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Thread: Lets talk about Paul

  1. #321
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    phil,

    perhaps you will or can expound on your own dialogue with us here in the Thread,
    on what you deem, important Pauline issues?

    we've just come-on the 'thread', so if you have already done this, we will understand
    not caring to 'repeat' again...

  2. #322
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by phil36 View Post
    Hi Rainrider,

    I've been reading through your posts, However, I have to admit that they seem somewhat lacking. What I mean is what was Paul's view of our union with Christ, how did he use scripture to show this? What was his view on Justification how did he use the OT to show this and prove his point?, what was Paul's view on the relationship of justification and sanctification? and the list goes on? You don't answer any of these and yet you are setting yourself up as an expert on Pauline studies.

    Since your are reading Pauline studies could your give me a synopsis on the New perspective, if you have been doing Pauline studies you will certainly be able to describe it and give a good reason to either believe it or refute it?

    Also what do you think about Peter recognising Paul's letters as on the same level as the OT therefore scripture NT, is it a problem of cannonization or transmission or is it a problem of circulation? I am sure we all await your dialogue on these important Pauline issues.
    Two things I must say. First I don't know everything, and never said I came close to it.
    The other is that being dyslexic, has left me at a disadvantage, in many ways. My eyes will not stay focused for long, so many of my post can take me from 2 to 3 hours to write. It has also left me with a vary small number of teachers to work with. Most will not work with you if you can't work at their pace, so I have been blessed with some Teachers that have worked with, at my pace, and are willing to over look when I get a letter wrong. Like if I place a d when it should be a b. Or a w rather than an m, and so on. or get hem backwards in the word. The most common is teh, rather than the.
    At the same time, it has meant that I have spent most of the last 15years studying the Torah only. So I may a bit new at the NT, yet that doesn't mean in my mind I don't have an understanding of what I read, or say. Also, as is a custom of mine, I try hard not to put my thoughts and words into a study. As this leads mostly leads to disruption, and can fill a threat with so muct that doesn't need to be there.
    Don't get me wrong, I study every week now with pastors from different walks of faith. I now am able to keep up in many online classes, and ever teach one of my own. It is mostly for others that have dyslexia, and is my way of helping the Rabbis that have taken their time to help me. What you ask for, is not something I will open the door to. You see, I learn sometime back that for me to open that door, leads to overly long post, on both sides. As it may take me up to 3 days just some I have seen, I do my best to keep my post as short as I can. That is done out of respect for any that may have the same problem as I do.
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    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    it's like a miracle, you being able to 'post and say' the things that you can,
    especially at the disadvantage that you have shared with all of us...

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by oldethennew View Post
    it's like a miracle, you being able to 'post and say' the things that you can,
    especially at the disadvantage that you have shared with all of us...
    HaShem gives us what we need to do what He leads us to do. It seems (at lest to me) that He does best work when we must rely on His strength, and not our own.
    MarcR and Magenta like this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  5. #325
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    HaShem gives us what we need to do what He leads us to do. It seems (at lest to me) that He does best work when we must rely on His strength, and not our own.


    INDEED!!!!!!!
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    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Some see the book of Corinthians as a reply to the church. Paul had written to them before, as will be seen in 5:9 I think it is. They had replied asking him about a number of points. His answer is the following book.

    1Co 1:1 This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from our brother Sosthenes.


    1Co 1:2 I am writing to God’s church in Corinth, to you who have been called by God to be his own holy people. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus, just as he did for all people everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.

    Corinth was a major port city. Controlling the rout between Roman and Asia. This being what it was, they would also have had many temples to many gods. Pagan life would been the norm in this city. Yet some, (the % I have never found) were made holy, when they turned their lives over to HaShem. A not so small task, when one thinks of the danger that followed not after this letter was written. There was a teaching I once heard that said, (their lord and ours) was speaking to calling on Zuz or what ever god was close by. They used the passage, like 1Cor.9:21 to make their point. This however shows a misleading intent on the part of any that would teach this way. Paul was telling us, Yeshua was their Lord, just as much as He is ours.


    1Co 1:3 May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.


    1Co 1:4 I always thank my God for you and for the gracious gifts he has given you, now that you belong to Christ Jesus.


    1Co 1:5 Through him, God has enriched your church in every way—with all of your eloquent words and all of your knowledge.
    1Co 1:6 This confirms that what I told you about Christ is true.
    1Co 1:7 Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1Co 1:8 He will keep you strong to the end so that you will be free from all blame on the day when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.
    1Co 1:9 God will do this, for he is faithful to do what he says, and he has invited you into partnership with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The opening of this letter gives us a look at just well the church in Corinth was doing, at lest in some ways. The idea of eloquent words and knowledge, shows a great blessing, as most follows of that time were poor, and may not have had an education. Today, as we know the higher an education one gets, the better they can articulate their thoughts. Some wish to use this, as a way to belittle others, in hopes of showing how great they think they are.
    Paul on the other hand used this blessing to show that what He had told them before hand was true, and also to show reason for them to trust him. In this manner, they would be antagonized, and rebel.
    1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.












    1Co 1:11 For some members of Chloe’s household have told me about your quarrels, my dear brothers and sisters.
    1Co 1:12 Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter,” or “I follow only Christ.”

    The leaders of the church should have been the ones to bring this to Paul's attention. In hopes of finding a way to stop the infighting. If we were to replace the names of the men with the denomination one follows, we would be facing the same thing today. As one commentator puts it, "When we answer with a denomination to the question, 'what do you follow' we show 2 things. A lack of understanding of Yeshua, and an alliance to man rather than Yeshua." When asked his answer to this question, he replied, "I am a born again believer, walking in the word as best I can. Following all that we are told, though at times I do come up short in this."
    In rely to this, another commentator said, "It is much the same as placing them self above others, and wishing to invoke the name of Yeshua to do so. Showing that they will hear the words of others, even when the words are wise, and meant to help."
    1Co 1:13 Has Christ been divided into factions? Was I, Paul, crucified for you? Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul? Of course not!

    Although some may have taken offense by this, Paul's point would seem to be that they were not baptized in the name of any man, or then name of a church. Though some wish to teach they have an advantage over other church's, they fail to understand that we are in the same body, that body is the body of Yeshua.
    1Co 1:14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
    1Co 1:15 for now no one can say they were baptized in my name.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Are you saying that Hebrew scholars who write commentaries have not got it correct and you have? Just interested to know.

