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Thread: Lets talk about Paul

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    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Lets talk about Paul

    Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him. There are some other books and writers that fill us in on parts we may not know. I have even been told, though never found or read them, that the RCC has records no other church has on Paul.
    From some of my studies, I do know that the RCC does have an extensive archive, some writings that date back to around 50 AD if I remember it right.
    I am hoping this will stay on the topic of getting to know Paul, and stay clear of any use of Paul to make points that may or may not be true. If I learned anything from my time in Biblical study, both in and out of the class room, it is that if one truly wants to make a point of almost any kind, turn to Paul. His writings can be read to mean almost anything a person wishes to find. Peter tells us this about Paul,
    2Pe 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
    2Pe 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    This can be seen as a warning to us, that we should know the person, how Paul sees scripture, and just what parts of the Word Paul is calling scripture. It is only with this understanding that one can truly find the truth of his words. So lets get started.

    It is a clear fact that Paul only had what many today call the Old Testament. It is from this book that Paul based his teaching. In his writings Paul quotes from or makes clear allusions to the Tanach 111 times. He references the Torah 46 times, the Prophets 42 times, and the Writings 23 times.
    In relation the dead sea scroll's represent the following, Deut. 27 times, Isaiah 21 times, and Psalms 39 times. Indicating that Pauls use of the Tanach fits with the general perspective of 1st century Judaisms. (FN) from page 153of the letter Writer, by Tim Hegg.
    JaumeJ, loveme1, Karraster and 4 others like this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Yes, it's apauling - just think what he could have done with a new testament.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him. There are some other books and writers that fill us in on parts we may not know. I have even been told, though never found or read them, that the RCC has records no other church has on Paul.
    From some of my studies, I do know that the RCC does have an extensive archive, some writings that date back to around 50 AD if I remember it right.
    I am hoping this will stay on the topic of getting to know Paul, and stay clear of any use of Paul to make points that may or may not be true. If I learned anything from my time in Biblical study, both in and out of the class room, it is that if one truly wants to make a point of almost any kind, turn to Paul. His writings can be read to mean almost anything a person wishes to find. Peter tells us this about Paul,
    2Pe 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
    2Pe 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    This can be seen as a warning to us, that we should know the person, how Paul sees scripture, and just what parts of the Word Paul is calling scripture. It is only with this understanding that one can truly find the truth of his words. So lets get started.

    It is a clear fact that Paul only had what many today call the Old Testament. It is from this book that Paul based his teaching. In his writings Paul quotes from or makes clear allusions to the Tanach 111 times. He references the Torah 46 times, the Prophets 42 times, and the Writings 23 times.
    In relation the dead sea scroll's represent the following, Deut. 27 times, Isaiah 21 times, and Psalms 39 times. Indicating that Pauls use of the Tanach fits with the general perspective of 1st century Judaisms. (FN) from page 153of the letter Writer, by Tim Hegg.
    It also seems clear that Paul was taught by direct revelation from JESUS as evidenced in Acts.......

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him.
    If you want an in-depth study of the life and epistles of Paul, I would recommend the book by the same title by Conybeare and Howson. I own a copy but you can read it on line. https://archive.org/details/lifeandepistles00howsgoog

    Paul was a very unique individual and chosen by Christ to do an outstanding work for Him and for His Kingdom. Since over half the New Testament comes from Paul, we need to be perfectly clear that there is absolutely no conflict between Christ and Paul.

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    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    If you want an in-depth study of the life and epistles of Paul, I would recommend the book by the same title by Conybeare and Howson. I own a copy but you can read it on line. https://archive.org/details/lifeandepistles00howsgoog

    Paul was a very unique individual and chosen by Christ to do an outstanding work for Him and for His Kingdom. Since over half the New Testament comes from Paul, we need to be perfectly clear that there is absolutely no conflict between Christ and Paul.
    I thank you. I will look that over when I get time. I am working in my post on here with the classes I am takeing, and the ones I teach. Kind of running thin on time here.
    Like you said, Paul was chosen by Yeshua, and more than 1/2 the NT contains his writings. SO would not be just as important to be sure that we do place him in conflict with any part of the Word, be it the Tanach or the NT?
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    It also seems clear that Paul was taught by direct revelation from JESUS as evidenced in Acts.......
    The odds are good that Paul seen much of what was written in the NT.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Senior Member Zmouth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
    so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    2 Cor 11:3

    This scripture is an excellent example to demonstrate the difference between the corrupted mind and the mind of Christ. Those with the mind of Christ will renew themselves in the Holy Ghost while the corrupted mind will not only reject correction but will take pleasure in doing the lusts of their father.

