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Thread: Lets talk about Paul

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Limey410v2 View Post
    It's interesting, however my thoughts are that what he wrote are not meant to be about the man Paul, but a testimony to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
    If we are looking for Paul in his writings we are not fully looking for God.
    True, his writings not not about him. Just as mine are not about me. So let me give you the same thought 2 ways. It has nothing to do with me, nor the Bible, this is just a test to see if you understand the same though from then both.

    Always go down one gear lower than you went up.

    Don't over heat them or they won't work when you need them.

    Just what am I talking about here? If you ever drove a truck there will be a clear understanding of them both. If not, then you would have no clue at all. Unless you get lucky, you would have no clue at all. Yet they are both talking of saving something, or not over using it.

    The same holds true with Paul. If we don't know how the man thinks, He may be telling something that can save our lives, just as the advice given by me can save your life. If you understand it.
    Karraster and Limey410v2 like this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Acts 18

    And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews thatJesus was Christ. 6And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I amclean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. 7And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. 8And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. 9Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace: 10For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city. 11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Have you ever noticed if you take the L out of the world it becomes the word...
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    To me a good comparison to Paul is the song "You Can Call Me Al" - Paul Simon

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    I see that no one has answered any of what has placed out there. So lets move on, and see what we can find out. As we can all attest, The education one gets as a kid, stays with them. It shapes the mind, and is not easily removed. Even if something comes a long that changes one perspective, if they have a firm foundation, the core of their education would remain unchanged. By core I am talking of values, faith, understanding, and most of all personal discipline.

    Seldom do people think in terms of disciplinary, as a way to understand anyone. Yet it is that vary thing that makes us who we are, and who we will be as time goes on. Personal discipline can be changed over time. As a person learns, they change. It is how ever only subtle change. The core it's self doesn't change, unless there is a major change in the mind of the person. That kind of change, is most often seen when a person has undergone mental trauma like war, the loss of a loved one, brain injury, and so on.

    To look at Pauls education, we must learn a bit about his teacher. That as we know from Paul him-self was Gamaliel. Gamaliel was the grandson of Hillel. Like his granddad he believed the Torah to be the unadulterated Word of HaShem. It with this that used to upmost care in applying it's laws, and judgments. As Rabban, ( president of the Sanhedrin) Gamaliel should have prsided over the trail of Yeshua. However that was not permitted by the High Priest. As one can see in the Book of Acts,
    Act 5:38 “And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing;


    Act 5:39 “but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.”

    If you take time to read that whole chapter, you will better understand what he is saying. Some make the claim that Gamaliel was a follow of Yeshua, though we are never told he is. This chapter makes it clear that he seen no threat to the Jewish life by any that did follow. Yet from this man, we find Paul. A man that hunted, and persecuted any followers of the Way. Did something change in Paul, that changed how he seen the Law?

    The odds are that Saul, seen the Law in much the same way as his teacher. However Saul, may have let others around him, guide his actions. After all, as a teacher of the Law himself, there was no greater honor than to sit on the Sanhedrin. At the time, the war for control was not yet over, and the Sadusees were at the top of their game. It was looking then that they may, with the help of Rome, take the show if you will. Yet even in Rome, many didn't want them in power. They liked Gamaliel, and seen him as an honest man, that would be easy to keep working with.

    Knowing that Gamaliel, learned from Hillel, and would have walked the same path as his granddad, it is easy to find what he followed, and how he understood the law. Though we have little of his works to look at, the Mishnah is filled with the words of Hillel. In them we find a man that was kind, loving, and even headed. Pleasing the good of the people above his own needs. Ever working to give as light an interposition to matters of Laws as he could. With out doing harm to the traditions of the people. At the same time, Hillel also wished for a strict following of the Torah.

    In closing, Paul would have followed the Spirit of the Law, and not the letter of the Law. He would have seen the Torah for what it is, a guide to keep us from sin, and to help us when dealing with others.
    Karraster and TruthTalk like this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  6. #26


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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    It also seems clear that Paul was taught by direct revelation from JESUS as evidenced in Acts.......
    A most important point...Gal 1v12
    dcontroversal likes this.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Many of you may have seen that I left Pauls family out of his education. It is true that most education comes from the home, and is arguably the most important learning we get. My reason is that we know so little of his family, that to speak of them would be speculative at best. If not an out right fabrication of things we know nothing about.
    As for Paul learning from divine instruction, I have not left that out, we simply have not gotten to that part of his life as yet.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him. There are some other books and writers that fill us in on parts we may not know. I have even been told, though never found or read them, that the RCC has records no other church has on Paul.
    From some of my studies, I do know that the RCC does have an extensive archive, some writings that date back to around 50 AD if I remember it right.
    I am hoping this will stay on the topic of getting to know Paul, and stay clear of any use of Paul to make points that may or may not be true. If I learned anything from my time in Biblical study, both in and out of the class room, it is that if one truly wants to make a point of almost any kind, turn to Paul. His writings can be read to mean almost anything a person wishes to find. Peter tells us this about Paul,
    2Pe 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
    2Pe 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    This can be seen as a warning to us, that we should know the person, how Paul sees scripture, and just what parts of the Word Paul is calling scripture. It is only with this understanding that one can truly find the truth of his words. So lets get started.

