“And they fortified Jerusalem unto the broad wall.” -- a conversation

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Depleted

Guest
#1
The Lord seems to be answering an IRL question I've been struggling with for the last couple of months in odd ways. (Does he do anything in normal ways? lol)

I'm coming to a resolution on it already, but thought it would be good to discuss together.

Note: Discuss. A different word than argue and a different word than teach. So, if you can only argue or teach, find a new post now.

I'd like a conversation, and I'd like it a little deeper than don't watch TV and don't listen to "ungodly" music.

This is about “And they fortified Jerusalem unto the broad wall” and "be of in the world, but not of it."

Sometimes that's harder than it seems. And often it's because we are led on a path that enters entire landscapes of the world-over-the-Lord ages ago. Yet this is our path the Lord has given us.
-- If we need counseling, most of the skilled counselors are humanists.
-- If we we want to help our communities politically, most politicians are worldly.
-- If we want to go into the arts, most of that field is run by worldly people. And most of the artists and crafters bought into it.
-- If we want to teach students, go into non-profits work, and even unions, they are of the world.

Does that mean don't do any of that? If you believe that then the world already won for you. God has put many of us on paths where we must be of the world, but not in it. And it very much means we have to know where to step without it blowing up in our face.

Now, I know, most will immediately go with "stay out of it all together," but "in the world" really means "in the world!" So "stay out" isn't godly advice. It's a knee-jerk reaction.

I've made an impractical decision in the last couple of days that both thrills me (because I know it is God working this out in me) and terrifies me (because the odds of it working just drastically dropped and I've been working this out for over a decade.) It's based on all of this, and now it's time to trust the Lord once again. I don't know if it will work out like I hope. But I do know it will work out like God planned. So I seek comfort from my bros. (And to me, bros is a nongender word.) Bros who have already pulled it off or are in the process of pulling it off in the Lord.

So, how has this worked in your life? And what has the Lord done for you? Personal failure is an option, as long as we know it is not failing God.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#2
Not exactly sure what you are looking for, but for years I have been working "in" the world in various capacities. For me "not being of it" means never to compromise my values.

For instance, I was on a school board which is very much in the world, but in one closed session when something was discussed that was not legal to do so, I spoke up against it and was told to "stop making waves". I then just said I could not be a part of that meeting and walked out. Yet, I stayed on the board, helping with what was needed. Why throw the baby out with the bath water.....?

To me it is all in keeping your values and honesty intact. This seems to be where you see such a difference between godly and ungodly people.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#3
My occupation was nursing. Many opportunities to minister in this field.

Theres the 7 mountain doctrine that speaks of what you are seeing.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#4
Not exactly sure what you are looking for, but for years I have been working "in" the world in various capacities. For me "not being of it" means never to compromise my values.

For instance, I was on a school board which is very much in the world, but in one closed session when something was discussed that was not legal to do so, I spoke up against it and was told to "stop making waves". I then just said I could not be a part of that meeting and walked out. Yet, I stayed on the board, helping with what was needed. Why throw the baby out with the bath water.....?

To me it is all in keeping your values and honesty intact. This seems to be where you see such a difference between godly and ungodly people.
That's exactly what I mean -- what to do when the world's ways aren't the Lord's ways. Fight or flight. And how do we know what to do when? And is there a third choice I don't know about? (Because not really good on flight, although I just did that, and my fight is good but doesn't really bring about change... other than me getting angry, which isn't good change. lol)
 
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Depleted

Guest
#5
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Miri

Guest
#6
There has been numerous times over the years, where I have failed to cut corners,
at work despite being told to do so and get on with the work, targets and service standards
are more important. There has been numerous instances where I have pointed out
something isn't quite right.

Each time I've been berated for not getting through the work quickly enough,
for being behind. In all honestly I just could not do a sloppy job. That accuracy has
meant that I've discovered lots of previous mistakes that others have made, or
overlooked in the past. Mistakes that needed rectifying as they cause a lot of
problems later. Each time my line manager has just got frustrated at me for finding
them and for slowing the work down even more and told me I had to fix it, rather
than the case worker who make the mistakes etc. Which again has slowed down my
own work.

Each time I've been justified as later on, higher management have realised those
mistakes and short cuts are happening too much and work is not getting done properly
and so procedures have changed and suddenly everyone else has been told to do it
the way I've been doing it. I got no credit for it though as that has always got swept
under the carpet as well!

A recent example. There is a specific case we deal with on my team which does not have
service standards. Its still very important and delays cause problems. But because it's not
measured work, for the last 5 years, caseworker have been told to put them to the bottom
of the priority.

I did a little but I always made sure none of these cases of mine, was left more than a
couple of months. It use to drive my manager nuts that I wouldn't leave them.

Then i moved to part time work and started working on different teams, then last year i
was moved back on my original team and was given the job of looking at all these old
cases which everyone else had left! The oldest goes back to 2013!

These old cases are causing big problems now and questions are being asked as to why
they were left.

None of them are mine I kept on top of mine. But suddenly my manager who previously
critised me, is now begging me to look at all these old cases as soon as possible.