    NOT AT ALL!!!!



    I have not seen a single commentary by anyone (and I have read many) who expound on the double takes in the Hebrew text.

    I have seen many scholars whose work I deeply respect, and whose scholarship far exceeds mine miss or fail to comment on how Hebrew idiom effects the meaning of certain verses in both the Hebrew and the Koine texts.

    Could you explain double takes in the Hebrews text and how not understanding how Hebrew idiom effects the meaning of certain verses in both the Hebrew and the Koine texts.

    Where would you find those prescriptions for rightly dividing the word.?

    I understand that parables where designed to hide spiritual truths but have not heard of that requirement.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Some see the book of Corinthians as a reply to the church. Paul had written to them before, as will be seen in 5:9 I think it is. They had replied asking him about a number of points. His answer is the following book.

    I would see it as God’s answer .When he speaks he speaks to the whole church. What can be applied to those in that sect can be applied to all. He does not speak privately to one group. Once a person start separating it ,dividing the word of God from the same word the sky is the limit...
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  9. #329
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Some see the book of Corinthians as a reply to the church. Paul had written to them before, as will be seen in 5:9 I think it is. They had replied asking him about a number of points. His answer is the following book.

    1Co 1:1 This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from our brother Sosthenes.


    1Co 1:2 I am writing to God’s church in Corinth, to you who have been called by God to be his own holy people. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus, just as he did for all people everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.

    Corinth was a major port city. Controlling the rout between Roman and Asia. This being what it was, they would also have had many temples to many gods. Pagan life would been the norm in this city. Yet some, (the % I have never found) were made holy, when they turned their lives over to HaShem. A not so small task, when one thinks of the danger that followed not after this letter was written. There was a teaching I once heard that said, (their lord and ours) was speaking to calling on Zuz or what ever god was close by. They used the passage, like 1Cor.9:21 to make their point. This however shows a misleading intent on the part of any that would teach this way. Paul was telling us, Yeshua was their Lord, just as much as He is ours.


    1Co 1:3 May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.


    1Co 1:4 I always thank my God for you and for the gracious gifts he has given you, now that you belong to Christ Jesus.


    1Co 1:5 Through him, God has enriched your church in every way—with all of your eloquent words and all of your knowledge.
    1Co 1:6 This confirms that what I told you about Christ is true.
    1Co 1:7 Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1Co 1:8 He will keep you strong to the end so that you will be free from all blame on the day when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.
    1Co 1:9 God will do this, for he is faithful to do what he says, and he has invited you into partnership with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The opening of this letter gives us a look at just well the church in Corinth was doing, at lest in some ways. The idea of eloquent words and knowledge, shows a great blessing, as most follows of that time were poor, and may not have had an education. Today, as we know the higher an education one gets, the better they can articulate their thoughts. Some wish to use this, as a way to belittle others, in hopes of showing how great they think they are.
    Paul on the other hand used this blessing to show that what He had told them before hand was true, and also to show reason for them to trust him. In this manner, they would be antagonized, and rebel.
    1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.












    1Co 1:11 For some members of Chloe’s household have told me about your quarrels, my dear brothers and sisters.
    1Co 1:12 Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter,” or “I follow only Christ.”

    The leaders of the church should have been the ones to bring this to Paul's attention. In hopes of finding a way to stop the infighting. If we were to replace the names of the men with the denomination one follows, we would be facing the same thing today. As one commentator puts it, "When we answer with a denomination to the question, 'what do you follow' we show 2 things. A lack of understanding of Yeshua, and an alliance to man rather than Yeshua." When asked his answer to this question, he replied, "I am a born again believer, walking in the word as best I can. Following all that we are told, though at times I do come up short in this."
    In rely to this, another commentator said, "It is much the same as placing them self above others, and wishing to invoke the name of Yeshua to do so. Showing that they will hear the words of others, even when the words are wise, and meant to help."
    1Co 1:13 Has Christ been divided into factions? Was I, Paul, crucified for you? Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul? Of course not!

    Although some may have taken offense by this, Paul's point would seem to be that they were not baptized in the name of any man, or then name of a church. Though some wish to teach they have an advantage over other church's, they fail to understand that we are in the same body, that body is the body of Yeshua.
    1Co 1:14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
    1Co 1:15 for now no one can say they were baptized in my name.
    Sorry not sure how that happened. Maybe it just took to long so it posted on it's own. I really have no clue.


    1Co 1:16 (Oh yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas, but I don’t remember baptizing anyone else.)
    1Co 1:17 For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News—and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power.

    A dear friend of mine has this to say about the above. When anyone tells me something, and they speak for 30 minutes or so, using words that are not understood, I just go to sleep, then agree with them when my wife wakes me up. LOL It is this form of teaching that Paul may be speaking of.
    Then on the other hand, it has been said that the use of plain words, and not the use of legal jargon, is what wins hearts.
    1Co 1:18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.
    1Co 1:19 As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”

    Although Paul only quotes a part of Isa. 29:14, he makes the case that mans wisdom will always come up short. No matter how intelligent one may be, no matter how well the words are picked, if one is headed for damnation, they will seem and sound like running water.
    1Co 1:20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.

    I do so wish I could recall what it was called. No matter, I do remember the teaching of a wise old man, from Church history.
    At one time, philosophy was a religion of it's own. Built on the grounds of who had the best tail to tell, and could stand up in debate, to make their point. Mostly with the use of words to hard to understand for most, and put together in a way to cloud their unanswer. In other words, (at lest as he told us) An unanswer is what you we hear from most politicians, when they find they have backed into a corner, and to answer a question would only show they have no clue what they are talking of. I still think he made that word up.
    1Co 1:21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.
    1Co 1:22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom.
    1Co 1:23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.