    It is a clear fact that Paul only had what many today call the Old Testament. It is from this book that Paul based his teaching. In his writings Paul quotes from or makes clear allusions to the Tanach 111 times. He references the Torah 46 times, the Prophets 42 times, and the Writings 23 times.
    In relation the dead sea scroll's represent the following, Deut. 27 times, Isaiah 21 times, and Psalms 39 times. Indicating that Pauls use of the Tanach fits with the general perspective of 1st century Judaisms. (FN) from page 153of the letter Writer, by Tim Hegg.
    Galatians 1:11-12

    Paul Defends His Ministry

    11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
    JGIG, FlSnookman7 and Desertsrose like this.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Galatians 1:11-12

    Paul Defends His Ministry

    11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
    And when we get there, we will be looking at it in depth. Forgive me for doing this in an orderly fashion, however, to jump from one poart of his life to another, would only serve to confuses the study, and in no way would help in finding out who Paul is. Nor does it do anything for us when it comes to learning the needed information, necessary to truly understanding Paul's writings.
    It may just be that I have spent time teaching classes at a collage level, that gives my the need to follow order. Also, it may be that I undertake all studies in the same manner.
    Please don't take this as some in the past have, I am not scolding you. I am simply letting my stand be known, and trying to inform others as to why I tend to lead and not follow.
    Last edited by Rainrider; September 5th, 2017 at 04:55 PM.
    Karraster likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    And when we get there, we will be looking at it in depth. Forgive me for doing this in an orderly fashion, however, to jump from one poart of his life to another, would only serve to confuses the study, and in way would help in finding out how Paul is. Nor does it do anything for us when it comes to learning the needed information, necessary to truly understanding Paul's writings.
    It may just be that I have spent teaching classes at a collage level, that gives my the need to follow order. Also, it may be that I undertake all studies in the same manner.
    Please don't take this as some in the past have, I am not scolding you. I am simply letting my stand be known, and trying to inform others as to why I tend to lead and not follow.
    If you want order and flow go back to the college class...otherwise you are just pushing your ego , arrogance and pride...

    PS: Maybe people take this wrong, because your manner of delivery is quite absurd, absolutely rude and completely insulting....and points to yourself.....go scold your college kids...you are not the smartest guy in the room...
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    What is wrong with people that they have to be so hateful? Is it a sign of the times?

    Rainrider I am reading your thread and looked forward to reading more this evening after work....only to find the above remark. I am sorry he said that to you and wish to apologize for it myself, and hope you continue. Your style of sharing appeals to me, and I want to read more.
    Rosemaryx likes this.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    As we know Paul was a student of Galaliel. Paul him self tells he is a Pharisee, in acts 23:6. So just what is a Pharisee? To understand this, from the pages of History, and not the ideas left by man, is an easy thing. If one looks it up on line they can find a number of teachings on it. However to look at this from the perspective of first century Judaism, we may find a meaning that is not found on line.

    The title it's self may come from the characteristics fo teh people that made up this group. we are going o look at the 3 major ones. 1st They represented the middle and lower class of people. This can be seen in the fact that they worked to change the Ruling class, in was that would be of benefit to the lower classes. Be it matters of Temple services, or in judgments of Law.
    2nd Not having the status of the ruling class, they remained from of Hellenized thinking, and remained primarily Near Eastern in culture and world view. Last, but not lest, they accepted what they called, "traditions of the fathers.

    To brake this down.
    Working to change the ruling class of people, gave them a much higher respect than the Sadducee held. Making them a threat to the positions held by the Sadducee's. This did build in both resentment, and often open conflict. Though the Pharisee's were less in number, they held 36 seats in the Sanhedrin. A number that was agreed on when the Sanhedrin was first formed. This was done to give equal power to any dissension being made. Or at lest as it turned out, to give that appearance.

    The Pharisee's by leaving the power of government in the hands of the Sadducee's were not forced to adopt Greek thinking. Yes they were to some extent influenced by it, though not to the extent of the more wealthy. The wealthy had to adopt, in order to maintain their trade, and passion of power. After all, it would do no good to try and trade with the Romans, and work to undermined their government.