I've cleared about half of them so far. Unfortunately 5 years of documents and files to
go through mean a lot of paperwork to get through for each case and to continue to work
from where it was left off.

Plus there are fresh cases coming in all the time to keep up with.

I think part of this is just my attention to detail, my character, but part of it is also that I just
cannot bring myself to do a sloppy poor job, it doesn't feel right at all. It feels
like I'm being dishonest and cheating.

As I say it always gets justified in the end. But I never get any recognition for doing
the job properly. I just seem to get to clear up everyone's mess while they get the pats
on the back for meeting service standards.

I think that is the way the world is generally.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#7
That's exactly what I mean -- what to do when the world's ways aren't the Lord's ways. Fight or flight. And how do we know what to do when? And is there a third choice I don't know about? (Because not really good on flight, although I just did that, and my fight is good but doesn't really bring about change... other than me getting angry, which isn't good change. lol)
I'm rarely angry - and for me it is just a gentle flight. But flight it is. Anger is not good. Truth always comes in gentle ways "The wisdom from above is peaceable...etc." But I'm never afraid to speak the truth, and point out errors. There are times when I think you must let there be error (as long as you are not a part of it) without judging. Such discernment is needed at those times. The Holy Spirit inspires you to speak or not to speak.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#9

This is about “And they fortified Jerusalem unto the broad wall” and "be of in the world, but not of it."
i was reading the passage i'm quoting below this morning, not 'on purpose' but having followed a string of marginal cross-references in my bible from the book that i had originally started out reading.

what's in bold in this post really stuck out to me, at the end there, and i'm still turning it over in my mind - just seeing your thread title,
the (em)bold(en)ed part again, made me think, hey this really is relevant am sure:

If you do away with the yoke of oppression, with the pointing finger and malicious talk,and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday.

The Lord will guide you always; He will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be like a well-watered garden, like a spring whose waters never fail.

Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins and will raise up the age-old foundations; you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls, Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

(Isaiah 58:9-12)

isn't the first paragraph, vv. 9-10, like "be in the world but not of the world" and isn't the last paragraph, v. 12, like "and they fortified Jerusalem unto the broad wall" ?

and how ? (!)



 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
#10
something fun like sports is not worldly in my opinion.
what i consider worldly is sinful things.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#11
That's exactly what I mean -- what to do when the world's ways aren't the Lord's ways. Fight or flight. And how do we know what to do when? And is there a third choice I don't know about? (Because not really good on flight, although I just did that, and my fight is good but doesn't really bring about change... other than me getting angry, which isn't good change. lol)

i was subcontracted for a while to regularly audit a particular business's sites. it was good work, but at a certain point i started getting pressure from my contractor to do some unethical things with some of the numbers, things that would violate the integrity of the audits, and i refused. i cancelled an audit that the contractor tampered with. i just kept doing audits the right way. one day i showed up to do my work and another auditor was there, who told me that our boss had said i quit.

so here's the thing - i was going to quit. that was my initial reaction. i was wishy-washy about it, though, partly because i had just bought a house and this work paid very well, and partly because i also have this competing ethic that i should be 'working as though for the Lord' and doing this job with integrity instead of the way my contractor was pressuring me to do it. i felt that the Lord had brought me to this position for His reasons, and that part of that was doing a service for the business itself that my boss had been contracted by. i felt more responsibility to them than to my supervisor, and i thought maybe another part of His reason for me to find myself where i was might be to counteract the corruption i was suspecting was here. the job itself is an ethical one, so i didn't feel like it was something i should leave on principle. on the other hand, on principle i knew i was being asked to do things that were wrong. should i stay or should i go? i waffled, fumed, and threw myself at the work while i thought.

but God made up my mind, because i had been "fired" - but not really. my contractor had told the labor department that i had quit - so i wasn't eligible for unemployment while i tried to get new work. which was an issue, because, new house payments - one i had bought at a bargain because it needed expensive repair and improvement that i'd also promptly put myself in the hole to accomplish as we had moved in. but God worked everything for good - when i went to the unemployment office & job placement services, i explained the circumstances where i had been and that i had been pressured to corrupt data. they not only changed my termination status and approved me for aid, but reported this to the BBB and opened an investigation.

all i had done was tell the truth, both with my actions performing audits and my recounting to the government what the facts of my employment had been as i understood them. God took care of the rest - from that point, i left the auditing business altogether, being somewhat disgusted, and landed in an apprenticeship at a pipe organ builder's shop, wonderfully, having no idea that such a thing even existed in my town until a few minutes into my interview there. this place, yeah, so many blessings received and given while i was there, obviously where God's plan for me to be was. God took the burden of 'what to do about this??' off of me, was a shield for me when i thought i might miss mortgage payments, provided for me and had prepared a place for me to go. AND used me as an arrow to do His justice, all the while. i trust Him :)
i'm not always good at trusting Him, but i trust Him always

