There is no scripture stating that the sun or moon fall to earth.. And the stars falling to earth can be seen as a massive meteor shower.. We call meteorites falling stars even to this very day.. And you assume that people will be keeping count? Maybe the lifestyle will be so simple that such things will not be worried about..
The Millennium anum anum anum
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Jewish way of understanding scriptures?
The Jewish way of understanding scriptures lead them to be unable to percieve tat jesus was their returned Messiah..
The Jewish way of understanding scriptures lead them to reject and execute Jesus..
The Jewish way of understanding scripture has lead them to keep on rejecting Jesus for these past near on 2000 years..
So now you want to tell everyone to look at scriptures in the way Jews do?
You want people to be lead by the Blind?
Thats a sure way to ending up in darkness and being lost..
The Jewish way of understanding scriptures lead them to be unable to percieve tat jesus was their returned Messiah..
The Jewish way of understanding scriptures lead them to reject and execute Jesus..
The Jewish way of understanding scripture has lead them to keep on rejecting Jesus for these past near on 2000 years..
So now you want to tell everyone to look at scriptures in the way Jews do?
You want people to be lead by the Blind?
Thats a sure way to ending up in darkness and being lost..
I don't believe that Israel and the Church have separate destinies. There is only one body of believers and only one means of salvation. I don't see the Church as being 'Plan B' but an integral part of the whole plan of God. Israel was a type and shadow of the Church to come Where we differ is that I believe that Dispensationalism once known as Darbyism in which the plans for the salvation and future of Israel and the church are separate and the Pre Trib rapture are a part has deceived thousands of people including yourself. It differs from other systems in that Preterism for example although false has never gained the same following . If it wasn't for Schofield and Moody Darbyism wouldn't have either.
As for finding the truth I have already. I hope you will too.
As for finding the truth I have already. I hope you will too.
I think it has been put to rest that Dispensationalism and Darbyism are different from one another. But both have Israel and the Church on different destines.
I have seen your arguments and others as well. There is little difference in your eschatology and a preterist eschatology. You both disregard God's Words.
I urge you to exercise Acts 17:11 and throw Darby out of your mind..... He had a lot of things wrong but he did have a few things right and the Pre-trib was one of them.....God's direct words tell us this, the Inspired Word of GOD also tells this and finally even the way (language) the Bible was written agrees with GOD. I guess it should, it is HIS Words, but if you disregard them(God's Words) in any fashion and try to piecemeal them together to fit ones Ideology, then are you any better than Darby in your mind?
Tanakh, I still wish you well but will hope and pray for the best.
Blade
You obviously don't understand what I am talking about otherwise you wouldn't
have posted what you have accused me of. The method of interpretation I am putting
forward in my post was used by The Holy Spirit Jesus and the Apostles including Paul. I am
not advocating that Christians should throw their Bibles away and read the Talmud instead
It would take several pages to explain it that's why I recommended some books written by
a Conservative Evangelical Jewish Pastor in my posting
have posted what you have accused me of. The method of interpretation I am putting
forward in my post was used by The Holy Spirit Jesus and the Apostles including Paul. I am
not advocating that Christians should throw their Bibles away and read the Talmud instead
It would take several pages to explain it that's why I recommended some books written by
a Conservative Evangelical Jewish Pastor in my posting
It is signifed in the Revelation twelve vision representing the chaste virgin bride the church clothed with the light of the gosel the righteousness of Christ. It is the end of time .the time keepers the Sun and moon are under the feet of the bride .
There will be no Sun in the new order
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed, with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.Rev 12:1
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
There will be no Sun in the new order
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed, with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.Rev 12:1
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
E
prophesy can not be spiritual, otherwise there is no way t determine if it came true or not, we could only speculate, and no one could prove If you were right or not, and God would not be proven to know all things
a parable is not a prophetic word, it is another form of language, used to explain a spiritual truth.
a parable is not a prophetic word, it is another form of language, used to explain a spiritual truth.
