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Thread: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

  1. #241
    Senior Member IamWhoIam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    Why then, does God create those who He will not draw to Him (if we have no choice)?
    God doesn't create the minds of those who will not draw to Him, it is of evil that creates the minds of those who don't draw to God.

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    Senior Member 1ofthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    What's the difference? Isn't that what faith is?
    Hebrews 11:1King James Version (KJV)

    11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    The scripture you quoted said... He done what he SAW the Father do.

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    No person comes to to the Son,unless the Father draws them.

    No person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost.

    Every person that confesses Jesus Christ is come in flesh,is of God.

    Many are called,but few are chosen,and not many wise after the flesh,and not many mighty,and not many noble,are called.

    God knows the heart condition of every person on earth,and if their heart condition is in the right position,God will call them,and work with them to go towards the truth.

    We have to have faith when we confess Christ,but God intervened in our life to make it easier to go in the direction of truth,so while we have to have faith,there is help from God to see the truth more clearly than on our own.

    But this faith still has to come from us,but God helped us along the way when He called us,but not as much help as a person that has received the Spirit.

    When a person receives the Spirit then they have more help,and witness,that can increase their faith,for the Spirit will show them things,and work in their life,that exceeds when they were called,when God was working with them.

    When a person is called,God works with them to get them to the truth,but the faith still has to come from them,but they had help from God,for no person comes to the Son,unless the Father draws them,but after they have the Spirit,then their faith will increase,for God is working a lot more in their life than when they were first called.

    God gets the glory for us being saved,when we are first called,until we receive the Spirit,that is why He chose us,we did not choose Him,for before we knew God in the truth,God called us,and worked with us,and we could of not gotten to the truth with His intervention.

    Many claim Christianity,but not all got to the point of truth,but many have been called,and they can still have the opportunity to see truth,for God will still work with them.

    Many are called,but few are chosen,for not everybody that has been called get to the point of being chosen,for they never accepted the truth,and received the truth,although their heart condition was right enough to be called.
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    Senior Member IamWhoIam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    What's the difference? Isn't that what faith is?
    If you look out your window and see the home across from your home, is it faith that tells you it is there across the street or is it your physical eyes that tells you it is across the street.

    If you see with your eyes the home across from yours how much faith do you need to know it's there across the street.
    1ofthem and 7seasrekeyed like this.

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by IamWhoIam View Post
    God doesn't create the minds of those who will not draw to Him, it is of evil that creates the minds of those who don't draw to God.
    But if God is in control of everything where does "of evil" come from?
    And "won't draw to God" if He doesn't give them the desire to?

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    Senior Member 1ofthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    But if God is in control of everything where does "of evil" come from?
    And "won't draw to God" if He doesn't give them the desire to?
    He gives everyone a chance... it's up to them whether they take it or not.

    We can choose light or darkness... it's up to us to accept God or not.
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    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    ​Hi Davida,

    God wants all to come to the knowledge of the truth. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

    The invitation is open to all. He reveals Himself to all. If Christ be lifted up, He draws all men to Him. But not all when drawn will accept Christ by faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    Why then, does God create those who He will not draw to Him (if we have no choice)?
    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    But earlier in the
    Thread it was said that God gives the desire and that choice makes it human effort?
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  9. #249
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    A lady named Angela said it.

    I would like to believe that He not just arbitrarily picking, that does not seem just.
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    Senior Member 1ofthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    But earlier in the
    Thread it was said that God gives the desire and that choice makes it human effort?
    People have different beliefs. I can't tell you why or what exactly someone else believes. I can only tell you my belief and take on it. That's why it is so important to pray and read the word of God for yourself and let him guide you. Don't depend on me or anyone else for your understanding but look to and depend up on the Lord.

    With that being said I will post this one scripture again even though it has already been posted.
    John 12:32
    And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    But if God is in control of everything where does "of evil" come from?
    And "won't draw to God" if He doesn't give them the desire to?
    1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
    Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    God wants all people to be saved,and come to the knowledge of the truth,and anybody can have that salvation,because we have a choice,because God's kingdom is love.

    Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

    1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

    God knows the heart condition of everyone on earth,and if their heart condition is in the right position,then God will call them,which some people's hearts are not in the right position,for they do not have too much care for other people,and in to self exaltation too much.

    When a person is called,God will work in their life to try to get them to the truth.

    Many are called,but few are chosen,which means we have a choice in the matter of salvation,for if not then all God called would be chosen,for He is working in their life to get the to the truth,but not all make it to that truth,so obviously we have a choice in our salvation.

