Science and the Teachings of Jesus

[kaylagrl]

Now if you observe what has been fed to the masses via entertainment (movies), you encounter a movie the "The Matrix" which is essentially in agreement with everything I posted in the OP.

A man "Neo", realizes there is something not right with the world, he seeks "Morpheus" (the God of Dreams/Sleep) and finds access to him via "Trinity" (come on guys, how much more obvious can these people make it for you?)

Neo is given red pill / blue pill choice; to either continue living normally in the "dream", or enter within yourself and see how far the rabbit hole goes. Neo faces the mirror and "touches" it, thereby entering within himself.

Neo realizes the world he came from is all an illusion, and goes through three movies of internal struggle as to whether or not he is "the one".

He reaches the source; he asks the creator "why am I here?". The architect or "God" who tells Neo he is the single anomaly which is creating imbalance in the whole of the Matrix. Neo then realizes the root of all of his problems; the problem is choice.

The architect gives Neo two choices; reboot (continue cycle of birth and death) or return and see Zion fall. Neo must choose whether or not he actually is "the one" which would render the architect's second "scenario" as a lie only meant to "test" Neo at his very root; are you the one or not?

Neo fights Smith for 15 minutes only to have Smith ask Neo the same thing Neo asked God; why do you persist? why are you here? Neo says it is because he chooses; as such he knew it is inevitable that he "merge" with Smith to restore balance for all others.

As such; relative to your own experience, you are the single unbalanced anomaly in the whole of creation. If you don't see the symbolism regarding "Jesus Christ" in the Matrix (Trinity, entering within yourself, knowing you are the one, every man dies for his/her own imbalance which is the same imbalance of the entire world etc) then I'm not so sure how much more clear they could make it for you.

Even if you look at a movie like Inception; each individual is stuck in their own series of dreams (cycle of birth/death) while he/she works on the underlying internal issues. The last song "Time" in this movie, if you listen to the horns carefully near the end of it, are based on the simple phrase "wake up". It is as such that your media is telling you that you are living in a dream of your own making and to wake up from it you must enter within yourself.

So for me, the proof is actually everywhere in plain sight (the "Father" is constantly right in front of your eyes).

It must be noted that "truth" is eternal; it never changes. When Jesus tells you that it is the religious authorities that are keeping the keys of heaven from you, that doesn't just apply then, it applies now (Christianity included). Those who praise Jesus as God are actually committing idolatry as their authorities would have them do. I don't mean to blaspheme your savior, but your savior is meant to tell you that you are your own savior if you follow his teachings; he alone is just a man.

You are your own Savior,this is rather an old concept and belief.If Jesus was just a man then he was a liar and a charlatan,either that or he was a complete lunatic. Saving yourself is a way to live the way you wish without consequences,its a self righteous,self centered belief and a way to shake your fist at God and say "I will not humble myself before the creator".

 

[loverofjesus27]

I hope you have a sunbed in there, they like to stay orange.

I think i do too hihihi

 

[Dreamstate]

I think i do too hihihi

lol Ok then I guess all that you need to do is make sure you have plenty of chocolate in your home to pay them for being mischievous and singing their improvised songs.

 

[Enow]

This is my first post here; while I am not a "Christian", I am interested in the teachings of Jesus because they (seem to me) to involve very basic yogic principles.

#1. Your body is a lamp; you are the light of the world.
If your body is a "lamp" which is emitting its own "light", and "you" are the light of all that you perceive "the world", is this not the first yogic concept introduced to any initiate, that he/she experience everything as a part of themselves? It seems to me this analogy involving a lamp is rather straightforwardly suggesting the basis of your whole entire life experience is essentially yours / within you.
Science: Now knowing the "universe" contains no matter (it is all one energy), time (causality) is relative to the observer, consciousness itself is what collapses waveform potential into a definite state (observation), the cosmos is one gigantic hologram etc. does it not follow that every single individual *is* the light of their own world/experience?

By denying Him, a believer would be hiding his light in himself. In other words, Jesus Christ in believers is the light in them that is in the world. Non-christians that are in yoga, all their combined lights are nothing to the Light that is Jesus Christ.

John 1:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]He came unto his own, and his own received him not.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP] 13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

#2. The kingdom of heaven is within you.
If your five sense organs are all external bound (thereby only showing you creation as a means of comparison to you; not the way it actually is) then is not the only way to the "kingdom of heaven" to enter within yourself?
Science: The kingdom (as Jesus stated) is not a place you can point to (geographical place) as Jesus claimed; if individuals actively "create" their own experience through their own choices, does this not seem appropriate?

No. It is not appropriate. Here is why.

John 18:[SUP]36 [/SUP]Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Therefore visualizing creation around you by your five senses as a means to enter into that kingdom of heaven is not the way to enter into the kingdom of God that is above. Jesus is, by believing in Him.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So you do not bring yourself there by way of yoga; by believing Jesus Christ will do this is why Jesus will bring you there.