Below is the scriptural identity of the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven starswere bowing down to me.”
When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?” His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind. - Genesis 37:9-10
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sun = Jacob
Moon = Wife/wives
Eleven Stars = Eleven of Jabcob's son's, with Joseph making twelve
Since the woman is said to be clothed with the sun, with moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelves stars, which are symbolic for Jacob, his wife and his twelve son's, then the woman is symbolic representing the nation Israel proper, not the church.
That's the true Biblical interpretation of the woman of Revelation 12.
Furthermore, the church is nowhere mentioned anywhere in the context of Revelation 12, nor is the church mentioned anywhere in the entire narrative of God's wrath.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven starswere bowing down to me.”
When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?” His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind. - Genesis 37:9-10
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sun = Jacob
Moon = Wife/wives
Eleven Stars = Eleven of Jabcob's son's, with Joseph making twelve
Since the woman is said to be clothed with the sun, with moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelves stars, which are symbolic for Jacob, his wife and his twelve son's, then the woman is symbolic representing the nation Israel proper, not the church.
That's the true Biblical interpretation of the woman of Revelation 12.
Furthermore, the church is nowhere mentioned anywhere in the context of Revelation 12, nor is the church mentioned anywhere in the entire narrative of God's wrath.
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.Rev 12:2
The spiritual unseen understanding? Or a outward of the flesh Jewish woman and you are in agreement with the Catholics and call her Mary?
The book of Revelation is signified in parables. What the spiritual identity that is hidden from the lost mean if the not the bride of Christ?
What does the woman clothed represent? Clothed as a city called Christian ? What does with the Sun and Moon under her feet represent? THe last day time has run out? What do feet represent in parables? What do the stars signify?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
What does the key signify if not the loosing authority of the word of God? What does the bottomless pit signfy if not the everlasting authority of the gospel ?
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,What the Dragon signify as a sign to observe (not seek after) or the serpents. Does it signfy the devil or satan to represent the father of lies who has no form He is shown bound by the bible till the end of time represented by a unknown (the word thousand). It has been over two thousand literal years from the time of the begining of the last days. The veil is rent marking the last days
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
What does loosed a little season signify?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What do thrones repersent seeing a eternal Spirit that remians without mother or father, begining of Spirit life or end of it does not literal sit on a throne ? What does souls with no heads signify in that parable? What does the mark signify?..Natural uncoverted man represented by another figure (parable) like the mark of Cain . 666 the number of Man, a beast of the field
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
What does the "rest of the dead" signify ? Are they literaly dead with no spirit life that could be raised to new life on the last day ?
The spiritual unseen understanding? Or a outward of the flesh Jewish woman and you are in agreement with the Catholics and call her Mary?
The book of Revelation is signified in parables. What the spiritual identity that is hidden from the lost mean if the not the bride of Christ?
What does the woman clothed represent? Clothed as a city called Christian ? What does with the Sun and Moon under her feet represent? THe last day time has run out? What do feet represent in parables? What do the stars signify?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
What does the key signify if not the loosing authority of the word of God? What does the bottomless pit signfy if not the everlasting authority of the gospel ?
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,What the Dragon signify as a sign to observe (not seek after) or the serpents. Does it signfy the devil or satan to represent the father of lies who has no form He is shown bound by the bible till the end of time represented by a unknown (the word thousand). It has been over two thousand literal years from the time of the begining of the last days. The veil is rent marking the last days
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
What does loosed a little season signify?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What do thrones repersent seeing a eternal Spirit that remians without mother or father, begining of Spirit life or end of it does not literal sit on a throne ? What does souls with no heads signify in that parable? What does the mark signify?..Natural uncoverted man represented by another figure (parable) like the mark of Cain . 666 the number of Man, a beast of the field
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
What does the "rest of the dead" signify ? Are they literaly dead with no spirit life that could be raised to new life on the last day ?