    I first wish to point out that what comes after this, isn't my thoughts or words.
    One teaching on this that I have heard in a church, follows that the Jewish people can only believe works, and if there is no sign, then there is no Messiah. In their wisdom, they spent no telling how much time looking for a way to back this misplaced idea. It was found in the words of a Rabbi that said, Until Yeshua does the works of Messiah, we can't call him Messiah.
    What follows are my own thoughts and words.
    As with many things in the hearts of man, if we look long enough and hard enough, we can find in the words of others what we wish to find. When we look at the words of another, with no understanding of the heart behind it, we can make them say what every we wish. It is in my mind the thoughts of this Rabbi, (being an orthodox I am sure) that Yeshua didn't bring the long awaited and prayed for peace.
    When it comes to the Greeks, as pointed out above, they loved their philosophy.
    1Co 1:24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.














    1Co 1:25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.


    1Co 1:26 Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you.
    1Co 1:27 Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.

    Once more Paul makes note of the power of HaShem, by pointing out that before they turned to HaShem, through their faith in the works fo Yeshua, they were not see as much of anything by others. The Tanakh also makes this point. When we see that HaShem seemed to always pick the underdog to do his work. The weak to take a land that with out him, they would never have been able to. True wisdom, ( as was said by one teacher of mine) comes from ones own understanding, rather by wilingness to admit when you don't have all the answer's. Pride gets in the way of this, so give thanks to HaShem in your weakness, and let it be known it is only by His strength that you are able to do a thing.
    1Co 1:28 God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important.


    1Co 1:29 As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.


    1Co 1:30 God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin.


    1Co 1:31 Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD.”

    There was a person in my life that once asked, "Why do you speak with so much pride about not being able to read?"
    Truth is I read at around a 9th grade leave when my mind doesn't play trikes with letters, and words. When it does, I read at around a 1 grade level. The kicker to that, a thing I am awed by, When I read the Word, my mind never plays tricks, and the words are clear in my mind. It is the only book I can do this with. HaShem I think uses this disability to guide me away from things I may read that can be harmful to my walk with him. You see, when I read things about His word, like say The Miracle of the Scarlet Thread, it remained clear for the most part. Yet when I tried to read a book, that was meant to show me the truth faith, ( at lest by one church's standard) not one letter ever reviled it's self as what it should be. So yes I may boast, yet not of my own greatness, I boast of the Power fo HaShem, to work in us His will, if we simply let Him lead the way.
    MarcR likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  10. #330
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    I would see it as God’s answer .When he speaks he speaks to the whole church. What can be applied to those in that sect can be applied to all. He does not speak privately to one group. Once a person start separating it ,dividing the word of God from the same word the sky is the limit...
    You do make a valid point. Thank you for correcting my miss use of words.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1Co 2:1 When I first came to you, dear brothers and sisters,[fn] I didn’t use lofty words and impressive wisdom to tell you God’s secret plan.


    1Co 2:2 For I decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Jesus Christ, the one who was crucified.
    1Co 2:3 I came to you in weakness—timid and trembling.
    1Co 2:4 And my message and my preaching were very plain. Rather than using clever and persuasive speeches, I relied only on the power of the Holy Spirit.
    1Co 2:5 I did this so you would trust not in human wisdom but in the power of God.

    Paul, unlike many teachers of his day, and today for that matter, didn't wish to try and show how smart he was, or how big of words he could use. One commentator went as fair as to say that Paul mostly said more in 10 minutes than most today would say in an hour.
    As for my own thoughts on this passage, Paul understood that some may hear him that didn't not have his education, and may not understand clever wording.
    As Paul made clear, he relied on, or allowed the Spirit to speak through him. Rather than turn to his own thinking, and wisdom. Paul said he came in weakness, timid and trembling. This may well have been his way say that in our weakness, HaShem is able to show us His strength. Real power doesn't come from refined preaching, or logical persuasiveness. Rather from the message it's self. Using ones own understanding, often leads to misunderstanding, and misuse of scripture. More by the listener than the teacher.
    1Co 2:6 Yet when I am among mature believers, I do speak with words of wisdom, but not the kind of wisdom that belongs to this world or to the rulers of this world, who are soon forgotten.
    1Co 2:7 No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God—his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began.
    1Co 2:8 But the rulers of this world have not understood it; if they had, they would not have crucified our glorious Lord.
    1Co 2:9 That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.”

    The rulers Paul is talking of here are most likely, political leaders. As their words are often forgot almost as soon they have spoken them. spiritual leaders on the other hand, must always pick their words with care, and understanding. Knowing both the level of understanding, and the ability of their flocks. keeping their teachings with in the truth of the Word at all times. As their words may be passed on, or tested for truth, by the Word they teach of.
    1Co 2:10 But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets.
    1Co 2:11 No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit.
    1Co 2:12 And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us.

    I find it said that at lest one commemoration said, "It was to us, Paul is letting us know that only them that walked with Yeshua, and got the word from him were giving the truth. For us today, we may think we understand, only the Spirit no longer teaches us."
    For a person to think, or teach this, shows a lack of even trying to understand. As I do hope we all know, the word (we) points to any and all that follow Yeshua, being filled with the Spirit, and led in truth by the Spirit. To think that one can understand the Word by their own wisdom, or by secular means, is folly.
    1Co 2:13 When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.
    1Co 2:14 But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.
    1Co 2:15 Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others.
    1Co 2:16 For, “Who can know the LORD’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?” But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.







    Many times man learns things from a human prospective. Things learned in this manner, can not placed into a Spiritual Word. Just as the things the Spirit places on ones heart, can't be converted into human words or understanding. The one event in my life that has shown this to me in a way no words could ever hope, was my trip to Israel. That for me was never meant for anything other than to see the land, in hopes of finding a better understand of what Yeshua faced in His walk on this earth. I steeped into that trip, with a secular mind set.
    To explain the parts I know I can.
    I get off the plan, and for the first time in my life, I felt truly at peace, and at home. As we walked the land, heard the teachings of what went on in every place we stopped, something slowly changed in my. As my mind went from, "I already know that story", to "Hay I understand that story now." As the trip went on, it became,"So that's what HaShem has been trying to show me!" BY the time I was due to leave, I know that one day I had to return, only next time, I would not go with a group that didn't rush through everything. The Spiritual change that took place in my heart, is the part I can't place into words. My insight of the Word is a bit more clear, as well as my Spiritual understanding of it. Yet, I do find that the things I now see, that once was hidden from my heart, seem to be the things are so readily dismissed in today's teachings. As for my reason for using them in a forum like this, their are many that are anti-Septicemic, and don't know it. This leads to argument, and discord, that should be left for a more privet venue.
    Last edited by Rainrider; October 11th, 2017 at 03:12 AM.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  12. #332
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1Co 3:1 Dear brothers and sisters, when I was with you I couldn’t talk to you as I would to spiritual people. I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in the Christian life.
    1Co 3:2 I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready,
    1Co 3:3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world?
    1Co 3:4 When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world?