#3. The light of the body is the eye; if it be single/good, your whole body will fill with light.
If your "light" (perception) can only be increased by practicing the "single eye" (treating the whole of creation as one energy), is this not a fundamental yogic principle?

You have what Jesus had said backwards. It is from the heart on how your eye operates determines the light in you in being the light ( a witness of Him ) in the world.

Matthew 15:[SUP]19 [/SUP]For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: [SUP]20 [/SUP]These are the things which defile a man:

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;[SUP] 2 [/SUP]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

As religious mankind puts the emphasis on themselves to make themselves good and to do good in hoping by their efforts and merits that they will bring themselves to Heaven, so are you being religious in yoga in how you "think" that will bring you into Heaven. It will not. Jesus will and He can. Believe in Him.

Science: If the holographic universe you perceive is being "projected" outward from your own body, would it not follow that whatever manifests before you is merely a product of your own light?

Have you ever met a porn addict willing the image to become his wife before him? If they cannot do that in yoga, then all this supposition about what you are seeing is you, as what you think is you perceiving as willing into viewing, is just you plain lying to yourself.

#4. Nobody comes to the father except through me.
Given the fundamental yogic principles above, is it not proper that nobody comes to the "Father" unless he/she treats the whole of creation as one energy? Is this not why Jesus said he alone has no power or authority, only that which is granted by his "Father"? So, to the one who is "following" the God of Abraham narrative, when Jesus proclaims himself as the only way out of it all; could it not be true in the sense that one must understand the essential yoga associated with even learning to "pay attention" to creation? If you see the whole of creation as if it were a "Father" trying to teach you, how many are actually paying attention?

You are not hearing His words. Nobody comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. It is not on you by means of yoga, but by the only means provided by the Father and that is His Son. Jesus Christ will bring you Home above.

Science: It doesn't matter what "prompts" you to change your perspective and perceive the whole of creation as one; there is buddhism, taoism, yoga etc. Within the context of the God of Abraham narrative, Jesus' "yogic" principles are the same as any school of thought; you must treat the whole of creation as if it were occurring within yourself.

Self delusion, no matter what school of thought teaches it. Jesus had never taught yoga principles for His followers to look within themselves , but to look to Him to believe in Him.

#5. The Father is me; you are in me, and I am in you.
Jesus claimed he alone is just one man; indeed this is probably the most important point people seem to miss: by glorifying him beyond the status of "just a man", this teaching in particular becomes irrelevant. Jesus is saying the only difference between you and him is that he is "one with the Father", and that if you follow his teachings, you too will become one with the Father and perform works even better than he. What I find interesting here is Jesus (all throughout his ministry) insists that he is in you. If Jesus is in you, and everybody is waiting for the "second coming", why are you looking anywhere outside of yourselves? Is not the second coming to coincide with your own personal realization that you are as Jesus said you are; the one to be personal witness to the truth of his teachings if you seek it?
Science: This trinity idea is simply outlining that The father(1) is in Christ(2) who is also in you(3), thereby creating the one and only "link" to come to know "the Father". It is entering within yourself.

By believing in Him, all believers receives the promise that Jesus Christ is in them; they become a citizen of the kingdom of heaven above. BUT not every believer will be found abiding in Him as His disciple to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes at the re trib rapture event. That event is when God will judge His House first to restore the wayward and former believers to the path of righteosuness for His name's sake as well as reaping new believers that procrastinated in coming to & believing in Him, but will be left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So even when believers go astray or become former believers, Jesus will do this; He will bring them back to the fold, albeit, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for being left behind; disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper.

As no flesh shall glory in His Presence, no one in yoga is going to boast of bringing themselves there by their efforts in yoga.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]14 [/SUP]I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.[SUP] 17 [/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God............[SUP]21 [/SUP]For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.......[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.[SUP] 30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:[SUP] 31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

So no one in yoga, no one in catholicism, no one in keeping the sabbath day, no one keeping ther commitment to follow Christ or any promises to God and to men to do good and be good is going to glory in themselves in the kingdom of Heaven. Jesus Christ has made them wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: and if they do not repent of this looking to oneself in bringing themselves into the kingdom of Heaven, they will be left behind to be received later on by Him as vessels unto dishonr in His House as a testimony on how any believer had come into the kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[SUP] 22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So place all your hopes in the Lord, and not in yourselves. It is Jesus Christ in you that is bringing you Home; not yoga.

1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,[SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

When God the Father sees a believer in Heaven above, He is seeing Christ in that former sinner and Jesus is the ONLY GOOD & BEAUTIFUL LIGHT in each believer that God the Father sees in Heaven.

Colossians 1:[SUP]27 [/SUP]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:[SUP] 28 [/SUP]Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;[SUP]23 [/SUP]And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

May all believers in Jesus Christ know that the principles of yoga are vain for bringing any one into the kingdom of Heaven when we are to keep the faith in Jesus Christ ( and we need His help to do even that too ) in bringing us Home above.

[HR][/HR][video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]

 

[justoneman]

Thanks for the response; I will make my best attempt to respond.