There are many references that support that in the new heavens and earth there would be no need for time keepers used to contrast darkness as curses, and light as blessings.
One thing three things are said that make God, God. God is Spirit. God is Love. God is light and not that he is able to create light which he shows he can without the aid of the Sun and the moon (the creation)
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.......(No Sun)
Four days later he flicts the switch. Most likely knowing in advance men would attribute the Sun as the center of the universe and not the Creator
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: (time keepers) And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Gen 1:14
The last day in the twinkling of the eye .
Notice as a description of the bride of Christ coming down as a city prepared as His bride. The walls of the spiritual house of God his wife are described as apostles and gates represent the tribes all together making one bride, one gospel
Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an “everlasting light”, and thy God thy glory.Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine “everlasting light”, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. Isa 60:18
Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
One thing three things are said that make God, God. God is Spirit. God is Love. God is light and not that he is able to create light which he shows he can without the aid of the Sun and the moon (the creation)
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.......(No Sun)
Four days later he flicts the switch. Most likely knowing in advance men would attribute the Sun as the center of the universe and not the Creator
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: (time keepers) And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Gen 1:14
The last day in the twinkling of the eye .
Notice as a description of the bride of Christ coming down as a city prepared as His bride. The walls of the spiritual house of God his wife are described as apostles and gates represent the tribes all together making one bride, one gospel
Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an “everlasting light”, and thy God thy glory.Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine “everlasting light”, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. Isa 60:18
Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Um, no, we are not in agreement! The woman of Revelation 12, as revealed in Genesis 37:9-10, Israel:
Sun = Jacob
Moon = Wife/wives
Twelves stars = Jacob's sons
Therefore, the woman as a whole represents the nation Israel
The book of Revelation is not made up of parables. It should be read and understood in the literal sense unless symbolism is obvious. Anyone who just applies a symbolic meaning to everything are then just distorting the true meaning.
None of the above! To interpret the symbolism of the woman, we must stick with what scripture reveals:
Sun = Jacob
Moon = Wife/wives
Twelves stars = Jacob's sons
Therefore, the woman as a whole represents the nation Israel
Shortly come to pass = Imminency, on the horizon, looming, about to take place, in the workings, etc.
Sent and signified it by his angel = The angel made known, communicated the information to John
The key signifies that a key, whether physical or spiritual, is literally required to unlock the Abyss (Rev.9:1) and that same key will be required to lock it back up again (Rev.20:1).
The Abyss is not symbolic representing the authority of the gospel, but is a literal place under the earth, the abode of demons. This the same place that those demons collectively called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them into (Luke 8:31). The Abyss is also the same place where at the end of the literal thousand years, the spirits of the unrighteous dead are resurrected out of and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15)
The dragon is symbolic representing Satan, just as the scripture that you listed states. After God's wrath has been poured out and Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. After that, the dragon/Satan will be seized and thrown into the literal place of the Abyss, which is under the earth, and will be bound there for a literal thousand years, which is during the same thousand years Christ will be ruling.
I'm sorry, but you really need to believe what you are reading, as well as praying for discernment of what is literal and what is symbolic.
Why do you make things so difficult to understand, always attempting apply some spiritual meaning?
At the end of the thousand years, Satan who will have been bound in the Abyss for that thousand years, will be released at the end for one last rebellion. Once that fails Rev.20:10 says:
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
No mystery here! He's let out for short time.
And that attempt to force spiritual meanings goes on!
The thrones represent thrones upon which those who will be given authority to judge are seated, just like the scripture states. Jesus told his disciples that they would sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. They're chairs, regal seats, garee! Nothing more!
It signifies that in his vision, John saw those great tribulation saints who had been beheaded. And then he saw them come to life (resurrect)
It signifies a literal mark/device that will go in/on the literal hand or the literal forehead of an individual, which without it, no one will be able to buy or sell. We already have people who are being implanted with chips under the hand, one of its purposes being to make purchases, which demonstrates that the mark is a literal device that will go in/on the skin of the hand or forehead and will become the only method of buying and selling during the time of the beasts reign.
