A time line for the Book of Judges

[Alnmouth]

I have recently started reading the Book of Judges for the first time in several years. Even reading just the early chapters makes clear that it covers a period of a few hundred years at least.

Here is my bugbear. The time of the judges followed the death of Joshua, and ended with the accession of Saul as the first king of Israel. Am I right? I think so.

Matthew 1 tells us that Boaz was born of Rahab, who was accepted into the Israelite community in the time of Joshua. Obed was born of Ruth, the wife of Boaz. Obed was the father of Jesse, who I'm pretty sure was still alive and flourishing when Saul was king. Jesse's son David replaced Saul as king.

In short, the time of the judges appears on the evidence of Matthew 1 to have lasted only a few generations.

Can anyone square the circle?

 

[graceNpeace]

I have recently started reading the Book of Judges for the first time in several years. Even reading just the early chapters makes clear that it covers a period of a few hundred years at least.

Here is my bugbear. The time of the judges followed the death of Joshua, and ended with the accession of Saul as the first king of Israel. Am I right? I think so.

Matthew 1 tells us that Boaz was born of Rahab, who was accepted into the Israelite community in the time of Joshua. Obed was born of Ruth, the wife of Boaz. Obed was the father of Jesse, who I'm pretty sure was still alive and flourishing when Saul was king. Jesse's son David replaced Saul as king.

In short, the time of the judges appears on the evidence of Matthew 1 to have lasted only a few generations.

Can anyone square the circle?

The geneology presented in Matthew may not be complete...

That geneology was presented for a purpose and that purpose was not to be a record every single generation from Adam to Jesus. Understand that it was never meant to be an exhaustive record. What Matthew presents is a symbolic representation.

A simple comparison with the geneologies presented in Chronicles should help.

 

[RamahDesjardin]

Matthew insists that there were exactly 14 generations from Abraham to David. I just counted them on my fingers, based on those listed in Matthew 1. It's 14 counting Abraham.

Salmon was only fifth in line after Judah's arrival in Egypt. That's five generations in 400 years. They lived longer back then and had children later in life. Consider that Moses didn't go out in the desert to meet Zepphora until he was 40. We tend to imagine that those people had babies in their teens/twenties and then died in their fifties, but that wasn't usually the case. Moses lived to 120. Joshua lived to 110.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Can anyone square the circle?

Since we are told it was "about 450 years" that should be satisfactory.

 

[Alnmouth]

Since we are told it was "about 450 years" that should be satisfactory.

Where are we told that please?

Thus far I have read into chapter 14. There is a fairly clear sequence of events in the first twelve chapters, which allows us to calculate the passage of just over 300 years.

Then we come to Samson, and it is not clear whether Samson's adventures follow the events of the preceding chapters, or whether they elaborate on what happened in an earlier chapter.

The land was ruled by Philistines, but this period of oppression is not given a start date as are the other periods of oppression in the earlier chapters of Judges. Also, a period of Philistine oppression is recorded in Chapter 10.

 

[RamahDesjardin]

From what I remember about Judges, the beginning chapters are a linear timeline, and then the later chapters include random episodes told out of sequence. Ruth actually used to be part of Judges until it became its own book. Scholars agree that the Judges era was about 350 years.

Keep in mind that we are later told Solomon built the temple exactly 480 years after the Exodus. Take off 40 years in the wilderness, several more years for Joshua, then the reigns of Saul and David. It works out that Judges was about 350.

 

[Alnmouth]

From what I remember about Judges, the beginning chapters are a linear timeline, and then the later chapters include random episodes told out of sequence. Ruth actually used to be part of Judges until it became its own book. Scholars agree that the Judges era was about 350 years.

Keep in mind that we are later told Solomon built the temple exactly 480 years after the Exodus. Take off 40 years in the wilderness, several more years for Joshua, then the reigns of Saul and David. It works out that Judges was about 350.

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Alnmouth]

Ruth actually used to be part of Judges until it became its own book.

Keep in mind that we are later told Solomon built the temple exactly 480 years after the Exodus. Take off 40 years in the wilderness, several more years for Joshua, then the reigns of Saul and David. It works out that Judges was about 350.

On second thoughts, it occurs to me that the Book of Judges provides a near perfect timeline for the period from the death of Joshua until the death of Abdon son of Hillel, which I calculated last night to be 350 years. This means that the time of the Judges must have exceeded 350 years when we add in Samson.

Also, do you have any evidence for the Book of Ruth having once been part of Judges?

 

[RamahDesjardin]

Ruth has long been considered an appendix or sequel to Judges. I misspoke about it literally being inside Judges (memory misfire) but I do remember them being closely coupled. Here's a link with an interesting look on why Judges ends the way it does, and why Ruth fits in with the story.

Judges And Ruth

 

[BeyondET]

Matthew insists that there were exactly 14 generations from Abraham to David. I just counted them on my fingers, based on those listed in Matthew 1. It's 14 counting Abraham.

Salmon was only fifth in line after Judah's arrival in Egypt. That's five generations in 400 years. They lived longer back then and had children later in life. Consider that Moses didn't go out in the desert to meet Zepphora until he was 40. We tend to imagine that those people had babies in their teens/twenties and then died in their fifties, but that wasn't usually the case. Moses lived to 120. Joshua lived to 110.