Welcome! I'd like to make a few points about your post. First off "people of the book" is an Islamic term for Christians and Jews, it is not a Christian term.I just wanted to point that out first.

I agree with this, I will correct my use of "people of the book" as any individual who uses the God of Abraham narrative (Torah/Bible/Qur'an) as a basis for their belief. I don't mean in it the same way Islam uses it; but as we well know, Islam is backwards on many of its stances.

Now you say that good and evil is simply relative. Therefore that would mean that there are no absolutes in life and we know this is not true. We know it was evil of Hitler to murder the Jews,thats an absolute,whether he thought he was right or wrong it was murder. Its wrong to take what doesn't belong to you,if you dont think so,go take all you neighbor has and see how long it takes for the police to show up. So we know that truth is not relative and there are absolutes. God said not to eat the fruit because once they did innocence would be lost,they were living in paradise but once they ate the fruit their eyes were opened and sin entered the world. The "human predicament" as you call it is this,we are sinners in need of a Savior. Death is not an illusion and one day we will answer for the life we have lived.

I do not agree with what you are suggesting here; when you refer to "absolutes", I am going to take that to mean "truths", because truth is eternal/absolute. "Good" and "Evil" are not absolute; they are relative to the observer, thus temporary, thus never "absolute". If you treat such situations as Fascism as "inherently evil", I feel one is at risk of also missing the lesson that is to be derived from such situations. For example, the same atmosphere which gave rise to fascism in the mid-20th century (discrediting open press, rise of powerful dictators etc) is being repeated now. If we didn't have any example(s) from which to derive "why" fascism is bad, we would never know it to be so. It is as such, "good" and "evil" are relative to the observer; we can all agree what Hitler did was "insane", but to label it as "evil" would be to deny the "good" lessons which are meant to be derived from it. For example, the lesson learned with Hitler should be the same lesson as it relates to the consideration of Islam; fascism causes suffering.

I will give a Biblical example involving animal sacrifice; God had the people sacrifice animals in the early days. Most people nowadays treat this as "evil", but when you consider "why" God began instilling the idea of animal sacrifice into the minds of humans, it was to eventually lead them to the realization that the "true" animal sacrifice must take place within; sacrificing our own animal nature. Unfortunately, some Jews and Muslims didn't get that (as a result of poor literacy) and they continue to actually sacrifice real animals.

​If the Bible is not inerrant then it cannot be trusted and nothing within its pages can be certain.We can't know if Jesus did die for our sins,we can't know whether God even exists. If the Bible can be wrong in one book it can be wrong in another.Its no different than any other book and is just some good fictional reading if what you say is true.There are a lot easier ways to control the masses than to invent a god, just read history.

You have two options when it comes to the Bible:

a) It is the "infallible" God's account of the fallible man, or
b) It is the fallible man's account of the "infallible" God

The problem in this is (yet again) relative to the observer; what are you willing (choice) to accept as evidence? The only evidence that should be permissible is evidence that any individual can directly test for himself/herself. As such, the (scientific) teachings of Jesus are a means to do that; but all else should be treated accordingly.

[/FONT]

You are correct,Im glad you understand that. But there's more to it.See the "dogma" as you put it is Gods saving grace,His plan of redemption for man.Why try to know the Father if you do not believe what He said? Again,its like reading fiction,it has no bearing on your life. So why bother trying to know anything about Him?

But what I am suggesting is, to "know the Father" is simply to treat the whole of existence as one energy. Once that is in place, what you refer to as "God's saving grace" or "plan for redemption" is still being taught through the lends of dogmatism. Once it becomes a living reality for you, such dogma completely vanishes; like a fog disrupting the range of your view. Jesus said his "return" would bring the complete destruction of all false temples of worship; indeed, to be "one with the Father" would bring this about; as you no longer rely on any single piece of writing because you have something better now; a direct relationship.

​Well thats rather a lot of who shot John,and Im not trying to be snide about it.It seems you have a very complicated,intellectual and rather self serving belief system. And really Im not trying to offend you. You can believe or disbelieve whatever you wish,but as we stated above there are absolutes in life.One of those absolutes is that sin brings death,and I assure you,death is no illusion. The Father is someone you can know,and not just know,you can have a very personal relationship with Him. And why would you not want to? Is it perhaps that you wish to live the way you want with no consequences? I do not know and I cannot speak for you. But I hope you look deeper into knowing the Father instead of making up your own belief system and playing on the fringes.

It is not complicated; it is simple: the entirety of your experience is within you. You are (relative to your own experience) literally the light of the world you perceive; yoga literally means "union", and attaining this ends the cycle of birth and death (liberation or muchti as Hindus call it). In this sense it is extremely simple; the biggest obstacle is acceptance.

When you say "self-serving"; is this not the point of what "religion" is; a system of thought that enables an individual to enhance his/her own perception of the creation as it is? How is self-serving a bad thing in this case?

Take for example the tree of knowledge of good/evil (or tree of worldly desires of you are Muslim). God placed the flaming sword about the tree of life "lest man live forever" in his/her own ignorance.