    Reminds me of the verse in the book of Proverbs;


    Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
    Prov 4:7

    The corrupted mind does not understand that by seeing they shall not see what to get and the mind of Christ hears and understands what to get what is being freely given.



    Last edited by Zmouth; September 3rd, 2017 at 08:23 AM.


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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    It also seems clear that Paul was taught by direct revelation from JESUS as evidenced in Acts.......
    Yes one author of the scriptures in respect to the revealed mind of Christ, not the mind of Paul or any other prophet who was moved by the hand of God to will and declare the will of one unseen .

    There are thing we can learn about Paul through the scriptures. But first things first.

    Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.2Pe 1:20


    We know as an outward Jew he had a hatred for the Christians in respect to inward Jew born of the Spirit of Christ after a false zeal for God, through a law of the fathers as oral traditions of men . Another gospel , another Christ, a law that apposed the law of our Father in heaven .Having all the what was called right credentials . Therefore he walked by sight as did all of the outward pertaining to the flesh non converted Jew.

    Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. Act 22:1

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Paul knew how to fight in a war.

    2 Corinthians 12:

    16 But granting that I myself did not burden you, I was crafty, you say, and got the better of you by deceit.

    (ESV)

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him. There are some other books and writers that fill us in on parts we may not know. I have even been told, though never found or read them, that the RCC has records no other church has on Paul.
    From some of my studies, I do know that the RCC does have an extensive archive, some writings that date back to around 50 AD if I remember it right.
    I am hoping this will stay on the topic of getting to know Paul, and stay clear of any use of Paul to make points that may or may not be true. If I learned anything from my time in Biblical study, both in and out of the class room, it is that if one truly wants to make a point of almost any kind, turn to Paul. His writings can be read to mean almost anything a person wishes to find. Peter tells us this about Paul,
    2Pe 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
    2Pe 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    This can be seen as a warning to us, that we should know the person, how Paul sees scripture, and just what parts of the Word Paul is calling scripture. It is only with this understanding that one can truly find the truth of his words. So lets get started.

    It is a clear fact that Paul only had what many today call the Old Testament. It is from this book that Paul based his teaching. In his writings Paul quotes from or makes clear allusions to the Tanach 111 times. He references the Torah 46 times, the Prophets 42 times, and the Writings 23 times.
    In relation the dead sea scroll's represent the following, Deut. 27 times, Isaiah 21 times, and Psalms 39 times. Indicating that Pauls use of the Tanach fits with the general perspective of 1st century Judaisms. (FN) from page 153of the letter Writer, by Tim Hegg.
    You leave out that Paul was taken aside and personally tutored by the HolySpirit after his conversion and baptism in the Holy Spirit. His writings were to others Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    He knew where his new faith came from and who to have the faith of Christ, the faith that comes from hearing God in respect to. Not his own self.


    Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the "hope of the gospel", which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


    The same spirit of faith all Christians are made ministers to .

    2Corinthians 4:13 We having the "same spirit of faith", according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

    The mutual faith of Christ, according as it is written.
    Magenta and John146 like this.

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    Senior Member Muzungu256's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    i know where this is going. i can see the signs u see. the code is in place.
    this is going to be a "paul taught us to keep the torah" thread. remember i called it

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    i know where this is going. i can see the signs u see. the code is in place.
    this is going to be a "paul taught us to keep the torah" thread. remember i called it
    Paul concluded that a man was justified by faith without the deeds of the law.....let's just jump to the chase
    JGIG, Magenta, Grace777x70 and 2 others like this.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    The first, and in my opinion, the most important thing to remember when trying to understand Pauls writings is to know that he wrote in two distinct styles:

    THUS SAITH THE LORD

    and

    I WOULD RATHER THAT/IT WOULD BE BETTER THAT

    The first was Paul telling people "thus saith the Lord," and there was zero room for argument or debate of any kind.

    The second was Paul telling people that there are ways to live a better, more Christ like life, and, while they are not set in stone commandments, if people follow them, they will have a more rewarding, and less troubling life.

    One is a Commandment from God, the other is advice from Paul. One is to be obeyed, the other may or may not be followed. His Epistles are full of both examples......

