Dualism

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#1
Dualism means the belief that there are two equal and independent powers at the back of everything, one of them good and the other bad, and that this universe is the battlefield in which they fight out an endless war. I personally think that next to Christianity Dualism is the manliest and most sensible creed on the market. But it has a catch in it.

The two powers, or spirits, or gods—the good one and the bad one—are supposed to be quite independent. They both existed from all eternity.

Neither of them made the other, neither of them has any more right than the other to call itself God. Each presumably thinks it is good and thinks the other bad.

One of them likes hatred and cruelty, the other likes love and mercy, and each backs its own view. Now what do we mean when we call one of them the Good Power and the other the Bad Power?

Either we are merely saying that we happen to prefer the one to the other—like preferring beer to cider—or else we are saying that, whatever the two powers think about it, and whichever we humans, at the moment, happen to like, one of them is actually wrong, actually mistaken, in regarding itself as good.

Now if we mean merely that we happen to prefer the first, then we must give up talking about good and evil at all. For good means what you ought to prefer quite regardless of what you happen to like at any given moment. If "being good" meant simply joining the side you happened to fancy, for no real reason, then good would not deserve to be called good.

So we must mean that one of the two powers is actually wrong and the other actually right.


This is from Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

Is this what those of you versed in theology believe dualism to be?

I agree with the conclusion. But, definitely am not espousing this.


We have a spirit, a soul, housed in 1 body. Our spirit comes alive in Christ Jesus and then we learn to rule soul and body from the position of the kingdom of God within us, and the position of being placed in the heavenly realm with the victorious Son of God. We learn His ways and imitate...put down habits so to speak, and live in newness of mind.

Is this dualism?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#2
I've never given the idea of dualism much thought stones.

But I hereby challenge you to a dual at sunrise tomorrow - you choose the weapons....:p

No rolling pins allowed.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#3
I've never given the idea of dualism much thought stones.

But I hereby challenge you to a dual at sunrise tomorrow - you choose the weapons....:p

No rolling pins allowed.
Aw..shoot...rolling pins is all I got.

I'll have to look around my kitchen...:) Sunrise in the morning...I shall be there! Wherever there is.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#4
How about a bow and arrow? I have a toy one here left by grandkids.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#5
So that was from "Mere Christianity" - I'm sure I read that long time ago - but I don't remember the "dualism" part.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#6
So that was from "Mere Christianity" - I'm sure I read that long time ago - but I don't remember the "dualism" part.
Me too. Years ago and I don't remember it either. It's like a new thing to me. lol

So much for books.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#7
Dualism means the belief that there are two equal and independent powers at the back of everything, one of them good and the other bad, and that this universe is the battlefield in which they fight out an endless war. I personally think that next to Christianity Dualism is the manliest and most sensible creed on the market. But it has a catch in it.

The two powers, or spirits, or gods—the good one and the bad one—are supposed to be quite independent. They both existed from all eternity.

Neither of them made the other, neither of them has any more right than the other to call itself God. Each presumably thinks it is good and thinks the other bad.

One of them likes hatred and cruelty, the other likes love and mercy, and each backs its own view. Now what do we mean when we call one of them the Good Power and the other the Bad Power?

Either we are merely saying that we happen to prefer the one to the other—like preferring beer to cider—or else we are saying that, whatever the two powers think about it, and whichever we humans, at the moment, happen to like, one of them is actually wrong, actually mistaken, in regarding itself as good.

Now if we mean merely that we happen to prefer the first, then we must give up talking about good and evil at all. For good means what you ought to prefer quite regardless of what you happen to like at any given moment. If "being good" meant simply joining the side you happened to fancy, for no real reason, then good would not deserve to be called good.

So we must mean that one of the two powers is actually wrong and the other actually right.


This is from Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

Is this what those of you versed in theology believe dualism to be?

I agree with the conclusion. But, definitely am not espousing this.


We have a spirit, a soul, housed in 1 body. Our spirit comes alive in Christ Jesus and then we learn to rule soul and body from the position of the kingdom of God within us, and the position of being placed in the heavenly realm with the victorious Son of God. We learn His ways and imitate...put down habits so to speak, and live in newness of mind.

Is this dualism?
I don't know if that's what everyone thinks of as dualism, but I agree (for a change) with Lewis.

And I agree that you're interpretation of dualism in our body is the same thing in pint-size. Roughly the reason I hate discussions of dichotomy (or it's twin sister trichotomy, which also includes soul in the mix.) You're still deciding who rules. If it is our job to rule, then we're right back to deciding who the good guy is and who is the bad guy between me and God.

God is supremely sovereign whether we accept that or not.