The tree is poison; it causes ignorance and inability to see the creation just the way it is. As such, when you eat from it, you enter varying states of ignorance. It is this ignorance (inability to perceive all as one) which perpetuates your cycle of birth and death. Death, then, is the liberation from (what would otherwise be) a perpetual state of ignorance/destruction. It is for this reason God placed the flaming sword about the tree of life; if you are ignorant, but have eternal life, you will only generate an eternal state of suffering and eventual destruction.

When Moses delivered the people from the hands of the pharaoh, God gave Moses the ten commandments. He even gave them to Moses engraved in stone; as if to suggest these commandments are as solid as stone. The people broke them all; so Moses smashed the tablets in kind; as if to say such are the generations from here onward who have "detached" themselves from "the Father". You look in the world you are living; there is killing, rape, bearing false witness, idolatry etc. To return to such a state of being one with the "Father", one must be literate and understand "why" those commandments are as they are; to start calling things "good" and "evil" actually only creates an obstacle; rather than perceiving all as one.

 

[kaylagrl]

Quote "I do not agree with what you are suggesting here; when you refer to "absolutes", I am going to take that to mean "truths", because truth is eternal/absolute. "Good" and "Evil" are not absolute; they are relative to the observer, thus temporary, thus never "absolute". If you treat such situations as Fascism as "inherently evil", I feel one is at risk of also missing the lesson that is to be derived from such situations. For example, the same atmosphere which gave rise to fascism in the mid-20th century (discrediting open press, rise of powerful dictators etc) is being repeated now. If we didn't have any example(s) from which to derive "why" fascism is bad, we would never know it to be so. It is as such, "good" and "evil" are relative to the observer; we can all agree what Hitler did was "insane", but to label it as "evil" would be to deny the "good" lessons which are meant to be derived from it. For example, the lesson learned with Hitler should be the same lesson as it relates to the consideration of Islam; fascism causes suffering.

I will give a Biblical example involving animal sacrifice; God had the people sacrifice animals in the early days. Most people nowadays treat this as "evil", but when you consider "why" God began instilling the idea of animal sacrifice into the minds of humans, it was to eventually lead them to the realization that the "true" animal sacrifice must take place within; sacrificing our own animal nature. Unfortunately, some Jews and Muslims didn't get that (as a result of poor literacy) and they continue to actually sacrifice real animals."



Whew! We need to make our responses shorter.lol Thank you for understanding my point about the term "people of the book". I appreciate it.

I think this time around I may be asking more questions and for clarity. When you speak of fascism being repeated now,what do you mean? When I speak of absolutes I mean something is wrong or it is right. If I murder you but I dont think murder is wrong do you think the judge would agree with that? So that is what I mean by absolutes. Im not sure what you mean by "good lessons" we can learn from Hitler. What he did was inherently evil. Fascism does cause suffering because it is evil. To call evil what it is does not take away from any lesson learned. Perhaps Im missing your point here.

In the OT sacrificing animals was foreshadowing the coming of Christ,the spotless Lamb that would take away sin.Jews,some,still do so today because they are still looking for the Messiah. They are misinformed,but they are not evil. And that would not relate to say,the Holocaust. Again,if evil is in the eye of the beholder then there is no reason for a court system,we'll all just do what we believe to be right. And if I dont see murder,rape or stealing as wrong then how can anyone condemn me to a life in prison.See my point?


To your point about the Bible being infallible you missed a third option, an infallible God using His Spirit to lead fallible men to write His infallible Word. Follow me? Because if the Bible is wrong in one part,it could be wrong in another and then we can know nothing for sure. So why follow a book that is no different than any other? I might as well live my life according to People Magazine as to follow a Bible that is full of holes and errors. Btw a good book to read is "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". You can certainly test the Bible,it has stood the test of time.

To your last point,you can have that personal relationship now! You don't need to wait. There is nothing obstructing you. You keep referring to dogma,could you explain what you mean by that? Not the word itself,but what dogma is it that you are specifically opposed to?

 

[justoneman]

You are your own Savior,this is rather an old concept and belief.If Jesus was just a man then he was a liar and a charlatan,either that or he was a complete lunatic. Saving yourself is a way to live the way you wish without consequences,its a self righteous,self centered belief and a way to shake your fist at God and say "I will not humble myself before the creator".

I know it would seem this way; I'll try to clarify what I means to be ones "own savior".

I do not suggest this to mean an individual even has any innate ability to "save themselves". I'm rather suggesting the opposite; there is only "one way", which is to turn inward and perceive the whole of creation as "one"; however, this should never entail stopping your conscious awareness that what you are "actually" perceiving is a duality created by yourself in "relation" to "the Father". It is as such that the importance of perceiving the creation as "one" would naturally lead one to understand that it is in comparison to "creation" or "the Father"; that's the duality. To become "one with the Father" is to understand the basis of this relationship: what you perceive is relative to you as per the "Father" or "creation". This is why enhancing perception and seeing things just the way they are are important; if you can't see things just the way they are, how to react appropriately to them? If "the Father" is the source of creation, and creation is happening inside of you right now, whatever "the Father" manifests is intended for you, because it is created by you; that's to be one with "the Father" message as I understand it by the (non-dogmatic) concepts outlined by Jesus.

