Mary: Mother of Jesus

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WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#21
-
Some folk posit that Mary was, in some manner, a sort of surrogate mother,
i.e. Jesus' embryo was an implant. Others sincerely believe that Mary's baby
was an alternate species of human life totally unrelated to her own, i.e.
another Adam, so to speak; basing their posit on 1Cor 15:45.

But the Bible testifies that Jesus Christ was Mary's honest to gosh, bona fide
biological progeny.

Q: How can you be so sure that Jesus Christ was produced from his mother's
human egg, viz: her ovum?

A: Not only the Bible; but also the science of Biology bears that out.

Christ is stated to be born of David's seed-- not spiritual seed, rather,
human seed.

Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine
own heart, which shall fulfill all my will". Of this man's seed hath God,
according to His promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus

Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma (sper'
mah) which in males typically refers to their reproductive stuff and/or their
genetic material.

Bear in mind that we're talking about flesh here; not spirit; viz: an honest to
gosh human being rather than a spirit being; nor-- God forbid --an avatar.

Now, in order for Christ to descend from David's flesh, one of his biological
descendants had to be involved. So then, seeing as how Jesus was virgin
conceived, then his mother became the default progenitor, i.e. Mary was one
of David's granddaughters.

Luke 1:31 . . Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son

An implanted embryo isn't a conceived embryo. Conception takes place in a
woman's womb when her ovum is involved in the process.

Heb 7:14 . . It is clear that our Lord arose from Judah

Q: If Jesus Christ really was David's biological progeny; then wouldn't his
mom have passed the guilt of Adam's sin to him?

A: Yes; absolutely, because the whole entirety of Adam's posterity--
regardless of age, race, or gender --is automatically condemned for tasting
the forbidden fruit.

Note the grammatical tense of the passage below-- it's past tense; indicating
that the moment Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, he and his posterity
became guilty of tasting it-- in real time --including those of his family yet to
be born.

Rom 5:12 . . Sin entered the world through one man, and death through
sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

Rom 5:19 . .Through the disobedience of the one man, the many were
made sinners.

Well; the trick is: though Adam's disobedience made his posterity sinners; it
didn't make them sinful: that's something else altogether. We're not talking
about the so-called "fallen nature" here, we're just talking about joint
principals in Adam's act of disobedience.

The good news is: Adam's sin is not a sin unto hell. No; it's very simple to
clear his sin off the books seeing as how mortality is the proper satisfaction
of justice for what he did (Gen 2:16-17). The satisfaction of justice for his
posterity's own personal sins is another matter.

Q: If Jesus Christ was made a joint principal in Adam's slip-up, then how can
it be honestly said that Christ was a lamb without blemish or spot?

A: Adam's slip made Christ culpable right along with his fellow men, yes; but
it didn't make him sinful. In point of fact; Christ committed no personal sins
of his own. (John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)

Q: What was the secret to his success?

A: Jesus Christ is a mysterious amalgam of human and divine. Not only did
he descend from David according to the flesh, but Christ also descended
from God according to the Spirit. (Luke 1:32-35). That is quite an advantage
because according to 1John 3:9, that which is born of God not only doesn't
sin, but cannot sin.

/
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#22
I believe you are quite mistaken in labeling the human body of Christ as "corrupted flesh". The whole point of the virgin birth was so that the sin-nature of humanity would not taint the Savior. Therefore Scripture says that Christ had no sin and He did no sin.
I would offer. The demonstration of the work performed from the foundation of the world is not the actual work of the Lamb of God. It’s why it’s called a demonstration .God is Spirit and not a man as us. He remains without form, without mother or father beginning of Spirit life or end thereof .

If the flesh of the Son of man aged in a process of decay leading towards death and the total destruction of a fleshly body without a spirit . Then we would be in agreement what Christ said. (My flesh profits for nothing). This makes the flesh of Mary or any believer a dead body called a body of death ....not a source of living faith

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens (Heb 7:26)
The Spirit of Christ the Holy Spiirt of God cannot sin. But a body typified as sinful was needed to put away sin in the flesh A theophany as a vision like that with Melchidek would not work to put away sin in the flesh. Corrupted .flesh was needed to demonstrate the unseen spiritual work of pouring out His Spirit on flesh according to that promise Corrupted flesh and blood was needed for that one time demonstration to show the world he is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (not seen) the eternal faith principle .


