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Thread: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I've recently learned quite a bit about Dominionism, but it is a bit too involved to go into on a forum.What is this "KFC" you mentioned?
    LOL @ myself. Kentucky Fried Chicken??? Hahahah!Actually it should have read KCP.....maybe it was an auto correct, I don't know. IHOP was also known as the Kansas City Prophets (KCP)
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    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?

    I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?



    I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.


    I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.


    Thanks!
    SaveSave
    Comes from the following scripture found in Galatians 2:16

    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    a. Jesus begins and finishes our faith <----does this indicate source?
    b. Jesus finishes the good work of faith he began <----Does this indicate completion of "a"
    c. God deals to all believers a measure of faith <----Does this indicate source?
    d. Faith is listed as a spiritual gift of God in 1st Corinthian 13 <----Does this indicate source?

    NOT ALL MEN HAVE FAITH according to 2nd Thessalonians 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith

    From FAITH to FAITH it is written the just shall live by faith.



    You tell me!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by dcontroversal; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:45 PM.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    LOL @ myself. Kentucky Fried Chicken??? Hahahah!Actually it should have read KCP.....maybe it was an auto correct, I don't know. IHOP was also known as the Kansas City Prophets (KCP)
    Yes, our church got involved with some of the KCPs for about three years, a few decades ago. We had to cut them loose.
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    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    the Faith that we have can only come from One, The One Who Loves us,
    and gave up 'His earthly being' for us all, in and for pure Love...
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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Gal 2:16 (NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
    Depleted, 20, oldethennew and 2 others like this.

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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    It takes faith to enter through the narrow gate, Jesus never said I will give you the faith to enter through the narrow gate?
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    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Eph 2:8
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    KJV

    Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  8. #28
    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Hi DC, What version are you using. I use the NASB and that's not what it says.


    NASB
    nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.


    It's faith we've been given by Him. We have believed in Christ Jesus so we are justified by faith IN Christ. This passage is contrasting works of the law with faith. It's by faith in Christ. Our faith that He's given to us.
    Last edited by Desertsrose; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:00 PM.
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    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

  9. #29
    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?

    I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?



    I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.


    I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.


    Thanks!
    SaveSave
    When Peter was walking on the water toward Jesus, and he took his eyes off of Him to look at the wind and waves, and started to sink. Jesus raised him back up and said "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" It is our faith.
    oldethennew and Desertsrose like this.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Eph 2:8
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    KJV

    Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us

    Amen, thanks Marc.
    oldethennew likes this.
    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

  11. #31
    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Eph 2:8
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    KJV

    Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us
    The gift is grace, not faith. We receive grace through faith not because of faith. It is possible to have faith and not have grace.
    20 likes this.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFaith View Post
    The gift is grace, not faith. We receive grace through faith not because of faith. It is possible to have faith and not have grace.
    Hi OneFaith,


    What do we have that we've not been given by God?


    Our life, our breath, our bodies, our homes, our children, our jobs, vehicles, food.......name anything you have that you didn't receive by God's hand, His favor, His Sovereignty. All Glory goes to God our Lord and Savior.


    He opened our hearts and our minds, our eyes, our spirits so that we could respond to the gospel by grace through faith. It's all God's work in us. He reveals Himself to us, He reveals the truth to us and so because of the work He's done within us we either respond in faith or reject the truth.
    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

  13. #33
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    I just looked at four commentaries: Adam Clarke, Barnes Notes, Jamieson Faucet & Brown, and Charles Ellicott.
    All four treat the genitive case Jesus' faith as if it were accusative Faith in Jesus. Angela, please tell us whether the genative case really works that way. I'm sure there are others on the forum qualified to answer; but I don't know who they are & I'm confident that you will answer correctly.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  14. #34
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Eph 2:8
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    KJV

    Once we have received faith it becomes ours, like any other gift; but we should remember it is one of the many wonderful things God has given us
    Exactly the point of a-d on my post and the fact that ALL men do not have faith also speaks volumes.......if faith was straight from us and Christ was not the source then ALL men would have it....a-d proves the source
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  15. #35
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFaith View Post
    The gift is grace, not faith. We receive grace through faith not because of faith. It is possible to have faith and not have grace.
    In Greek, the antecedent of pronoun is the most proximate (closest) preceding noun. faith is the gift.

    You have not chosen Me but I have chosen you! Jn 15:16.

    Grace is an attribute of God's character, not a gift otherwise we would all be gracious.
    Last edited by MarcR; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:31 PM.
    Angela53510 and dcontroversal like this.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  16. #36
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    No matter the arguments for or against...the source of ALL things spiritual is GOD........
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  17. #37
    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post


    Hi OneFaith,


    What do we have that we've not been given by God?


    Our life, our breath, our bodies, our homes, our children, our jobs, vehicles, food.......name anything you have that you didn't receive by God's hand, His favor, His Sovereignty. All Glory goes to God our Lord and Savior.


    He opened our hearts and our minds, our eyes, our spirits so that we could respond to the gospel by grace through faith. It's all God's work in us. He reveals Himself to us, He reveals the truth to us and so because of the work He's done within us we either respond in faith or reject the truth.
    Oh indeed, and I'm not trying to argue, just wanted to point it out. Satan is also from God, and God allows our temptations and persecutions. God sends disease to punish sin. Just because everything is from God does not mean we don't have choices.

    What came to my mind was where it says some abandon The Faith to follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. In other words, they branched off of the church Christ created and made a new church of lies mixed with truth. They still had faith in God, but they no longer had grace. Because they left The Faith- which is more than belief in God's existence, it is belief and practice in His doctrine alone (the New Testament, not man made writings).

  18. #38
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Paul is distinguishing between grace and works, not faith:

    Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

    (Rom 4:4 KJV) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
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  19. #39
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    In Greek, the antecedent of pronoun is the most proximate (closest) preceding noun. faith is the gift.

    You have not chosen Me but I have chosen you! Jn 15:16.

    Grace is an attribute of God's character, not a gift otherwise we would all be gracious.
    Exactly......I have stated this more than once in this manner......

    In the grace you are (literally) having been saved by faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast.

    Grace is the positioning
    Salvation is the means as to why one has been placed into grace
    The means of our salvation is faith
    The faith is not of us
    The source of the faith is God as a gift
    The faith that saves is not of works which negates our right to boast.

    a-d on the list proves this

    a. Jesus begins and finishes our faith <----does this indicate source?
    b. Jesus finishes the good work of faith he began <----Does this indicate completion of "a"
    c. God deals to all believers a measure of faith <----Does this indicate source?
    d. Faith is listed as a spiritual gift of God in 1st Corinthian 13 <----Does this indicate source?

    and not to change the direction of this thread, but this is one of the reasons why I believe in eternal security.
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  20. #40
    Senior Member MessageOfTheCross's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

    Galatians 2:20 King James Version (KJV)
    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

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