Isaiah 61:7 Instead of your shame....

[trofimus]

American view? I'm an American and never believed that. Neither has the majority of Christians I've ever known. It is a false teaching, which can be taught and believed anywhere, not a view held by a nation.
Always funny how much Pride 'Christian's from ither countries get in bashing Christians from the US. It very much matches the secular worldview of bashing America. Hmm...
Also, many in Africa hold this view as well.

Not American in the meaning "every American believes that", but American in the meaning "American preachers, missionaries etc are spreading this view around the world, not French ones, not German ones, not Chinese ones, its from the USA, originally".

Africa got it... from American missionaries, too.

 

[Grace777x70]

First Christians had everything together, like communism. Thats how they got "many houses" etc. With persecution.

The American view "I will be rich because I am a Christian" is actually very unbiblical... and I think thats what Prince and similar ones to him are saying.

I agree with you with the mentality of the carnal/fleshly/natural thinking Christian church and it has many forms but we still don't throw out the baby with the dirty water.

However you are dead wrong about what Prince says about riches. This OP is not about Prince as everyone always wants to make it out to be but I will address this issue.

The purpose of the OP is to up lift up the goodness of God towards us in every situation. To encourage the believer that God is for them and will bring life to them in their situation whether it's from the enemy or from themselves.

If people have an honest mind - they can read this about what is truly being said by Prince so that there can be no "twisting" of what is being said.

Without this "context" - all kinds of things can be mis-applied and what is really being said can be distorted. And then again - people are free to dis-agree too.

Quote:


Joseph Prince has been preaching on true success for years and I don’t have the space here to give you anything more than a taste. But what I do have is a list of 12 quotes taken from Unmerited Favor. I present these quotes simply to get believers thinking about a subject that has been considered taboo for too long:

1. “Success is not what you have, but rather who you have.” (p.3)

2. “God has no problem with you having money, but He does not want money to have you!” (p.27)

3. “There is no such thing as a ‘prosperity gospel.’ There is only one gospel and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (p.29)

4. “When the little boy brought his five loaves and two fishes to Jesus, did He gobble them up and say, ‘I am giving you a lesson in poverty?’ Of course not!… Jesus did not feed the multitudes with just enough food. He blessed them with more than enough food. He is the God of more than enough and that is His style. Likewise, Jesus wants to bless you with more than enough, so that you can be a blessing to others.” (p.238)

5. “The Lord blessed Abraham so that he could be a blessing to others… You cannot be a blessing to those around you – your loved ones, local church, community and the poor – if you are not blessed by the Lord first.” (p.231)

6. “Religion is blinding. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you sick to teaching you character and patience. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you poor, so that you will learn humility. It sounds noble, doesn’t it? But these are LIES from the pit of hell! Let me tell you this: It is the devil who wants you sick and poor, but the God I know paid a heavy price to redeem you from the curse of sickness and poverty!” (p.30)

7. “The more occupied you are with Jesus, the more money follows after you! Now why is that? It is simply because when you seek first the kingdom of God, and put Jesus, His righteousness (not your righteousness), His joy and His peace as your first priority, God’s Word promises you that ALL the material things that you need will be added to you.” (pp.233-4)

8. “Don’t love money and use people. Use money to love people.” (p.234)

9. “The secret to walking in the blessing of Abraham in your life is to stop trying to deserve it.” (p.240)

10. “The irony is that if you were to examine the lives of those believers who fight against the teaching that God blesses His children with more than enough, you would see that they have no problems with doing their best to secure a nice home and give their children the best education money can buy…

You see, they have no problem with accumulating wealth for themselves and living well, but they have a problem when we tell them that financial success is from God. They would rather believe in their self-efforts and say that their success is ‘self-made,’ than give God the credit.” (p.232)

11. “There are no ‘money problems,’ only ‘idea problems.’” (p.308)

12. “Don’t be afraid to use the word ‘prosperous.’ It’s God’s promise in the Bible.” (p.207)

I don’t know about you, but I read these quotes and think “sounds reasonable to me.” Yet I know that others will react strenuously against this merely because it’s politically incorrect for Christians to even discuss these things, or because they think we’re better off poor and sick (even while they’re working hard to save money and stay healthy).

Unquote:

Here is the rest of the article for anyone interested.

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/08/08/joseph-prince-on-prosperity-and-success/

 

[joaniemarie]

I agree with you with the mentality of the carnal/fleshly/natural thinking Christian church and it has many forms but we still don't throw out the baby with the dirty water.

However you are dead wrong about what Prince says about riches. This OP is not about Prince as everyone always wants to make it out to be but I will address this issue.

The purpose of the OP is to up lift up the goodness of God towards us in every situation. To encourage the believer that God is for them and will bring life to them in their situation whether it's from the enemy or from themselves.

If people have an honest mind - they can read this about what is truly being said by Prince so that there can be no "twisting" of what is being said.