1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

My (comments)

For the law of the Spirit of life (not flesh of life) in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:2

[QUOTE](Mary) She alone does not make up the bride of Christ That is not even suggested in the OP or in Scripture.
[/QUOTE]

The OP desires we belive that she is the mother of us all .But its what the scriptures informs us, the whole church makes up the mother of us all .Not just one of the lively stones that does make up the spiritual house of God, His bride. She as the bride of Christ is the mother of us all . The flesh profits for nothing. Corrupted flesh has no eternal spirit and therefore cannot rise to new spirit life as with those who have been born again .
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#23
-
Q: Seeing as how Christ was virgin conceived; how did he get into Joseph's genealogy
as per the first chapter of Matthew?

A: At Gen 48:5-7, Jacob adopted his own two biological grandsons Manasseh and
Ephraim; thus installing them in positions equal in rank, honor, and power to his twelve
original sons, which had the effect of adding additional children to Rachel's brood just as
effectively as the children born of her maid Bilhah-- Dan, and Naphtali.

Jacob's motive for adopting his son Joseph's two sons was in sympathy for his
deceased wife being cut off during her child-bearing years, which subsequently
prevented her from having any more children of her own. Ephraim and Manasseh bring
Rachel's total up to six: two of her own, two by her maid Bilhah, and two by Joseph's
wife Asenath.

Now, fast-forward to the New Testament where the angel of The Lord spoke to Joseph
in a dream and ordered him to take part in naming Mary's out-of-wedlock baby.

"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus" (Matt 1:21)

Joseph complied.

"And he gave him the name Jesus." (Matt 1:25)

So Christ went in the books as Joseph's son; because that's how it worked in those
days when a man stood with a woman to name her child. In other words: Christ became
Joseph's son by means of adoption, just as Ephraim and Manasseh became Jacob's
sons by means of adoption.

Q: But wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Jesus was Joseph's foster child rather
than adopted child?

A: Webster's defines "foster" as affording, receiving, or sharing nurture or parental care
though not related by blood or legal ties. In other words: foster children have no
inheritance rights nor a legitimate place in their foster father's genealogy. Foster
children are expendable.

In contrast; Webster's defines "adopt" as to take voluntarily (a child of other parents) as
one's own child. In other words: adopted children have inheritance rights and a
legitimate place in their adopted father's genealogy. Adopted children are permanent.

Jesus' adoption was essential because even though he was born a biological candidate
for David's throne, he wasn't born a legitimate candidate. The reason being that the
throne passed to Solomon rather than his brother Nathan. Plus, the throne
never passes down through women, only men. Mary provided Jesus' biological right to
David's throne, but she could not provide him a legal right to it.

John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer are often unaware of the strict biblical conditions
that dictate ascendance to David's throne and so are easily led to believe that Joseph
was Jesus' foster father instead of his adopted father.

NOTE: Just in case there's a man looking in on this thinking about adopting his wife's
children from a previous marriage; should the two of you later divorce; she can legally
make you pay child support for another man's kids because when you adopt them, the
law and the courts regard their status as your own biological progeny.

/
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#24
-
Some folk posit that Mary was, in some manner, a sort of surrogate mother,
i.e. Jesus' embryo was an implant. Others sincerely believe that Mary's baby
was an alternate species of human life totally unrelated to her own, i.e.
another Adam, so to speak; basing their posit on 1Cor 15:45.

But the Bible testifies that Jesus Christ was Mary's honest to gosh, bona fide
biological progeny.

Q: How can you be so sure that Jesus Christ was produced from his mother's
human egg, viz: her ovum?

A: Not only the Bible; but also the science of Biology bears that out.

Christ is stated to be born of David's seed-- not spiritual seed, rather,
human seed.

Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine
own heart, which shall fulfill all my will". Of this man's seed hath God,
according to His promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus

Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma (sper'
mah) which in males typically refers to their reproductive stuff and/or their
genetic material.