Now consider this;

When you dream at night; have you ever actually thought about what is occurring? It is no small thing.

Here, there is an innate source of creation which allows you to simultaneously manufacture an experience and experience it at the same time; all without the use of any external resources besides everything that is already contained within your "self".

Now, there are two states of a dream: unconscious and conscious (lucid). If you are not aware you are dreaming, your actions/reactions (despite the dream being manufactured by yourself) will be based on your "normal" impulses; fight or flight. If you are aware that you are dreaming, you recognize everything is being manufactured by you "that you are actually asleep in the "real" world) and you manifest whatever you think of.

This internal mechanism is the very source of creation itself. Right now, you believe it is off because you are "awake", but it is the same as the mechanism which generates your "internal" experiences in your dream state. This internal "creator" is the one guiding your experience; and the only way to come to "tame" it or know the Father is to understand there is a relationship between your inner world and your "exterior" world. The illusion is just that both are internal, the "external" is just the physical consequence of the internal.

So by "own savior", the component of turning inward is necessary; but the process itself involves a relationship and recognition of the relationship as "personal"; because Father or no Father, that's what it is. Those who do not perceive all as one are simply "denying" christ (I use as a verb; the internal christening).

Now there is a member who posted a long reply to my OP; I respect your right to your own beliefs (as I hope those to mine in same kind) but I feel your reply as suitable for the kind of "dogmatic" ideologies which result from powerful empires and their texts. While your stance might be one that involves Jesus Christ himself as the only way; I would suggest this to be exactly the type of thinking the authorities would have you believe. Truth is inevitable; it is a natural consequence over time (each life is self-contained and will witness it for themselves), thus it will come to every one. But fundamentally; what is true (there is only one energy) may not always be pleasant, and what is pleasant (God will save you if you do as he says) may not always be true. As such I do not treat Jesus in the same high regard as you do; as I might suggest this portrayal of Jesus by the Roman Empire to be a form of idolatry; which in the case of your perception of Jesus is rather dangerous I find.

 

[Blain]

Justoneman I understand the gist of what your saying and like I said before the way you put things has my interest, I can clearly see insight in your reasoning even though you are not a Christian and I like how your train of thought. I do however know that my understanding is different than yours in the belief of God but I cannot deny the insightfulness I see in your words.

I like the idea of humanism the idea of putting aside ourselves and working for the better of humankind, I have known some people who are what you may call scientific humanists they put aside their own selfish views and desires and do whatever they can to help others and to help to make a difference in the world for the better of mankind and future generations they don't believe in an after live to them you live and then rot in ground but they make the active decision to live their limited time alive to make a difference. They normally don't like Christians but they like me and they like the ten commandments in the bible and live by them not because it's what God commands but because it's just the way people should act and treat each other.

I agree that we all have our own light that shines, I mean even before I was a Christian I could see that people seemed to give off their own kind of vibe, and their own ways of seeing and their own ways of thinking was often the kind of vibe I got from them and so some people I could just walk up to and talk to others I knew to stay away from. Whether we are religious or not the fact is how we see things and what we believe and think is what forms who we are and what we become, and experience from the past whether good or bad whether your religious or not can either be a learning experience or you can let it tear you down. That's why I like psychology because in understanding the inner most train of thoughts and why people think and act the way they do not only do I gain a better understanding of how the world works but i also learn a lot about myself

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is my first post here; while I am not a "Christian", I am interested in the teachings of Jesus because they (seem to me) to involve very basic yogic principles.

We would like to welcome anyone who is interested in the teachings of Jesus. However, you cannot rightly understand or apply those teachings unless He is in you and you are in Him. Which requires the New Birth.

#1. Your body is a lamp; you are the light of the world..

This applies only to those who are children of God and disciples of Christ.

...does it not follow that every single individual *is* the light of their own world/experience?

Unfortunately, the vast majority of humanity is in darkness, since without Christ dwelling within, there is no light.

#2. The kingdom of heaven is within you.

This ties is with #1. The Kingdom of Heaven can be seen and entered into only by those who experience the New Birth. See John 3:3-5. That is why the New Birth is imperative for every human being.

...if individuals actively "create" their own experience through their own choices, does this not seem appropriate?

Once again, individuals without Christ cannot understand the Kingdom of God, which means that Christ is King, Lord, Master, Ruler in their lives and in their hearts.

#3. The light of the body is the eye; if it be single/good, your whole body will fill with light.

The spiritual “eye” of a person can only be “single” when it is focused on Christ as his or her Savior and Lord. It is only by obedience to Christ and His written Word that our bodies, souls, and spirits can be filled with “light”. “Light” speaks of (a) the truth of God, (b) the righteousness of God, and (c) the holiness of God. Only the indwelling Holy Spirit can produce this “light” to guide the individual into truth and righteousness.