Without this "context" - all kinds of things can be mis-applied and what is really being said can be distorted. And then again - people are free to dis-agree too.

Quote:


Joseph Prince has been preaching on true success for years and I don’t have the space here to give you anything more than a taste. But what I do have is a list of 12 quotes taken from Unmerited Favor. I present these quotes simply to get believers thinking about a subject that has been considered taboo for too long:

1. “Success is not what you have, but rather who you have.” (p.3)

2. “God has no problem with you having money, but He does not want money to have you!” (p.27)

3. “There is no such thing as a ‘prosperity gospel.’ There is only one gospel and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (p.29)

4. “When the little boy brought his five loaves and two fishes to Jesus, did He gobble them up and say, ‘I am giving you a lesson in poverty?’ Of course not!… Jesus did not feed the multitudes with just enough food. He blessed them with more than enough food. He is the God of more than enough and that is His style. Likewise, Jesus wants to bless you with more than enough, so that you can be a blessing to others.” (p.238)

5. “The Lord blessed Abraham so that he could be a blessing to others… You cannot be a blessing to those around you – your loved ones, local church, community and the poor – if you are not blessed by the Lord first.” (p.231)

6. “Religion is blinding. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you sick to teaching you character and patience. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you poor, so that you will learn humility. It sounds noble, doesn’t it? But these are LIES from the pit of hell! Let me tell you this: It is the devil who wants you sick and poor, but the God I know paid a heavy price to redeem you from the curse of sickness and poverty!” (p.30)

7. “The more occupied you are with Jesus, the more money follows after you! Now why is that? It is simply because when you seek first the kingdom of God, and put Jesus, His righteousness (not your righteousness), His joy and His peace as your first priority, God’s Word promises you that ALL the material things that you need will be added to you.” (pp.233-4)

8. “Don’t love money and use people. Use money to love people.” (p.234)

9. “The secret to walking in the blessing of Abraham in your life is to stop trying to deserve it.” (p.240)

10. “The irony is that if you were to examine the lives of those believers who fight against the teaching that God blesses His children with more than enough, you would see that they have no problems with doing their best to secure a nice home and give their children the best education money can buy…

You see, they have no problem with accumulating wealth for themselves and living well, but they have a problem when we tell them that financial success is from God. They would rather believe in their self-efforts and say that their success is ‘self-made,’ than give God the credit.” (p.232)

11. “There are no ‘money problems,’ only ‘idea problems.’” (p.308)

12. “Don’t be afraid to use the word ‘prosperous.’ It’s God’s promise in the Bible.” (p.207)

I don’t know about you, but I read these quotes and think “sounds reasonable to me.” Yet I know that others will react strenuously against this merely because it’s politically incorrect for Christians to even discuss these things, or because they think we’re better off poor and sick (even while they’re working hard to save money and stay healthy).

Unquote:

Here is the rest of the article for anyone interested.

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/08/08/joseph-prince-on-prosperity-and-success/

Thank you for that Bruce. I wish to have the ability to find the links the way you and others do here but for now I'm just happy to re-post what is posted and it works. I'll use this again. Blessings!!

 

[joaniemarie]

Up until a few years ago., it has been to my way of thinking (and many of the Christians around my time) to exalt poverty as a virtue. I've since learned differently as I grew to realize we humans can do pride in any position of life we find ourselves in. I was proud in my poverty as much as anyone has ever been in their wealth. Both are issues of the pride of life.

Our family had such a reverence for poverty that we had pictures up in our home of poverty and it's simplicity. OK., in one way it was an appreciation of the simplicity of life and I still like to live like that. But we took it further than that and boasted in our "Christian" ability to be in poverty and show being thankful. The problem comes when we wear it like a badge and in wearing our poverty badge., decided those who lived higher than than that and didn't sell all they had and join the poor living in poverty too were of less spiritual value.

There is nothing virtuous about poverty.

There is nothing virtuous about being rich.., or middle class.

It's what we do with the things God gives us that counts if it is to be of virtue. If we use anything we have as a spring board to consume it upon our lust to be prideful and draw attention to us and not to Jesus that is always wrong.

 

[joaniemarie]

It's also true that humans can dig a hole for all of their habits in life so deep that they can hardly get out from under them. I've discovered God will not force me to think differently. If my heels are dug in so deep in the comfort of the known and familiar of my own definition of virtuosity He will not force me to come out. Despite how sad and one sided a person can be living., the human heart without the power of the Holy Spirit leading., can find a "comfort zone" and stay their until they die and leave this planet.

I've seen that God will not force Christians from their place of limited comfort zones., and will love and be with them even if it is not the best He has to offer., He will still be there as much as the believer allows. He never forces Himself on us. He won't force us to believe He will love us and bless us even more than we can ask or think.

I've also discovered we actually get what we believe for and although we are challenged each day by the Holy Spirit to see more of Jesus., if we refuse to believe there is even more of Him that could be lived out in our lives., He won't show out in us any more than we allow. Many Christians don't know this.