Bear in mind that we're talking about flesh here; not spirit; viz: an honest to
gosh human being rather than a spirit being; nor-- God forbid --an avatar.

Now, in order for Christ to descend from David's flesh, one of his biological
descendants had to be involved. So then, seeing as how Jesus was virgin
conceived, then his mother became the default progenitor, i.e. Mary was one
of David's granddaughters.

Luke 1:31 . . Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son

An implanted embryo isn't a conceived embryo. Conception takes place in a
woman's womb when her ovum is involved in the process.

Heb 7:14 . . It is clear that our Lord arose from Judah

Q: If Jesus Christ really was David's biological progeny; then wouldn't his
mom have passed the guilt of Adam's sin to him?

A: Yes; absolutely, because the whole entirety of Adam's posterity--
regardless of age, race, or gender --is automatically condemned for tasting
the forbidden fruit.

Note the grammatical tense of the passage below-- it's past tense; indicating
that the moment Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, he and his posterity
became guilty of tasting it-- in real time --including those of his family yet to
be born.

Rom 5:12 . . Sin entered the world through one man, and death through
sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

Rom 5:19 . .Through the disobedience of the one man, the many were
made sinners.

Well; the trick is: though Adam's disobedience made his posterity sinners; it
didn't make them sinful: that's something else altogether. We're not talking
about the so-called "fallen nature" here, we're just talking about joint
principals in Adam's act of disobedience.

The good news is: Adam's sin is not a sin unto hell. No; it's very simple to
clear his sin off the books seeing as how mortality is the proper satisfaction
of justice for what he did (Gen 2:16-17). The satisfaction of justice for his
posterity's own personal sins is another matter.

Q: If Jesus Christ was made a joint principal in Adam's slip-up, then how can
it be honestly said that Christ was a lamb without blemish or spot?

A: Adam's slip made Christ culpable right along with his fellow men, yes; but
it didn't make him sinful. In point of fact; Christ committed no personal sins
of his own. (John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)

Q: What was the secret to his success?

A: Jesus Christ is a mysterious amalgam of human and divine. Not only did
he descend from David according to the flesh, but Christ also descended
from God according to the Spirit. (Luke 1:32-35). That is quite an advantage
because according to 1John 3:9, that which is born of God not only doesn't
sin, but cannot sin.

/
God doesn't need a human egg embryo to create a man from dirt,
God doesn't need a human egg embryo to create a woman from the rib of a man.
God doesn't need a human egg to create a human embryo from the lining of a uterus,
So that the world may be reconciled.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
#25
God doesn't need a human egg embryo to create a man from dirt,
God doesn't need a human egg embryo to create a woman from the rib of a man.
God doesn't need a human egg to create a human embryo from the lining of a uterus,
So that the world may be reconciled.
I think Mary being used in a very special way is a great honor for her.
Why should be downplay that honor.
We give honor to our parents, our grandparents, we give honor to many people in life.
Why should we down play the honor given to Mary by God?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,872
113
#26
God doesn't need a human egg embryo to create a man from dirt,
God doesn't need a human egg embryo to create a woman from the rib of a man.
God doesn't need a human egg to create a human embryo from the lining of a uterus,
So that the world may be reconciled.
This post is simply to controvert what is actually revealed in Scripture. As a matter of fact God did not need Mary at all had He simply chosen to bring Jesus into the world as Jesus had appeared in Old Testament times to many as a Man -- as the Angel of the LORD. Since neither you nor anyone else knows exactly the details of the conception of Christ, it is far better to remain silent than spew nonsense.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,872
113
#27
I think Mary being used in a very special way is a great honor for her.
Why should be downplay that honor.
We give honor to our parents, our grandparents, we give honor to many people in life.
Why should we down play the honor given to Mary by God?
You are quite right. Mary is the mother of Jesus, who is now the Lord Jesus Christ. He is also the King of kings and the Lord of lords, and He is also "the Man Christ Jesus" at the right hand of the Father. Jesus will always remain the God-Man as the Son of God and the Son of Man. Therefore, for no other reason than that she is the human mother of the Savior of the world, she deserves our total respect and honor. Just not worship, veneration, or devotion. She was highly favored with God, and that should be sufficient for all Christians.

And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. (Luke 1:28).