...would it not follow that whatever manifests before you is merely a product of your own light?

As already mentioned, people who do not have Christ and the Holy Spirit within can only walk in darkness. That does not mean that they are continually evil, but they can never be as perfect as God, and that is the perfection He demands in order for anyone to enter Heaven.

#4. Nobody comes to the father except through me.

There it is in black and white. The only way to approach and be in fellowship with God the Father is through God the Son (Jesus). And the only way to come to God is by believing and acknowledging that (1) you are a sinner separated from God, and without Christ you will be eternally separated from Him; (2) that Christ died for your personal sins and rose again for your person justification (that you might be right with God and righteous before God); (3) that you must repent when you turn to Christ, which means turning away from (and turning your back on) all your sins, idols, and false notions about God and humanity; (4) that you must unreservedly believe that Jesus is God, who must become your Lord and Savior; and (5) by receiving Him into your soul as your personal Lord and Savior.

...you must treat the whole of creation as if it were occurring within yourself.

In view of the above, this would be pure delusion.

#5. The Father is me; you are in me, and I am in you...Jesus is saying the only difference between you and him is that he is "one with the Father", and that if you follow his teachings, you too will become one with the Father and perform works even better than he..

No one can follow the teachings of Christ unless Christ dwells within Him. But what Jesus said about being in the Father is a revelation that Jesus is God, and this is the Mystery of God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equally God, so while God is one, He also exists as three Divine Persons. This is unfathomable by the human mind and must be accepted by faith. However, unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus is in fact Almighty God who died on the Cross for your sins, His teachings will be of no avail. First of all you must be saved by grace through faith, and only then can you do the good works which arise from the Holy Spirit within.

#6. I am the Alpha and Omega; ...

When Jesus said that He is the Alpha and the Omega, He was reinforcing the fact that He is the Lord God Almighty. Please note (Rev 1:8): I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[justoneman]

Whew! We need to make our responses shorter.lol Thank you for understanding my point about the term "people of the book". I appreciate it.

I think this time around I may be asking more questions and for clarity. When you speak of fascism being repeated now,what do you mean? When I speak of absolutes I mean something is wrong or it is right. If I murder you but I dont think murder is wrong do you think the judge would agree with that? So that is what I mean by absolutes. Im not sure what you mean by "good lessons" we can learn from Hitler. What he did was inherently evil. Fascism does cause suffering because it is evil. To call evil what it is does not take away from any lesson learned. Perhaps Im missing your point here.

In the United States, the election of Donald Trump (his own inner quality being white nationalist) has appealed to the masses who share the same quality. It is for this reason that the U.S. is seen by the rest of the world as a disaster in the making. This (perhaps) is why China isn't holding North Korea accountable for their nuclear aggression.

Now regarding wrong or right, I simply don't share your acknowledgement of these being absolute. Even in science, no claim is portrayed as 100% true; the only term they use is "how likely" etc. It is as such "right" and "wrong" for me actually means "better" or "worse". For example, if you do something you think is "right", such as give someone money, and they spend that money on drugs, your "right" action ended in someone else dying. In such a case, I don't see giving them "money" as right, I ask "what is better than?" I might then decide to help get them enrolled in rehab.In the OT sacrificing animals was foreshadowing the coming of Christ,the spotless Lamb that would take away sin.Jews,some,still do so today because they are still looking for the Messiah. They are misinformed,but they are not evil. And that would not relate to say,the Holocaust. Again,if evil is in the eye of the beholder then there is no reason for a court system,we'll all just do what we believe to be right. And if I dont see murder,rape or stealing as wrong then how can anyone condemn me to a life in prison.See my point?

...because CHRIST only comes when you sacrifice YOUR OWN ANIMAL NATURE WITHIN YOURSELF. That's precisely why the Jews look so ridiculous STILL sacrificing real animals, not realizing CHRIST ONLY COMES WHEN THE ANIMAL WITHIN IS SACRIFICED. That's the whole point of the story; rather embarrassingly they miss after all these years.

Please people; when you read your Bible; read it as an INTERNAL NARRATIVE. For example Exodus didn't actually happen; but it's a story you're meant to understand (if you are literate) in order to liberate yourselves from the same bondage you're experiencing now; all of the power being on the top and oppressing you. It's just that, literacy is required. How bad is it? The West (Europe) is falling to a religion based on the teachings of an illiterate man. Coincidence? You need to understand the narrative.

To your point about the Bible being infallible you missed a third option, an infallible God using His Spirit to lead fallible men to write His infallible Word. Follow me? Because if the Bible is wrong in one part,it could be wrong in another and then we can know nothing for sure. So why follow a book that is no different than any other? I might as well live my life according to People Magazine as to follow a Bible that is full of holes and errors. Btw a good book to read is "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". You can certainly test the Bible,it has stood the test of time.