And we must decrease that he increases, so why bother figuring out which parts of me is me? Me belongs to him. All of me!

Dualism, at any level, is the same fiction as "The force be with you." It is fiction!
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#8
So what got you thinking about this? Dual spin cycles on the washer?
 
Aug 16, 2016
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#9
Dualism is major in the occult world
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#10
This is the website that I took the portion of Lewis's book from.

~http://www.epm.org/blog/2012/Sep/24/c-s-lewis-good-and-bad
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#11
I don't know if that's what everyone thinks of as dualism, but I agree (for a change) with Lewis.

And I agree that you're interpretation of dualism in our body is the same thing in pint-size. Roughly the reason I hate discussions of dichotomy (or it's twin sister trichotomy, which also includes soul in the mix.) You're still deciding who rules. If it is our job to rule, then we're right back to deciding who the good guy is and who is the bad guy between me and God.

God is supremely sovereign whether we accept that or not.

And we must decrease that he increases, so why bother figuring out which parts of me is me? Me belongs to him. All of me!

Dualism, at any level, is the same fiction as "The force be with you." It is fiction!
I think I am saying the same thing Lynn. Holy Spirit rules through our spirit, but we must identify with the death of Jesus through the Cross, and the resurrection life through "walking in Spirit, and living as Spirit.

Do you disagree? That would be He increases and we decrease would it not?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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113
#12
So what got you thinking about this? Dual spin cycles on the washer?
No, lol, though I might go downstairs and meditate on it. Think it will help?

PennEd mentioned it in a post in the Not by works thread.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#13
Dualism is major in the occult world

How so? The only occult thing I've ever been in contact with is ouiji boards as a kid....don't do...and horoscopes, again as a kid.

Thankfully the Lord rescued me early in the twenties. :)
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#14
This is the website that I took the portion of Lewis's book from.

~http://www.epm.org/blog/2012/Sep/24/c-s-lewis-good-and-bad

I'd have to re-read the book to get into what Lewis was getting at with this. not necessarily what he believes

The two powers, or spirits, or gods—the good one and the bad one—are supposed to be quite independent. They both existed from all eternity. Neither of them made the other, neither of them has any more right than the other to call itself God

I think he's just stating the view of dualism not necessarily what he believes

 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#15
I'd have to re-read the book to get into what Lewis was getting at with this. not necessarily what he believes

The two powers, or spirits, or gods—the good one and the bad one—are supposed to be quite independent. They both existed from all eternity. Neither of them made the other, neither of them has any more right than the other to call itself God

I think he's just stating the view of dualism not necessarily what he believes

Yes, this is exactly what he is doing. I apologize if my post wasn't clear enough. His last sentence was his conclusion.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#16
How so? The only occult thing I've ever been in contact with is ouiji boards as a kid....don't do...and horoscopes, again as a kid.

Thankfully the Lord rescued me early in the twenties. :)
my twenties, not the 1920's lol
 
Aug 17, 2017
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#17
I've found in my studies of new age philosophy. That duelism is used alot often to depict a masuine or a feminine side or a ying and yang aswell as the new age philosophy in say star wars "the force" this is used as a distraction from christ to divert followers away from christ.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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113
#18
Never got into star wars. Now am glad I didn't. I can get confused rather easily at my age. :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,760
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#19
Dualism means the belief that there are two equal and independent powers at the back of everything, one of them good and the other bad, and that this universe is the battlefield in which they fight out an endless war.
Dualism is rooted in Zoroastrianism (the ancient religion of Persia):

"However it is of some interest to make a mention that while Zoroastrianism, is monotheistic, there is the “dualism” aspect in the faith that I will now discuss. Dualism is the concept of opposing forces of Good and Evil in the World. In Zoroastrianism this is seen in the ongoing battle between Good (Ahura Mazda) and Evil (Angra Mainyu) within the universe. It is important to understand that Angra Mainyu is not God‘s equal opposite, rather that Angra Mainyu is the destructive energy that opposes God’s creative energy. This creative energy is called Spenta Mainyu. God created a pure world through his creative energy, which Angra Mainyu continues to attack, making it impure. Aging, sickness, famine, natural disasters, death and so on are attributed to this."

This is not what the Bible teaches at all. Satan -- a created being -- was the highest angel in Heaven who wanted to be above God, and worshiped as God. He was cast out of God's Heaven (along with all the other rebel angels) and all of them will be cast down to the earth before the reign of the Antichrist.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#20
dont take dualism too far its gnostic origin........... its basically like the inner u is spirit and its all good, and the flesh is just naturally evil......... i can see where the gnostics got this, from romans 7 and 1 john and they just took it too far. to the extreme............ good and evil 50 50.
truth is good beats evil 100%
 
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