    This can leave on to think that the Corinthians had been studying the Word for some time. Some say Paul had spent 1 1/2 years with them before this letter was written. With in that time, they learned little about the Spiritual life, and how to walk in the Spirit. Another teaching is that they had been doing fine, as long as Paul was with them. When he left, others came in and disrupted their lives, leading them back into the ways of the world.
    He repeats his warning about claiming to follow a man, and not Yeshua. Today this would equate to the claim of denominations. No matter what the name on the door, it can do nothing for us. HaShem has done the work, and is still working for us, so by all rights, we should profess to following Him, and Him a lone.
    1Co 3:5 After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us.










    1Co 3:6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow.


    1Co 3:7 It’s not important who does the planting, or who does the watering. What’s important is that God makes the seed grow.
    1Co 3:8 The one who plants and the one who waters work together with the same purpose. And both will be rewarded for their own hard work.




    1Co 3:9 For we are both God’s workers. And you are God’s field. You are God’s building.

    Many times when one hears a broadcast from a pastor on tv, we hear I did this, I can do that, and other I's. As Paul makes clear it is not the person doing anything. HaShem is the one that has done everything they lay claim to. Some never slow down to give thanks for others that may ave a hand in helping others find salvation, or that may have helped to lay a foundation of trusting faithfulness.
    1Co 3:10 Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.




    1Co 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.
    1Co 3:12 Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw.




    1Co 3:13 But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value.

    Everyone will face the fire of judgment. The things we do today, will be purified by that fire. Much the way many things in Torah are, the fire will always remove unclean, or unholy things that may find there way into ones life. All of the wrong understanding, pride of being a member of this or that denomination, and so on. Those who teachings are true, and faithful will receive their reword, others may still be given salvation, only they may not receive any rewords at all.
    1Co 3:14 If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward.
    1Co 3:15 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.
    1Co 3:16 Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you?
    1Co 3:17 God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

    HaShem once lived in the Temple, the Arc of he covenant was his seat. Today we are the Temple, and our hearts should be His throne. If one desecrates the Temple, HaShem will destroy them. This can be done in many ways, from over eating, to neglecting ones own life, and body in any way that brings harm to it.
    1Co 3:18 Stop deceiving yourselves. If you think you are wise by this world’s standards, you need to become a fool to be truly wise.












    1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.”
    1Co 3:20
    And again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise; he knows they are worthless.”


    1Co 3:21 So don’t boast about following a particular human leader. For everything belongs to you—


    1Co 3:22 whether Paul or Apollos or Peter, or the world, or life and death, or the present and the future. Everything belongs to you,


    1Co 3:23 and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

    Paul is not telling us to act a fool, rather that we should give up what we have as for wisdom of this world. Salomon, once called the wisest King of the world, didn't become that by following in the ways of the world. He turned to HaShem, and allowed HaShem to work His will through him. We can be sure that Solomon prayed over every thing that came before him for judgment. Opening his heart and mind to will of HaShem, so that HaShem was the real King of Israel, and Solomon was nothing more than a way for HaShem to speak to His people. Let us always pray that our teachers, do the same, leaving a side their own thoughts, and understanding, that HaShem can use them, and us, to do His will, and not our own.
    MarcR likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  13. #333
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1Co 4:1
    So look at Apollos and me as mere servants of Christ who have been put in charge of explaining God’s mysteries.
    1Co 4:2
    Now, a person who is put in charge as a manager must be faithful.
    1Co 4:3
    As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point.
    1Co 4:4
    My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.

    All to often in life, we stand so strongly on what we think, never thinking that we as humans can be wrong no mater what we may think. Paul seems to telling us that even though he thinks he is doing the right thing, doesn't mean that he is. Paul even makes it clear that he doesn't trust his own judgment when come to this. Yet many in the world seem to trust their own thinking to the point of rejecting anyone that does not agree with them.

    1Co 4:5
    So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time—before the Lord returns. For he will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due.
    1Co 4:6
    Dear brothers and sisters, I have used Apollos and myself to illustrate what I’ve been saying. If you pay attention to what I have quoted from the Scriptures,you won’t be proud of one of your leaders at the expense of another.

    Paul notes his use of scripture, and not the use of self, when speaking to them. When one moves past what the Word tells u, do we not place our self, and our thoughts above the Word? When one names a teacher, putting their teachings out as better than another, we run the risk of discrediting the others. Even if both teach the word of Truth. One may well have a higher understanding, yet they both teach Truth.

    1Co 4:7

    For what gives you the right to make such a judgment? What do you have that God hasn’t given you? And if everything you have is from God, why boast as though it were not a gift?
    1Co 4:8

    You think you already have everything you need. You think you are already rich. You have begun to reign in God’s kingdom without us! I wish you really were reigning already, for then we would be reigning with you.
    1Co 4:9
    Instead, I sometimes think God has put us apostles on display, like prisoners of war at the end of a victor’s parade, condemned to die. We have become a spectacle to the entire world—to people and angels alike.

    Some teach that Paul is speaking of the "games" that were held in Rome. When followers were placed in combat with lions, and other deadly beast. Paul seen how this was being used to bring blessings to others, and would gladly have accepted this on himself.
    Yet another teaching on this is as follows. Paul seeing how some would pit one teacher against another, seen this as placing them on stage. Hoping for a good fight over what a passage means. This is done many times today, even in this forum. When one will not enter into argument they are seen as weak, even when they have seen that many of the "debates" turn to name calling, or belittling phrases, that are meant to be hidden.

    1Co 4:10
    Our dedication to Christ makes us look like fools, but you claim to be so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are so powerful! You are honored, but we are ridiculed.
    1Co 4:11

    Even now we go hungry and thirsty, and we don’t have enough clothes to keep warm. We are often beaten and have no home.
    1Co 4:12

    We work wearily with our own hands to earn our living. We bless those who curse us. We are patient with those who abuse us.
    1Co 4:13

    We appeal gently when evil things are said about us. Yet we are treated like the world’s garbage, like everybody’s trash—right up to the present moment.