It depends on how much "authority" you give to the Bible, and by what means. For example my "base" when approaching the Bible is; it is just a collection of other books written thousands of years ago by multiple sources. As such, I treat it with much skepticism; because these are the same "books" humanity has based itself on through the last few thousand years of what seems like non-stop war. If despite such a bloody history you believe these books to be "infallible", your own reasoning will have found a way to sufficiently prove it to you so; including the texts the authorities of these empires hand to their peoples.

To your last point,you can have that personal relationship now! You don't need to wait. There is nothing obstructing you. You keep referring to dogma,could you explain what you mean by that? Not the word itself,but what dogma is it that you are specifically opposed to?

See it's like this:

How do you control people? You can only control people if you can predict their behavior. You can only predict their behavior if you know how they think/operate. If how they think/operate generates a pattern, it can be abused over long periods of time.

This is how dogma controls people: if you collapse into a particular "belief" shared by many, you create a discernible pattern in your behavior. These patterns are predictable by the authorities because RELIGION was made by these same authorities in order to control you. They continue to fund wars in attempt to spread their own extremist ideologies; the people of religion or "group think" are but the pawns; what he/she is willing to die for. Why do you think Muslims scream Allahu Akbar before they suicide bomb a Christian church? It's because their own "concept" of God, as dictated to them BY THEIR AUTHORITIES has convinced them that dying in this manner (the cause of Allah) is the best way someone can die (martyrdom).

Christianity is not different in my mind; the only difference is, Jesus' (original) teachings actually did contain truth before the authorities got their hands on it all. To believe Jesus is coming back to save you because of your "belief" in him sounds rather bizarre to me; the whole point of the teaching was that he is in you! It's like they flipped it a full 180 degrees and made it into exactly what it is not; they do say the devil likes to make light as dark and dark as light!

[/QUOTE]

 

[Dreamstate]

I wrote in some of my diary the other day, some of my experience was in it, not all like in the flesh of my brain and the rest of body like my teeth, but some.

 

[Dreamstate]

I like to think of my words as like footprints of some of my experience.

 

[Dreamstate]

Here, open wide and swallow some of my experience, you can own some of it, don't spit it out.

 

[Blain]

I like to think of my words as like footprints of some of my experience.

Words are an interesting topic to discuss specifically the power they have how they affect people. The tongue can be a whip or it can be medicine and very few people consider exactly how far just one remark can go in the lives of others.
I like to envision my words in this way, my words can be a blade that cut down, stab and hack and slash but for every blade that can inflict wounds there is also a blade that helps to mend wounds, so I often ask myself which of these are my words mostly doing?

 

[justoneman]

We would like to welcome anyone who is interested in the teachings of Jesus. However, you cannot rightly understand or apply those teachings unless He is in you and you are in Him. Which requires the New Birth.


This applies only to those who are children of God and disciples of Christ.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of humanity is in darkness, since without Christ dwelling within, there is no light.

No offense, but to me this sounds extremely cult; I suppose the next thing someone asks is "how do I join?"

This ties is with #1. The Kingdom of Heaven can be seen and entered into only by those who experience the New Birth. See John 3:3-5. That is why the New Birth is imperative for every human being.

I understand the "new birth" to be an internal process that happens to every human being; the bible describes it as the "first death" etc. I don't find anything particularly "Christian" about it, other than they attempted to create an entire religion about it.

Once again, individuals without Christ cannot understand the Kingdom of God, which means that Christ is King, Lord, Master, Ruler in their lives and in their hearts.

See this is exactly idolatry; see Moses.

The spiritual “eye” of a person can only be “single” when it is focused on Christ as his or her Savior and Lord. It is only by obedience to Christ and His written Word that our bodies, souls, and spirits can be filled with “light”. “Light” speaks of (a) the truth of God, (b) the righteousness of God, and (c) the holiness of God. Only the indwelling Holy Spirit can produce this “light” to guide the individual into truth and righteousness.

I'm sorry, but not even Jesus taught this. This is coming from your authorities.

As already mentioned, people who do not have Christ and the Holy Spirit within can only walk in darkness. That does not mean that they are continually evil, but they can never be as perfect as God, and that is the perfection He demands in order for anyone to enter Heaven.

I agree; however I feel you're associating the concept of "Christ" (verb) with (once again) what your authorities have told you. Christ (verb) is an internal happening regardless of Christianity; if you walk in darkness, you will anyway manifest into a dark world. If you walk in "light", or awareness, you will understand (over time) that you are creating (or perpetuating if you are in dogma) your own experience.

There it is in black and white. The only way to approach and be in fellowship with God the Father is through God the Son (Jesus). And the only way to come to God is by believing and acknowledging that (1) you are a sinner separated from God, and without Christ you will be eternally separated from Him; (2) that Christ died for your personal sins and rose again for your person justification (that you might be right with God and righteous before God); (3) that you must repent when you turn to Christ, which means turning away from (and turning your back on) all your sins, idols, and false notions about God and humanity; (4) that you must unreservedly believe that Jesus is God, who must become your Lord and Savior; and (5) by receiving Him into your soul as your personal Lord and Savior.