    (my thoughts)
    Hebrews 13:5 .) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
    6 .) So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him. There are some other books and writers that fill us in on parts we may not know. I have even been told, though never found or read them, that the RCC has records no other church has on Paul.
    From some of my studies, I do know that the RCC does have an extensive archive, some writings that date back to around 50 AD if I remember it right.
    I am hoping this will stay on the topic of getting to know Paul, and stay clear of any use of Paul to make points that may or may not be true. If I learned anything from my time in Biblical study, both in and out of the class room, it is that if one truly wants to make a point of almost any kind, turn to Paul. His writings can be read to mean almost anything a person wishes to find. Peter tells us this about Paul,
    2Pe 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
    2Pe 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    This can be seen as a warning to us, that we should know the person, how Paul sees scripture, and just what parts of the Word Paul is calling scripture. It is only with this understanding that one can truly find the truth of his words. So lets get started.

    It is a clear fact that Paul only had what many today call the Old Testament. It is from this book that Paul based his teaching. In his writings Paul quotes from or makes clear allusions to the Tanach 111 times. He references the Torah 46 times, the Prophets 42 times, and the Writings 23 times.
    In relation the dead sea scroll's represent the following, Deut. 27 times, Isaiah 21 times, and Psalms 39 times. Indicating that Pauls use of the Tanach fits with the general perspective of 1st century Judaisms. (FN) from page 153of the letter Writer, by Tim Hegg.
    It's interesting, however my thoughts are that what he wrote are not meant to be about the man Paul, but a testimony to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
    If we are looking for Paul in his writings we are not fully looking for God.
    MarcR, Magenta, Rainrider and 1 others like this.

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    Senior Member Limey410v2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    I'm not saying it not worthwhile to try to understand the writers, but it is more important to get to know the author.
    MarcR, Magenta, John146 and 1 others like this.

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by p_rehbein View Post
    One is a Commandment from God, the other is advice from Paul. One is to be obeyed, the other may or may not be followed. His Epistles are full of both examples......
    That is NOT how the apostle Peter understood the epistles of Paul (and he was familiar with all of them). As far as Peter was concerned (and as far as all Christians are concerned) even the seeming "personal advice" of Paul was Divinely inspired, hence deemed to be Scripture. Please note (2 Pet 3:15,16):

    And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

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    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    If you want an in-depth study of the life and epistles of Paul, I would recommend the book by the same title by Conybeare and Howson. I own a copy but you can read it on line. https://archive.org/details/lifeandepistles00howsgoog

    Paul was a very unique individual and chosen by Christ to do an outstanding work for Him and for His Kingdom. Since over half the New Testament comes from Paul, we need to be perfectly clear that there is absolutely no conflict between Christ and Paul.
    You're right! There are differences, but no conflicts. Paul just relayed Christ's post resurrection message to the church.

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    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by heartofdavid View Post
    You leave out that Paul was taken aside and personally tutored by the HolySpirit after his conversion and baptism in the Holy Spirit. His writings were to others Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
    Is it not proper to start with a mans life from the same place that he started to live it? i.e. From where his story is first seen.

    Paul as we know was the man that held the coats of them that stoned Stephen. Acts chapter 8. So why was Paul in agreement with him? To skip over this would be to dismiss a Part of Pauls life that helped to make him into the man he was. It would also force one to read Paul with out an understand of his mind. Lets face it, Paul was a Pharisee, Acts 23. From the tribe of Benjamin, Philippians 3. Studied under a man named Gamaliel, Acts 22.
    So what does any of this tell you of the man? From this what can you see in the thinking of this man, or find out about his use o0f wording, and expressions. Does it give you an insight at all into how to understand him? What about his teacher? What do you know of Gamaliel, anything? This all plays a big part in understanding who Paul is, how he thinks, and why he speaks as he does. You see, we all follow the teachings we gain as a child. For good or bad, they make us who we are. The boot in the USA means the thing you put on your feet in winter, or when going to work. Yet in England the same word means the trunk of a car in the USA. SO yes to learn the things of Pauls is much the same way.
    If we remove Paul from who he was, and try to place on him ideas that would be foreign to him, then we also place foreign thoughts into his writing. This as can be seen leads to misunderstanding. SO rather than jump to a place that gives room to introduce our way of thinking into Paul, it is wise to first learn how Paul thought, and why, would you not agree?
    Karraster, MarcR and Limey410v2 like this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    He knew where his new faith came from and who to have the faith of Christ, the faith that comes from hearing God in respect to. Not his own self.


    Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the "hope of the gospel", which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


    The same spirit of faith all Christians are made ministers to .

    2Corinthians 4:13 We having the "same spirit of faith", according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

    The mutual faith of Christ, according as it is written.
    So where was it that Paul found this Spirit of Faith written of?
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

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