That's because many many folks, can't wrap their heads around the fact that Matt 1:6 is stating 14 from Abraham to David and 14 from David to the exile. meaning David is 14 gen from Abraham as well as the first King of Isreal. And verse 1:17 exactly says that' David is included in the first two 14 generations, counted twice.

Mt 1:17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from (Abraham to David "14),
fourteen from (David to the exile "14) to Babylon, and fourteen from the (exile to the Messiah "14).


Mt 1:6 and Jesse the father of King David. (14)
(1) David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,

 

[RamahDesjardin]

That's because many many folks, can't wrap their heads around the fact that Matt 1:6 is stating 14 from Abraham to David and 14 from David to the exile. meaning David is 14 gen from Abraham as well as the first King of Isreal. And verse 1:17 exactly says that' David is included in the first two 14 generations, counted twice.

Mt 1:17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from (Abraham to David "14),
fourteen from (David to the exile "14) to Babylon, and fourteen from the (exile to the Messiah "14).


Mt 1:6 and Jesse the father of King David. (14)
(1) David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or arguing with me...

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where are we told that please?

Please note the word "about" (an approximation, but having Divine authority)

And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan [Canaan], he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. (Acts 13:19,20).

 

[RamahDesjardin]

There is some dispute on how to translate Acts 13. Some English versions say it took 450 years for them to multiply in Egypt and then retake Israel, after which God gave them judges (see NLT, NASB, AMP, and ESV).

1 Kings 6:1 is consistent across all translations that Solomon started the temple 480 years after Exodus. If the Judges era had been anywhere close to 450, then the 40 years in the wilderness plus Saul and David would blow it out to well over 500. The safest bet is that Judges lasted 350-400 years.

 

[Alnmouth]

Ruth has long been considered an appendix or sequel to Judges. I misspoke about it literally being inside Judges (memory misfire) but I do remember them being closely coupled. Here's a link with an interesting look on why Judges ends the way it does, and why Ruth fits in with the story.

Judges And Ruth

Thanks. I found that essay helpful.

We are not told who wrote Judges, but the only strong candidate appears to have been Samuel. Also, I imagine that Judges had the same author as Ruth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is some dispute on how to translate Acts 13.

I'm not sure where you got that information, but THERE IS NO DISPUTE whatsoever regarding Acts 13:20

TRADITIONAL TEXT
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα, ὡς ἔτεσι τετρακοσίοις καὶ πεντήκοντα, ἔδωκε κριτὰς ἕως Σαμουὴλ τοῦ προφήτου.

King James Bible
And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.

CRITICAL TEXT
Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
ὡς ἔτεσιν τετρακοσίοις καὶ πεντήκοντα. καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα ἔδωκεν κριτὰς ἕως Σαμουὴλ προφήτου.

Westcott and Hort 1881
ὡς ἔτεσι τετρακοσίοις καὶ πεντήκοντα. καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα ἔδωκεν κριτὰς ἕως Σαμουὴλ προφήτου.

New International Version
All this took about 450 years. "After this, God gave them judges until the time of Samuel the prophet.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
This all took about 450 years. After this, He gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.

Young's Literal Translation
'And after these things, about four hundred and fifty years, He gave judges -- till Samuel the prophet;

In spite of this clear evidence, the RV, NASB, ASV, etc. went against their own critical texts and corrupted the Bible. More evidence of Bible corruption.

English Revised Version
and after these things he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.

New American Standard Bible
"After these things He gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.

American Standard Version
and after these things he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.

As you can see these so-called "Standard" versions are sub-standard.

 

[Enoch987]

There is a dispute on the 480th year when Solomon started to build the Temple. It doesn't include the 93 years that the enemies oppressed Israel in Judges. The total of # of years is 111 but Bullinger in Number in Scripture figured out that the 18 years of the Ammonites coincided with the 40 years of Philistines on the other side of the Jordan River.

 

[RamahDesjardin]

Wilderness 40 years
Joshua 7
Judges 450
Saul as king 40
David as king 40
Solomon before temple 4

Total 581

That is a full 100 years longer than 1 Kings 6:1 tells us:

And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the Lord.

I realize that Paul said "about 450" in Acts, but I can't swallow that he was off by 130 years, especially considering how educated he was on Jewish heritage. Then you'll also have to answer the OP on how it only took four generations to go 450 years, when generations did not move that slowly beforehand.

Meanwhile, 400 years in slavery + 40 years in wilderness + 7 years of Joshua is exactly 447 years, much closer to Paul's figure, and allows for 1 Kings 6 to stand. That's why some Bibles translate it thusly.

If you have any other math that reconciles 1 Kings 6 with your understanding of Acts 13, I'd love to hear it.

 

[RamahDesjardin]

There is a dispute on the 480th year when Solomon started to build the Temple. It doesn't include the 93 years that the enemies oppressed Israel in Judges. The total of # of years is 111 but Bullinger in Number in Scripture figured out that the 18 years of the Ammonites coincided with the 40 years of Philistines on the other side of the Jordan River.

So 1 Kings 6:1 is a fabrication? Why is it in Scripture?