This is just dogma; this is essentially a salesman asking for your entire soul, promising you a good deal if you actually give it. I'm sorry but this is the exact kind of contortion the authorities have made to distract from the true teachings; which rather funnily, would render your "need" for any religion (and dogma) absolutely unnecessary.

In view of the above, this would be pure delusion.


No one can follow the teachings of Christ unless Christ dwells within Him. But what Jesus said about being in the Father is a revelation that Jesus is God, and this is the Mystery of God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equally God, so while God is one, He also exists as three Divine Persons. This is unfathomable by the human mind and must be accepted by faith. However, unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus is in fact Almighty God who died on the Cross for your sins, His teachings will be of no avail. First of all you must be saved by grace through faith, and only then can you do the good works which arise from the Holy Spirit within.

If you believe Jesus is God; they have you hook, line and sinker. Jesus said he alone is just one man; yet another example of how your authorities have completely flipped the teaching upon its own head.

When Jesus said that He is the Alpha and the Omega, He was reinforcing the fact that He is the Lord God Almighty. Please note (Rev 1:8): I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

I'm sorry, but Jesus never said he was God; it is only people like you (and other "authority" Christians) believe Jesus was God. The whole point of understanding his teachings is to know he alone was just one man; because he is in you (you are just a man/woman). The whole point is to get you to enter within yourself and establish the relationship with "creation" directly, thereby becoming one with the "Father".

This doesn't involve dogma, cult-like "chosen" peoples, initiations etc. It involves yourself, and creation, nothing more.

 

[Blain]

I'm sorry, but Jesus never said he was God; it is only people like you (and other "authority" Christians) believe Jesus was God. The whole point of understanding his teachings is to know he alone was just one man; because he is in you (you are just a man/woman). The whole point is to get you to enter within yourself and establish the relationship with "creation" directly, thereby becoming one with the "Father".

This doesn't involve dogma, cult-like "chosen" peoples, initiations etc. It involves yourself, and creation, nothing more.

True he never said he was God but he certainly implied it, I don't anything about being an authority Christian or anything but Jesus would often say your sins are forgiven and then the Pharisee who may have done so as an attack was not wrong in saying how only God can forgive sins

 

[Dreamstate]

Words are an interesting topic to discuss specifically the power they have how they affect people. The tongue can be a whip or it can be medicine and very few people consider exactly how far just one remark can go in the lives of others.
I like to envision my words in this way, my words can be a blade that cut down, stab and hack and slash but for every blade that can inflict wounds there is also a blade that helps to mend wounds, so I often ask myself which of these are my words mostly doing?

I admire your self-reflection.

 

[Blain]

I admire your self-reflection.

Well that is not something I can take credit for, in my journey with God he showed me that self reflection is very important not in a judgmental way but in a learning kind of way. I have always felt that David who wrote good portion of the book of Psalms and I were kindred spirits and in his request to God Psalm 139:23-24

23
Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24
See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting. My soul resonated with this prayer and I found myself asking him the same thing and boy did he answer but he also did more than that, he also taught me things like what I wrote in my post above about words.

 

[Dreamstate]

Well that is not something I can take credit for, in my journey with God he showed me that self reflection is very important not in a judgmental way but in a learning kind of way. I have always felt that David who wrote good portion of the book of Psalms and I were kindred spirits and in his request to God Psalm 139:23-24

23
Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24
See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting. My soul resonated with this prayer and I found myself asking him the same thing and boy did he answer but he also did more than that, he also taught me things like what I wrote in my post above about words.

hahahaahahah I see.

 

[justoneman]

Words are an interesting topic to discuss specifically the power they have how they affect people. The tongue can be a whip or it can be medicine and very few people consider exactly how far just one remark can go in the lives of others.
I like to envision my words in this way, my words can be a blade that cut down, stab and hack and slash but for every blade that can inflict wounds there is also a blade that helps to mend wounds, so I often ask myself which of these are my words mostly doing?

One of my hobbies is music; I understand music and spoken language to be the same thing; expression. The same manner a composer will create a "shape" etched into a moving framework of time is exactly the same as speech; etching shapes via vibrations which travel from one being to another.

With music I pay attention to every single mark, accent etc. because they are what gives the piece a particular shape. Likewise with researching Hinduism, Buddhism, Jesus, Krishna etc. I always look for what is common among them all; how many different peoples used the same fundamental concepts? They may have employed them differently, and given them different narratives, but fundamentally it is expression of the same thing; the human experience.

But, when it comes to the power of words; I don't give others the power to determine what happens within myself; offense is not only given, but it is taken also; there is thus a dual nature to it. I don't allow others to offend me because when it comes to what happens within me, I am in complete control of that. When it comes to what I say offending others; while I don't intend to (I speak plainly and give little regard to so-called "political correctness"), if they choose to take offense; that is a choice they make within themselves, not mine.

Because ultimately, whatever you have taken up as your own identity is what your intellect will try to protect. If I "offend" someone, it is because their own identity feels threatened in a way; which is as a result of becoming identified with something that is not you, which is Moses' real meaning of idol worship. Not the physical kind which is only a manifestation of an internal type of worship.