    Paul like most that went out to teach the Word, never had a home. Hunger may well have been a big part of their lives. Yet they were to happy to move past this, and go on teaching. Paul and many that knew him, worked to earn what they had. Mostly it was for the food they had. When one moved around as much as Paul, the odds were they had little need for material things.

    1Co 4:14

    I am not writing these things to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children.
    1Co 4:15

    For even if you had ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, you have only one spiritual father. For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you.
    1Co 4:16

    So I urge you to imitate me.
    1Co 4:17
    That’s why I have sent Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of how I follow Christ Jesus, just as I teach in all the churches wherever I go.

    I have heard one teaching that made the claim Paul was full of himself. So much so that he seen himself as perfect in every way. So that we should walk as he walked. This teaching however is wrong in many ways. Paul didn't teach this at all. Paul was not speaking of his personal life in this passage. He was pointing to the way he used scripture to interpret scripture. As well how he did his best to walk in what the Word tells us. Timothy as we all know was a close associate of Paul, he had learned how to use the Word, without removing any part of it, to make clear it's intent. So yes Paul did have faith that Timothy would teach in the same way, and not lead them down the wrong road.

    1Co 4:18

    Some of you have become arrogant, thinking I will not visit you again.
    1Co 4:19

    But I will come—and soon—if the Lord lets me, and then I’ll find out whether these arrogant people just give pretentious speeches or whether they really have God’s power.
    1Co 4:20

    For the Kingdom of God is not just a lot of talk; it is living by God’s power.
    1Co 4:21

    Which do you choose? Should I come with a rod to punish you, or should I come with love and a gentle spirit?

    Giving them the chose, may have been to show that Paul was unafraid to do ether. As we can find in Acts Paul did visit them, and he confronted them that opposed him. Showing that they were nothing more than big talkers. Pauls life and words should always be seen not Paul being smarter than the rest of the world, rather as HaShems, power at work.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  14. #334
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1Co 5:1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.

    1Co 5:2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship


    Paul opens this chapter by addressing Sexual sin. Both his condemnation and his recommendation follow the teachings of the Torah. As can be seen by reading Lev. 18. The verses that Paul point to are. 7-8 & 29. 1Co 5:3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man 1Co 5:4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church, I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. 1Co 5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.


    There are some that teach this to mean that the man is to be left to die. In hopes that in his death He will repent, and be saved. Yet others teach this to mean that the man is to left to his sinful ways, removed from the church, so that his sin will not grow, and take the church with him. 1Co 5:6 Your boasting about this is terrible. Don’t you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough? 1Co 5:7 Get rid of the old “yeast” by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. 1Co 5:8 So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth.


    Though we understand this to speak of yeast as sin, as is made clear in many places throughout the Word. Just unleavened bread can be seen as a sign of righteousness. Yet there is at least one that questions this understanding. In his writings he points to 8 and that it says let us celebrate the festival. Explaining that Paul would not use this language to speak in a metaphor. Both do seem to be likely, and opens the door for much thought on this passage. 1Co 5:9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 1Co 5:10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 1Co 5:11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.

    1Co 5:12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.
    1Co 5:13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”


    As we all know, we deal with non-believers every day of our lives. Some we know to be, and others we may not know. To walk this earth means that we will deal with others, some that follow the Word, some that don’t. Foe the ones that don’t claim to follow Yeshua, or His Word, we should be light in their path. Yet when it comes to any that say they are believers, yet live a life of sin, we should have nothing to do with them.
    For us to pass judgment on one that walks in sin, openly admitting they don’t follow Yeshua, can be wrong in many ways. It can derail any whiteness you may give, along with pushing that person even further away. Yet to fail to pass judgment on any that say they believe, can lead to others that believe to fall away. HaShem is the final Judge, and it to Him that we will all answer. Doing ones best to follow in all that the Word tells us, is the best we can hope for, condemning others that don’t see the Word in the same way as you, is the wrong way to react to others.
    MarcR likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  15. #335
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1Co 6:1 When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers!


    1Co 6:2 Don’t you realize that someday we believers will judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can’t you decide even these little things among yourselves?
    1Co 6:3 Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.

    Though Paul doesn't go on to tell us what part we may play in the judgment of angles, some teach that we will also sit in judgment of HaShem, to decide if Satan or HaShem holds the deed to earth. Tough this is not back by any scripture I know of, it does bring up an interesting concept. As a body of true believers, we should hold at lest some understanding of how man should treat other men. This in turn should give us the right to judge any matter that comes up between to fellow believers. If it be entering into a contract, or a simple debate over what needs to be done for what ever reason. Yet for some reason, contracts are taken to lawyers, and some wish to file suit in court over little things. Ok so some are not so small. Yet they should be keep in house so to speak.
    The story that is going to be place before you, may or not may not be true. Yet it holds the ideas passed on by Paul in the above.
    A man wishing to start his own church, pulls away from his old church. Taking with him around 1/2 of the congregation. The leaders of his old church seek to find anything wrong with his teachings, then filed a suit to stop that teaching. The man rather than go to court, turns this over to his elders. The elders from both churches come together, and settle the dispute. Not happy with their decision, the law suit is moved forward. Who was in the wrong?
    1Co 6:4 If you have legal disputes about such matters, why go to outside judges who are not respected by the church?
    1Co 6:5 I am saying this to shame you. Isn’t there anyone in all the church who is wise enough to decide these issues?
    1Co 6:6 But instead, one believer sues another—right in front of unbelievers!

    In the above story, didn't shame come down on both churches? Bringing them both into the spot light, and showing just how divided the body of Christ has became, leaving the witness of at least one if not both, in ruin.
    1Co 6:7 Even to have such lawsuits with one another is a defeat for you. Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated?


    1Co 6:8 Instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong and cheat even your fellow believers.