The "rest of the dead" is referring to those unrighteous dead, who will have not been worthy to take part in the first resurrection and are therefore those whom the second death has power over and who will be resurrected out of Hades to stand at the great white throne judgment. Consequently, while their spirit/souls are in Hades, they are very conscious and aware of everything, just like the rich man who was/is in torment in flame.
garee, you really need to jump down off of your spiritual cloud and take the word of God at face value, that is until a symbolic or metaphoric interpretation is obvious. As long as you continue interpreting the way you are, you will never understand Revelation and end-time events.
Stop ignoring the literal sense and embrace it!
Sun = Jacob
Moon = Wife/wives
Twelves stars = Jacob's sons
Therefore, the woman as a whole represents the nation Israel
The book of Revelation is not made up of parables. It should be read and understood in the literal sense unless symbolism is obvious. Anyone who just applies a symbolic meaning to everything are then just distorting the true meaning.
None of the above! To interpret the symbolism of the woman, we must stick with what scripture reveals:
Sun = Jacob
Moon = Wife/wives
Twelves stars = Jacob's sons
Therefore, the woman as a whole represents the nation Israel
Shortly come to pass = Imminency, on the horizon, looming, about to take place, in the workings, etc.
Sent and signified it by his angel = The angel made known, communicated the information to John
The key signifies that a key, whether physical or spiritual, is literally required to unlock the Abyss (Rev.9:1) and that same key will be required to lock it back up again (Rev.20:1).
The Abyss is not symbolic representing the authority of the gospel, but is a literal place under the earth, the abode of demons. This the same place that those demons collectively called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them into (Luke 8:31). The Abyss is also the same place where at the end of the literal thousand years, the spirits of the unrighteous dead are resurrected out of and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15)
The dragon is symbolic representing Satan, just as the scripture that you listed states. After God's wrath has been poured out and Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. After that, the dragon/Satan will be seized and thrown into the literal place of the Abyss, which is under the earth, and will be bound there for a literal thousand years, which is during the same thousand years Christ will be ruling.
I'm sorry, but you really need to believe what you are reading, as well as praying for discernment of what is literal and what is symbolic.
Why do you make things so difficult to understand, always attempting apply some spiritual meaning?
At the end of the thousand years, Satan who will have been bound in the Abyss for that thousand years, will be released at the end for one last rebellion. Once that fails Rev.20:10 says:
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
No mystery here! He's let out for short time.
And that attempt to force spiritual meanings goes on!
The thrones represent thrones upon which those who will be given authority to judge are seated, just like the scripture states. Jesus told his disciples that they would sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. They're chairs, regal seats, garee! Nothing more!
It signifies that in his vision, John saw those great tribulation saints who had been beheaded. And then he saw them come to life (resurrect)
It signifies a literal mark/device that will go in/on the literal hand or the literal forehead of an individual, which without it, no one will be able to buy or sell. We already have people who are being implanted with chips under the hand, one of its purposes being to make purchases, which demonstrates that the mark is a literal device that will go in/on the skin of the hand or forehead and will become the only method of buying and selling during the time of the beasts reign.
The "rest of the dead" is referring to those unrighteous dead, who will have not been worthy to take part in the first resurrection and are therefore those whom the second death has power over and who will be resurrected out of Hades to stand at the great white throne judgment. Consequently, while their spirit/souls are in Hades, they are very conscious and aware of everything, just like the rich man who was/is in torment in flame.
garee, you really need to jump down off of your spiritual cloud and take the word of God at face value, that is until a symbolic or metaphoric interpretation is obvious. As long as you continue interpreting the way you are, you will never understand Revelation and end-time events.
Stop ignoring the literal sense and embrace it!
