has not been ultimately abandoned by God.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#12
Matthew 15

Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thouSon of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.



This is a good food for thought teaching.


They will be gathered from all over.. GOD will graft in all that believe...

Israel the country will have people of mostly unbelief at this time as will the country of say... France... but you can not exalt a people in unbelief because they reside in a country called Israel.. I mean after all Many followed the Messiah and believed and many more did not.

Who and where are the children of Israel?

Are they not scattered? ....

A Gentile is one that is not Jewish... Judah is one Son of Israel..

All this genealogy is not going to pardon our sin... no.. it is by Faith that we are saved.

Be grafted in through belief and let us not be phased by things we do not understand nor need to thanks to Our Gracious GOD's gift to those that Repent and believe.




 
Jul 23, 2017
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#13
remember chosen or elect doesnt mean saved always. proof:

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#15
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
Not all Israel are born again of the incorruptible seed of God’s, living abiding Word. If any man has not the "Spirit of Christ" the "Holy Spirit of God" then neither do they belong to Christ in God

Some would believe it is a Jewish religion as if God was a man as us and was a respecter of persons

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by "Jesus Christ:" (he is Lord of all:) Act 10:34


Not preahing peace by the flesh of Christ as that seen which he said could not propfit.


I would offer that as new creatures given a new spirit that will never die but will be resurrected on the last day and given a new incorruptible body which will be neither Jew nor Gentile male or female.

What we are is not what we will be.

It is there that I believe many go astray hoping we will maintain these fleshly bodies of death and the kind of relationships it affords.


If the people of God that hear the voice of God and believe what he is saying as He works in them to both will and do His good pleasure. Those who hear as those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, but do not believe to the salvation of their soul, they would not be his people.
He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."
It is all about obtaining mercy. That verse applies all people, Jew, Gentile, Male and female. The new name He named His people is Christian…. a word that denoted residents of the New heavenly Jerusalem the city of Christ prepared as His one bride made up of Gentiles and Jews, male and female.
 
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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#16
remember chosen or elect doesnt mean saved always. proof:

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Elect is singular, and means the Church
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#17
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)


Yes,Israel are still God's chosen people.That has not changed. They are still the apple of His eye.Anyone who tells you different is either lying or believes in the replacement theology,which goes under several names. The Bible teaches that God is not done with the Jews.

The Jews disobeyed and were punished for it. They never lost the title to the land but they lost the right to use the land. Gentiles took over and trampled it for years. Now it is back in the hands of the Jewish people. The Bible says the desert will bloom like a rose,and so it has. Romans explains how we are grafted in to the Jewish root,we have not replaced them. The church is separate from the chosen people. And God is not finished with the Jews. The will be a remnant saved,as per Romans 11. Be careful of anyone telling you the Jews are not chosen,and read the Bible for yourself to learn the truth.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#18
FTM, read the Old Testament at least once from cover to cover.
Be careful with translations, as they can influence meaning. NIV is quite reputable. (Or KJV if you can.)

Have a notepad. 'I wonder why...such and such....?'
etc

Just keep an open mind, so that God can speak to you. Always be prepared to challenge anything that you have previously learned from man.



I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
#19
God's election ARE NOT enemies of the gospel... that's like saying Paul (God's elect) is an enemy of the gospel.
wrong. elect doesnt mean saved always, read:

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#20
I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
You have to go all the way back to the covenant which God made with Abraham (starting at Genesis 15) to understand that Israel (the twelve tribes) will remain a special nation because of God's grace, and that it will be redeemed and restored Israel which will be under the authority of Christ after His second coming. So in that sense they remain "chosen" even though the Israelites have generally been in rebellion and disobedience.

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. (Gen 15:18-21)