    If we look at the given story, one may find that the pastor of the first church sued not over teachings, rather over the loss of income he may have suffered. The one that left to open his own church, may well have been fighting to save his own income. When it was all said and done, the odds are that both would lose everything.
    1Co 6:9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
    1Co 6:10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.
    1Co 6:11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    In our actions, we can show the Love of Yeshua or can show we have no love for other believes. Paul has turned from his stern warning, or reprimand, to giving encouragement, and hope. When one truly walks in Truth, they will uplift one another. When they are asked way, they answer, when they are seem to be placed under attack, they simply walk away, or stand their ground in a manner that makes it clear they are not looking for a fight.
    1Co 6:12 You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I must not become a slave to anything.










    1Co 6:13 You say, “Food was made for the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies.
    1Co 6:14 And God will raise us from the dead by his power, just as he raised our Lord from the dead.
    1Co 6:15 Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never!






    1Co 6:16 And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.”
    1Co 6:17 But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.
    1Co 6:18 Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body.






    1Co 6:19 Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself,
    1Co 6:20


    for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.

    Though Paul changes gears on us, he stays with predicable given to man kind in the Torah. This is not to say that you are under the LAw, as some may think. It does however show that by acting in a manner that contrast it's teachings, we sin. HaShem paid a high price to bring us back to Him, a price that most men would not be willing to pay. Yeshua, gave Him self freely, we would all do good to remember it was not Israel, Rome, or any other nation that placed Yeshua on that cross. He wiling gave His life for us all. He was placed on the cross for the sins of all man kind, My sin, your sin, and the sins of any that come behind us. If you are ever asked who killed Yeshua, the only truthful answer would be, NO ONE, He gave his life freely. If asked why He did this, LOVE.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  16. #336
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1Co 7:1


    Now regarding the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to abstain from sexual relations.


    1Co 7:2


    But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.



    1Co 7:3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs.


    1Co 7:4


    The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.

    I know of one teacher that uses the above, out of context with out fall. In that he teaches it to mean that no matter what a person must never say no to sex with their spouse. This shows a disrespect to both, and can not be backed by the proper application of Scripture.
    However, Paul does tell us that to remain celibate can be a good idea as well. One may think this idea to be nuts, as it can lead to immoral thoughts, and actions. However, as has been seen in some marriages, even sex inside the marriage can distract a person form their study of the word.



    1Co 7:5


    Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


    1Co 7:6


    I say this as a concession, not as a command.


    1Co 7:7


    But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. Yet each person has a special gift from God, of one kind or another.


    1Co 7:8


    So I say to those who aren’t married and to widows—it’s better to stay unmarried, just as I am.


    1Co 7:9


    But if they can’t control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It’s better to marry than to burn with lust.


    1Co 7:10


    But for those who are married, I have a command that comes not from me, but from the Lord. A wife must not leave her husband.



    1Co 7:11


    But if she does leave him, let her remain single or else be reconciled to him. And the husband must not leave his wife.

    One may wish to see this 1 of 2 ways. First that Paul sees divorce as being ok, so long as you remain single after words. If they most remarry then they must reconcile. To look at in this manner however, one must first reject the words of Yeshua, as well as Torah. Please see, Duet. 24:1-4, Mat. 9: 3-8
    The other way to see this does follow the Word a bit more clearly. If a man and wife are having troubles, and need time apart to think things over, they should take that time. As we all know, to walk away from a disagreement is better than staying with the argument, and making things worse. When one has time to clear their head, they think more clearly, and are better able to find a workable solution.
    1Co 7:12 Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her.


    1Co 7:13


    And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him.


    1Co 7:14

    For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy.



    1Co 7:15


    (But if the husband or wife who isn’t a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the Christian husband or wife is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you to live in peace.)



    1Co 7:16


    Don’t you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don’t you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you?

    In most cases, Were one is a believer, and the other isn't, things can work well. As the one that is lost, will most likely give their spouse the space needed for prayer, worship, and study. Many times in life, the lost one does turn their life over at some point. This is due in part to the prayers of their spouse. Paul does however make it clear that if the non-believer wants out, then we as believers should let them go. I know of no passage in the Word that gives any commandment that backs or counters this teaching. As to if the believer is free to remarry a believer, their is nothing that addresses this. One should follow what they find in their own heart.
    1Co 7:17 Each of you should continue to live in whatever situation the Lord has placed you, and remain as you were when God first called you. This is my rule for all the churches.

    1Co 7:18


    For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now.


    1Co 7:19


    For it makes no difference whether or not a man has been circumcised. The important thing is to keep God’s commandments.


    1Co 7:20


    Yes, each of you should remain as you were when God called you.

    Paul answers one of the oldest arguments made when one finds another that follows the Law. It seems that that when a person doesn't understand the Torah, they find it necessary to try and place commandments on others that are not theirs to follow. Circumcision has been the most popular answer for most. As sad as that seems, it is true. One should accept where they are, and work to better their walk in the Word. As we should all know, circumcision plays no part in true salvation, it has always a sign for the Jewish people, as reminder of the covenant HaShem made with them. Before any one ask, yes many gentiles are circumcised. This was done more for heath, and cleanliness more and no other reason.
    1Co 7:21 Are you a slave? Don’t let that worry you—but if you get a chance to be free, take it.

    1Co 7:22


    And remember, if you were a slave when the Lord called you, you are now free in the Lord. And if you were free when the Lord called you, you are now a slave of Christ.


    1Co 7:23


    God paid a high price for you, so don’t be enslaved by the world.



    1Co 7:24


    Each of you, dear brothers and sisters, should remain as you were when God first called you.

    Further addressing the condition one was in when they came to Yeshua, Paul makes it clear that a slave should take freedom over slavery. However, one should not take their freedom by force. Even a slave can make a difference in the lives of them around him. Still, I thank HaShem that slavery has been done away with, at lest for the most part. Man kind should strive to remove it when ever it is found.
    1Co 7:25 Now regarding your question about the young women who are not yet married. I do not have a command from the Lord for them. But the Lord in his mercy has given me wisdom that can be trusted, and I will share it with you.

    1Co 7:26


    Because of the present crisis, I think it is best to remain as you are.



    1Co 7:27


    If you have a wife, do not seek to end the marriage. If you do not have a wife, do not seek to get married.


    1Co 7:28


    But if you do get married, it is not a sin. And if a young woman gets married, it is not a sin. However, those who get married at this time will have troubles, and I am trying to spare you those problems.