    Also by not getting into the political game, The Pharisee's could follow their traditions, and not have that work against them. Some may not know what is meant by the traditions of their fathers. They are none Biblical Laws and customs handed down from generation to generation. They were a supplement to the written Torah. Known as the Oral Torah. As a result they were extremely careful in their observance of the Torah. Possessing a high expertise in both the knowledge and proper interpretation of both.
    As with all men, we are not perfect by any means. Just we all do, they made mistakes, as we can see from their encounters with Yeshua. It would seem to the average on looker, that they put the teachings of tradition a bit to high on their to do list.
    Karraster likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Karraster View Post
    What is wrong with people that they have to be so hateful? Is it a sign of the times?

    Rainrider I am reading your thread and looked forward to reading more this evening after work....only to find the above remark. I am sorry he said that to you and wish to apologize for it myself, and hope you continue. Your style of sharing appeals to me, and I want to read more.
    My friend I take no offense in words, what I do is pray for them, and move on as though it never happened. I learned long ago, that if you try to make everyone happy, and pass out worm fuzzes all the time, the truth is neglected.
    I do thank you for you kind words, and trust this. Even not one person ever post on this thread, it will be seen through to it's end. Just as the other study I am doing on the Torah will be.
    Karraster and Rosemaryx like this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    As we know Paul was a student of Galaliel. Paul him self tells he is a Pharisee, in acts 23:6. So just what is a Pharisee? To understand this, from the pages of History, and not the ideas left by man, is an easy thing. If one looks it up on line they can find a number of teachings on it. However to look at this from the perspective of first century Judaism, we may find a meaning that is not found on line.

    The title it's self may come from the characteristics fo teh people that made up this group. we are going o look at the 3 major ones. 1st They represented the middle and lower class of people. This can be seen in the fact that they worked to change the Ruling class, in was that would be of benefit to the lower classes. Be it matters of Temple services, or in judgments of Law.
    2nd Not having the status of the ruling class, they remained from of Hellenized thinking, and remained primarily Near Eastern in culture and world view. Last, but not lest, they accepted what they called, "traditions of the fathers.

    To brake this down.
    Working to change the ruling class of people, gave them a much higher respect than the Sadducee held. Making them a threat to the positions held by the Sadducee's. This did build in both resentment, and often open conflict. Though the Pharisee's were less in number, they held 36 seats in the Sanhedrin. A number that was agreed on when the Sanhedrin was first formed. This was done to give equal power to any dissension being made. Or at lest as it turned out, to give that appearance.

    The Pharisee's by leaving the power of government in the hands of the Sadducee's were not forced to adopt Greek thinking. Yes they were to some extent influenced by it, though not to the extent of the more wealthy. The wealthy had to adopt, in order to maintain their trade, and passion of power. After all, it would do no good to try and trade with the Romans, and work to undermined their government.

    Also by not getting into the political game, The Pharisee's could follow their traditions, and not have that work against them. Some may not know what is meant by the traditions of their fathers. They are none Biblical Laws and customs handed down from generation to generation. They were a supplement to the written Torah. Known as the Oral Torah. As a result they were extremely careful in their observance of the Torah. Possessing a high expertise in both the knowledge and proper interpretation of both.
    As with all men, we are not perfect by any means. Just we all do, they made mistakes, as we can see from their encounters with Yeshua. It would seem to the average on looker, that they put the teachings of tradition a bit to high on their to do list.
    Was Paul taught by Gamaliel or Galaliel? or was this just a typo?

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    My friend I take no offense in words, what I do is pray for them, and move on as though it never happened. I learned long ago, that if you try to make everyone happy, and pass out worm fuzzes all the time, the truth is neglected.
    I do thank you for you kind words, and trust this. Even not one person ever post on this thread, it will be seen through to it's end. Just as the other study I am doing on the Torah will be.
    Spelling is important for teachers...could you at least try to use spell check....

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Was Paul taught by Gamaliel or Galaliel? or was this just a typo?
    By Jesus HAHAH just ribbin ya.....
    JGIG likes this.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    By Jesus HAHAH just ribbin ya.....
    Are you here all night or just for the next round

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Are you here all night or just for the next round
    All night, every night for your enjoyment HAH

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    All night every night for your enjoyment HAH
    ..................

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    My understanding is that Judaism was around during the time of Ezra, and came to be for reason of improvising during exile and no temple access. For those born in exile, it was all they'd ever known. If that's true, it explains all the hostility and constant attempts to thwart repairing the walls/cleansing the temple. ...and, this seems as good a place to say it as any; I've read some liken todays awakening/hunger to truly understand the gospel first delivered to the saints, to the days of Ezra. Duly noted, the parallels come alive on BDF, if you get my drift.

    More importantly, as you know, the breach (Ezra)had to be made in order to prepare for Messiah. Would it not seem logical some repairs need to be made for His return? Some keener minds than mine think so.

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