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
so, synopsis i guess:
i worked in the world but not in the world, not being of it. in adversity, i just kept doing the 'not of this world' thing. when i didn't fight, God fought for me. i just try to do what my hands find to do as though for Him, however i understand that to apply to whatever it is before me that needs to be done. i know i'm not very good at it, but that's the approach i've been taking - whether it's a "good" approach or the "best" approach .. ? it's what i've found to work with ;)
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#12
That's quite a dramatic story Bones....with a pipe dream ending...:p

[video=youtube;ho9rZjlsyYY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho9rZjlsyYY[/video]
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#14
i was reading the passage i'm quoting below this morning, not 'on purpose' but having followed a string of marginal cross-references in my bible from the book that i had originally started out reading.

what's in bold in this post really stuck out to me, at the end there, and i'm still turning it over in my mind - just seeing your thread title,
the (em)bold(en)ed part again, made me think, hey this really is relevant am sure:

If you do away with the yoke of oppression, with the pointing finger and malicious talk,and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday.

The Lord will guide you always; He will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be like a well-watered garden, like a spring whose waters never fail.

Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins and will raise up the age-old foundations; you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls, Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

(Isaiah 58:9-12)

isn't the first paragraph, vv. 9-10, like "be in the world but not of the world" and isn't the last paragraph, v. 12, like "and they fortified Jerusalem unto the broad wall" ?

and how ? (!)

I've been dealing with the final stages of publishing my novel -- polishing my query and compiling a list of agents. And I've been checking out agents one last time.

Boy! I don't mind working with nonbelievers, but hate it when they keep espousing anything but the gospel. So I've been having to decide what to do about the ones who do that. I only get but so many chances of winning an agent's heart.

Notice anything wrong with that last sentence? There is. "Chance." God is sovereign so nothing is left to chance.

And God's been teaching me that for years, but I keep learning it lesson by lesson, instead of getting the overall lesson.

Like you, everything keeps pointing to God giving me this lesson again and again. I think he's trying to teach it to me before I do something stupid, instead of after this time.

And the lesson is God's first/God is sovereign/I'm in his kingdom, I'm in the world, but not of it/knock it off, idiot, and let God do his thing.

In the last 32 hours, I was reading John 3:1-21 in my new reading of John, a friend told me, "Do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I AM your God; I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with My righteous right hand," and Spurgeon wrote this for his Evening devotional today:

“And they fortified Jerusalem unto the broad wall.” Neh. 3:8

Cities well fortified have broad walls, and so had Jerusalem in her glory. The New Jerusalem must, in like manner, be surrounded and preserved by a broad wall of nonconformity to the world, and separation from its customs and spirit. The tendency of these days break down the holy barrier, and make the distinction between the church and the world merely nominal. Professors are no longer strict and Puritanical, questionable literature is read on all hands, frivolous pastimes are currently indulged, and a general laxity threatens to deprive the Lord’s peculiar people of those sacred singularities which separate them from sinners. It will be an ill day for the church and the world when the proposed amalgamation shall be complete, and the sons of God and the daughters of men shall be as one: then shall another deluge of wrath be ushered in. Beloved reader, be it your aim in heart, in word, in dress, in action to maintain the broad wall, remembering that the friendship of this world is enmity against God.

The broad wall afforded a pleasant place of resort for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, from which they could command prospects of the surrounding country. This reminds us of the Lord’s exceeding broad commandments, in which we walk at liberty in communion with Jesus, overlooking the scenes of earth, and looking out towards the glories of heaven. Separated from the world, and denying ourselves all ungodliness and fleshly lusts, we are nevertheless not in prison, nor restricted within narrow bounds; nay, we walk at liberty, because we keep his precepts. Come, reader, this evening walk with God in his statutes. As friend met friend upon the city wall, so meet thou thy God in the way of holy prayer and meditation. The bulwarks of salvation thou hast a right to traverse, for thou art a freeman of the royal burgh, a citizen of the metropolis of the universe.


Think maybe God is trying to teach us something?

On thing I know now. I won't be querying extremely worldly agents, even if that means my novel never gets published. God is in control. If it's his plan the novel is published, it will be published. And if it's not? Well? I trust him to give me peace for that.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#15
It made me think of the gulf between the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus suffered
greatly but he got the better portion in the end. The gulf between them was apparent
both in life and death.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#16
Isn't that what we have in common -- scripture? And doctrine from scripture?
yes, I guess I'm overthinking. It would be a teaching or more a revelation for our times.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#17

♫♪
If you see damages in the wall,
why don't you rebuild it
so Jerusalem can stand strong?
Nobody else seems to care at all.
Well, why don't you fix it?
I know you know right from wrong!
♪♪


[video=youtube;Khm3mkzJudk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khm3mkzJudk[/video]
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#18

♫♪
If you see damages in the wall,
why don't you rebuild it
so Jerusalem can stand strong?
Nobody else seems to care at all.
Well, why don't you fix it?
I know you know right from wrong!
♪♪


[video=youtube;Khm3mkzJudk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khm3mkzJudk[/video]
That's the thing that frustrates me. How to fix it!
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,587
1,047
113
#19
It made me think of the gulf between the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus suffered
greatly but he got the better portion in the end. The gulf between them was apparent
both in life and death.
and Lazarus had a name, where the rich man? never does. what does this mean?