    Some have said that Paul was thinking of the percussion of believers, in this passage, and how it may affect a person should they loss a loved one. Or that a person may become involved in fight that leads to the death of others, in order to save their loved ones. Though both can seen as being harmful to ones walk, the first more so than the latter. This seems to miss the point. As one moves on to read this in context with the following, they find that Paul most likely thought the return of Yeshua was just a short time away.
    1Co 7:29 But let me say this, dear brothers and sisters: The time that remains is very short. So from now on, those with wives should not focus only on their marriage.

    1Co 7:30


    Those who weep or who rejoice or who buy things should not be absorbed by their weeping or their joy or their possessions.


    1Co 7:31


    Those who use the things of the world should not become attached to them. For this world as we know it will soon pass away.


    1Co 7:32


    I want you to be free from the concerns of this life. An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lord’s work and thinking how to please him.


    1Co 7:33


    But a married man has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife.


    1Co 7:34


    His interests are divided. In the same way, a woman who is no longer married or has never been married can be devoted to the Lord and holy in body and in spirit. But a married woman has to think about her earthly responsibilities and how to please her husband.


    1Co 7:35


    I am saying this for your benefit, not to place restrictions on you. I want you to do whatever will help you serve the Lord best, with as few distractions as possible.

    Though Paul makes the point that a person can better serve HaShem if they don't have a spouse to think about, He also makes it clear that one must do what ever it takes to serve HaShem to the best of their ability. We all know a person that needs to prodded to study the Word, or to pray, or even to witness to others. To them, it may be wish to find a spouse that will help them to stay in study or what ever. Then I would say that anyone wishing to marry, should pray for a spouse that is strong where they are week, and needs help in the arias of life that you are strong.
    1Co 7:36 But if a man thinks that he’s treating his fiancée improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin.

    1Co 7:37


    But if he has decided firmly not to marry and there is no urgency and he can control his passion, he does well not to marry.


    1Co 7:38


    So the person who marries his fiancé does well, and the person who doesn’t marry does even better.


    1Co 7:39


    A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but only if he loves the Lord.



    1Co 7:40


    But in my opinion it would be better for her to stay single, and I think I am giving you counsel from God’s Spirit when I say this.

    One would well to note the last passage. Paul does wish to claim he speaks for HaShem, as he makes clear that he thinks he is giving counsel from the Spirit. Their are some that say in this chapter, Paul is speaking to his own wishes, and not that of HaShem. Though he does wish to lead them in the path set for them by HaShem. I find this a sad why to look at any part of Scripture, as it shows a lack of trust, as well as diminishing the work of the Spirit, through man kind.
    MarcR likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  17. #337
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1Cor. 8
    1
    Now regarding your question about food that has been offered to idols. Yes, we know that “we all have knowledge” about this issue. But while knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church.
    2 Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much.
    3 But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.

    As was pointed out before Corinth was a port city, they had a temple for almost every god know to man at that time. Many of the the believers there, once followed pagan worship. Now however, they wondered about the meat they eat. This is a clear indication that they have read Torah, and knowing that the meat in the market is often from the sacrifices to other gods, this question lays heavy on their minds.In the reply, we find what many have used to bash others. The idea tat anyone who has all the answers knows vary little. I am sure we can all agree that we don't know it all, and that if one makes this claim, it doesn't take long before they show they really don't.
    4 So, what about eating meat that has been offered to idols? Well, we all know that an idol is not really a god and that there is only one God.
    5 There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship many gods and many lords.
    6 But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.
    7 However, not all believers know this. Some are accustomed to thinking of idols as being real, so when they eat food that has been offered to idols, they think of it as the worship of real gods, and their weak consciences are violated.
    8 It’s true that we can’t win God’s approval by what we eat. We don’t lose anything if we don’t eat it, and we don’t gain anything if we do.

    9 But you must be careful so that your freedom does not cause others with a weaker conscience to stumble.
    10 For if others see you—with your “superior knowledge”—eating in the temple of an idol, won’t they be encouraged to violate their conscience by eating food that has been offered to an idol?
    11 So because of your superior knowledge, a weak believer for whom Christ died will be destroyed.
    12 And when you sin against other believers by encouraging them to do something they believe is wrong, you are sinning against Christ.
    13 So if what I eat causes another believer to sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live—for I don’t want to cause another believer to stumble.

    The idea Paul is trying to convey, has little to do with what we eat. Rather it is has everything to do with what we do. If we talk with one that follows the idea that eating, drinking, following Torah, or keeping the 7th day Sabbath is right, we are wrong when we try to dissuade them in what they do. After all, they have found a path that works for them, and they are trying to do what is right in their hearts. As one other put it, "The idea that any one has a better way is odd at best, The name of your church, has nothing to do with true salvation." Yet one other had this to say, "The path we walk in our service of God, must be tempered by our knowledge of his word. Though we must always seek the truth, and walk in the truth we know. To turn aside from the truth once we have it can lead to Christ saying he never know us."
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  18. #338
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    Could you explain double takes in the Hebrews text and how not understanding how Hebrew idiom effects the meaning of certain verses in both the Hebrew and the Koine texts.

    Where would you find those prescriptions for rightly dividing the word.?

    I understand that parables where designed to hide spiritual truths but have not heard of that requirement.


    Could you explain double takes in the Hebrews text and how not understanding how Hebrew idiom effects the meaning of certain verses in both the Hebrew and the Koine texts.

    Not in less than 1000 words.

    My commentary is available for download in the about me section of my profile.
    Rainrider likes this.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Rainrider, I would just like to say, thank you.

    You held my attention for seventeen pages, and on a difficult topic.
    Most of what you say agrees with what the Lord has imputed to me.
    Where our perspectives differ, I feel very willing to try your perspectives, because of your patient from-the-heart explanations.
    And you opened up a couple of new ways of seeing some of the verses for me.

    Grateful for your big effort, and will continue following this thread.
    Bless you.
    Paul

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    1 Cor chapter 9
    1 Am I not as free as anyone else? Am I not an apostle? Haven’t I seen Jesus our Lord with my own eyes? Isn’t it because of my work that you belong to the Lord?