    For if God calls them,and is working with them,and they are not chosen,it is is obvious they had a choice in the matter,and never accepted the truth,or fell short of it,for it is not God's fault that was working in their life that they did not accept,or fell short,so it must be the person's fault,so they had a choice.

    God wants all people to be saved,and anybody can have that salvation,and many are called,but few are chosen,so it is obvious we have a choice in the matter of salvation.

    When God calls a person He works with them to try to get them to the truth,but not all are chosen,so it is obvious that we have a choice in our salvation.

    God wants all people to come to the truth,and be saved,and many are called,but few are chosen.

    We have a choice in our salvation.

    And the saints predestined to salvation means that God already had the plan of salvation for mankind,before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if this salvation already was in the beginning,the same as the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although it was future,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,although it was future,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surly come to pass with no hindrance,and this salvation is to whoever wants that salvation.

    The Spirit,and bride,say,anybody can have that salvation.

    God did not choose in the beginning,for many are called,but few are chosen,so God does the calling,and choosing on earth.

    If God chose in the beginning,then how did He call them in the beginning,and why would God call some people,and not choose them.

    Because we have a choice in the matter of salvation,for God is good,not evil,and His kingdom is love,not robotic love.

    So it written,so let it be believed.Amen.

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    But if God is in control of everything where does "of evil" come from?
    And "won't draw to God" if He doesn't give them the desire to?
    There is only one thing God created that went rogue, corrupted per say, and from that one thing the many have been discieved and won't draw to God by that one thing that doesn't want the many to draw to God.
    1ofthem likes this.

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by IamWhoIam View Post
    God doesn't create the minds of those who will not draw to Him, it is of evil that creates the minds of those who don't draw to God.
    Wait a minute. Did you just say there is more than one creator? Evil creates?

    YIKES!
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Wait a minute. Did you just say there is more than one creator? Evil creates?

    YIKES!
    i think you know very well what I mean do you or don't you?
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    Senior Member IamWhoIam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    A nuclear power plant is useful for supplying energy to homes correct?

    a nuclear bomb is useful for what?
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    A lady named Angela said it.

    I would like to believe that He not just arbitrarily picking, that does not seem just.
    God is perfectly just. His just says break one law (sin) and you deserve separation from him, death, and hell.

    So, are you the one-and-only who doesn't deserve that? We all deserve that and were already sentenced at that first sin.

    But, he also created the scapegoat clause. (Literally.) If I have never lied, and you have, I can take on your sentence for you. (Alas, I have lied too, so no can do, even if I was willing.) But, who has only sinned once, so we deserve the same sentence for many things. And who has never done all, or any, of the sins?

    One person! One person once, and he's God too. He took on the guilt. He literally was separated from the Father and Holy Spirit for the first time in eternity. Imagine that one in itself. Perfect loving unity -- a joy fest in eternity with God -- and then have that stripped away for even a moment. So Jesus was separated from the Godhead. He also died. Real agonizing pain too. And he went to hell. All that and he wasn't even guilty of one small sin!

    He took on the entire punishment for "whosoever the Father has given me."

    I admit it. I wish he'd save everyone too. But, dagnabit. I was released from God's justice by God taking on that justice, and have been given his mercy, love, and adoption into the eternal joy fest.

    Yeah, not all. BUT what about you? Are you going to deny what he did give because he didn't give it to all?
    Angela53510 and MarcR like this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Thank you IamWhoIam and Matt cuz it was sounding kinda crazy like God just decided who zHr would save and who He would not save.

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by IamWhoIam View Post
    i think you know very well what I mean do you or don't you?
    Oh, I most certainly did hyperbole that to death for the humor.


    But, on a more serious note, I really don't know who created evil. Adam sinned, and in that sinning he lost the capacity of not-sin, and we inherited that from him. I stole that chocolate bar out of the store when I was young. The devil didn't make me do it. (He may have whispered in my ear, but, yeesh! Chocolate! Not that hard for me.)

    No, I don't believe in the Jedi system for the world. I don't believe "The Force" balances good and evil. So, I really don't know what you mean by another creator.
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    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    Thank you IamWhoIam and Matt cuz it was sounding kinda crazy like God just decided who zHr would save and who He would not save.
    Far better to put God in the backseat and we drive the vehicle?

    How did that work out for you?

    God didn't ever "just decide." He's God. He created everything, including time and space. He's also omniscient. He knows all always. No need to decide anything if you know it all and caused it all.
    Angela53510 likes this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    @depleted
    You are kinda mean so I will just drop the whole topic
    7seasrekeyed likes this.

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