    This chapters opens as though Paul is building a defense for changes placed against him. All though it may be seen in the light of criminal defense, and has been placed in that light by one commentator, that is not the so when one reads the full chapter. Yet it moves on, it becomes clear that Paul has more on his mind that just a question of authority as an apostle.


    2 Even if others think I am not an apostle, I certainly am to you. You yourselves are proof that I am the Lord’s apostle.
    3 This is my answer to those who question my authority.
    4 Don’t we have the right to live in your homes and share your meals?
    5 Don’t we have the right to bring a believing wife with us as the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers do, and as Peter does?
    6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have to work to support ourselves?

    Though Paul know full well that he had a right, (by Torah, as well by Yeshua Him self) Yet Paul never asked for any of the above concessions. Paul worked for keep, and as we will see in just bit, didn't want to give that up.


    7 What soldier has to pay his own expenses? What farmer plants a vineyard and doesn’t have the right to eat some of its fruit? What shepherd cares for a flock of sheep and isn’t allowed to drink some of the milk?
    8 Am I expressing merely a human opinion, or does the law say the same thing?

    9 For the law of Moses says, “You must not muzzle an ox to keep it from eating as it treads out the grain.” Was God thinking only about oxen when he said this?
    10 Wasn’t he actually speaking to us? Yes, it was written for us, so that the one who plows and the one who threshes the grain might both expect a share of the harvest.

    Paul moves on to build an iron clad case. First by pointing out that others that don't work to teach the word, or spread the gospel, are given the same concessions he had listed. Second we must note that Paul also draws on the Torah, (Deut. 25:4)
    expanding on it's teachings to show both it's full meaning, as well other implications that may apply. Though in the Torah it is made clear that this law was meant to be applied in this manner, The Torah does teach that we should we are to give concessions to our teachers. As one can see more clearly when looking at what HaShem gave the priest.


    11 Since we have planted spiritual seed among you, aren’t we entitled to a harvest of physical food and drink?
    12 If you support others who preach to you, shouldn’t we have an even greater right to be supported? But we have never used this right. We would rather put up with anything than be an obstacle to the Good News about Christ.
    13 Don’t you realize that those who work in the temple get their meals from the offerings brought to the temple? And those who serve at the altar get a share of the sacrificial offerings.
    14 In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it.

    This is the only place that Paul say's he ever help other who preach the Word. There is no proof that he did other his words here. Yet as we will see, and as we all may know, Paul worked. His work as a tent maker, would easily open the door to jobs working with leather. Knowing that leather craft, even today pays well, it is not unthinkable, that Paul may have often giving to help other teachers, afford to move around in their work to Spread the Good News. Also Paul points that Yeshua told His disciples in Matt. 10:10 not to take anything with them, they should trust that HaShem will meat their needs, so don't turn down anything offered. This may have been said to reinforce his above teaching from Torah, as well back his claim to the right to concessions.


    15 Yet I have never used any of these rights. And I am not writing this to suggest that I want to start now. In fact, I would rather die than lose my right to boast about preaching without charge.
    16 Yet preaching the Good News is not something I can boast about. I am compelled by God to do it. How terrible for me if I didn’t preach the Good News!
    17 If I were doing this on my own initiative, I would deserve payment. But I have no choice, for God has given me this sacred trust.

    It seems that Paul is telling us, one that choices to tech, should be paid for their work, a person called it should see their teaching as payment enough. However one commentator disagrees. They feel that if one is called to teach the Word, they should be paid, and one that isn't should never ask payment. The we have one that tells us, nether should ask for payment, though if ones picks it as his line of work, they have the right to be paid as one called to it.


    18 What then is my pay? It is the opportunity to preach the Good News without charging anyone. That’s why I never demand my rights when I preach the Good News.
    19 Even though I am a free man with no master, I have become a slave to all people to bring many to Christ.
    20 When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law.

    Something I feel must be made clear here. Though almost all other translations, word Verse 20 as "under the law" they all make the same distinction. When with Jews, and with those that are under the law, or as here that follow Jewish law. Paul does not place all Jewish people in the same box. This due to a simple fact, though at this time, ( as well as today) many Jews followed the Torah, they didn't all follow Rabbinic law, or Jewish law. To better explain this, I will use the words of a Jewish teacher. In his teaching, he explains that we must answer 2 questions that arise from the term under the law. There 1) Who are those under the law? 2) what is meant by under the law? He then answers the second question fist. The following is a direct quote.
    "The Greek, upo nomon as used here, does not mean under the law in a general sense, or even under the Torah. Rather it means, under something that is not not Torah but a reversion of it, specifically one that tries to turn it into a set of rules that supposedly one can obey legalistically, that is, mechanically, with neither faith nor love for either God or men, yet nevertheless thereby earn Gods applause and approval."
    In my mind this is just a long winded way to say Rabbinic law.
    In answer to the first question he placed before us, his answer is as follows. "Those under the law are, (in my judgment) not Jews, but gentiles that have been Judaized. My reasoning is as follows: Paul has already spoken about Jews and has no need to repeat his self."
    As I have already placed my own thoughts out there, I see no reason to stop with just that. As it is clear that my thought do line up some what the teacher I quoted, it is also clear that in some ways they don't. So to repeat my words some what, and explain on my meaning. Not all Jews followed Rabbinic law. Rabbinic law, though it has it roots in the Torah, does not reflect the intent of Torah. In some ways it can said that Rabbinic law, make it impossible to follow the spirit of Torah, by removing many things that would be the right thing to do. In fact, at times it make it wrong to do the right thing. A full explanation would take much more than I am able to read in under an hour, so I will not post it all. Also it would distract from the thread some what, and if left long enough, would change this thread into something it is not meant to be.


    21 When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law, I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.
    22 When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some.
    23 I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
    24 Don’t you realize that in a race everyone runs, but only one person gets the prize? So run to win!
    25 All athletes are disciplined in their training. They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize.
    26 So I run with purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing.
    27 I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.

    Paul isn't talking of a race one would run against others. In fact the way Paul closes this chapter, with what seems like talk of athletic prowess, and training. He is speaking to ones spiritual training. Training the body to obey HaShem's will, and the mind to see sin, and turn away from it. Or as one other teach says. Paul wishes convey to us that we should keep in mind the sins most prevalent in our lives, and train both our minds and body in ways to recognize them, and avoid them.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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