Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?
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The problem as I see it is not understanding "faith" in context of a "system" of salvation for want of a better word and our faith.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
Luke 18:8 “I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
Luke 18:8 “I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
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I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?
I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?
I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.
I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.
Thanks!
I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?
I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.
I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.
Thanks!
SaveSave
I never heard this teaching anywhere but on this site too.
I wonder how this reflects on word of faither's who believe that it IS the faith of the person who decides whether or not God grants them their desires or what they say they have in order to get what they say they have (confusing)
faith, IMO, as indicated in scripture certainly appears to be our part in believing what God tells us, but we are also told that if we lack faith, we should ask.
Jesus also talks about faith as small as a mustard seed and He says if YOU have that faith..which indicates that is NOT the faith of Jesus
if we all had what some are calling the faith of Jesus, seems to me we would not lack any faith
True that all things come from God by grace. But as I understand it, we receive grace through our faith:
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (Eph 2:8)
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OTOH, once we *have* faith we may have experiences that further strengthens our faith. But it all starts with having faith, and receiving grace through that faith. /jmho
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (Eph 2:8)
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OTOH, once we *have* faith we may have experiences that further strengthens our faith. But it all starts with having faith, and receiving grace through that faith. /jmho
So true 7seas,
All throughout the word we are told to do all by faith; our faith. Not Jesus' faith.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for with the conviction of things not seen. I hope I'm paraphrasing that correctly. That's our faith, Jesus sees all, knows all; there's nothing He hasn't seen.
I'm wondering if anyone knows where this teaching originated from. Zi thinks it's Kenneth Copeland, but she's not sure of that. Someone mentioned reformed, but I don't think they go quite that far as to say all is Jesus' faith and not our own.
All throughout the word we are told to do all by faith; our faith. Not Jesus' faith.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for with the conviction of things not seen. I hope I'm paraphrasing that correctly.
That's our faith, Jesus sees all, knows all; there's nothing He hasn't seen. I'm wondering if anyone knows where this teaching originated from. Zi thinks it's Kenneth Copeland, but she's not sure of that. Someone mentioned reformed, but I don't think they go quite that far as to say all is Jesus' faith and not our own.
7
So true 7seas,
All throughout the word we are told to do all by faith; our faith. Not Jesus' faith.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for with the conviction of things not seen. I hope I'm paraphrasing that correctly. That's our faith, Jesus sees all, knows all; there's nothing He hasn't seen.
I'm wondering if anyone knows where this teaching originated from. Zi thinks it's Kenneth Copeland, but she's not sure of that. Someone mentioned reformed, but I don't think they go quite that far as to say all is Jesus' faith and not our own.
All throughout the word we are told to do all by faith; our faith. Not Jesus' faith.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for with the conviction of things not seen. I hope I'm paraphrasing that correctly.
That's our faith, Jesus sees all, knows all; there's nothing He hasn't seen. I'm wondering if anyone knows where this teaching originated from. Zi thinks it's Kenneth Copeland, but she's not sure of that. Someone mentioned reformed, but I don't think they go quite that far as to say all is Jesus' faith and not our own.
yup
I'm going to see if I can find a source for this belief because I have nothing to go on right now other than seeing posts from some members that appear to believe that
7
well that's been interesting
the KJV seems to be the basic instrument of origin regarding the 'faith of Christ' rather than 'faith in Christ' (as has been pointed out by another poster)
modern translations vear away from that and use 'faith IN Christ' it seems
it should be noted however, that even with the 'OF Christ' it does not seem that we are expected to believe we somehow arrive at faith by osmosis, but, and in keeping with the OT and many scriptures in the new, we have a measure of faith, can pray for God to increase our faith and faith can also be a spiritual gift. what this indicates is that we do not have a passive position which I think it the main contention in what people are believing
that passivity seems to play out pretty broadly in some personal and perhaps denominational teachings but I don't see that as in agreement with the scope of biblical teaching
some will argue that the KJ is 'inspired' but I agree with the determination that NO translation is inspired in the intended use of the word per the Bible itself
I would 'argue' AGAINST passivity in any case as the NT makes the case for ongoing growth as determined by us in the effort we put into our walk. it doesn't happen by accident and we do not suddenly arrive at sanctification
these are my thoughts regarding some of the things I just read on the web
the KJV seems to be the basic instrument of origin regarding the 'faith of Christ' rather than 'faith in Christ' (as has been pointed out by another poster)
modern translations vear away from that and use 'faith IN Christ' it seems
it should be noted however, that even with the 'OF Christ' it does not seem that we are expected to believe we somehow arrive at faith by osmosis, but, and in keeping with the OT and many scriptures in the new, we have a measure of faith, can pray for God to increase our faith and faith can also be a spiritual gift. what this indicates is that we do not have a passive position which I think it the main contention in what people are believing
that passivity seems to play out pretty broadly in some personal and perhaps denominational teachings but I don't see that as in agreement with the scope of biblical teaching
some will argue that the KJ is 'inspired' but I agree with the determination that NO translation is inspired in the intended use of the word per the Bible itself
I would 'argue' AGAINST passivity in any case as the NT makes the case for ongoing growth as determined by us in the effort we put into our walk. it doesn't happen by accident and we do not suddenly arrive at sanctification
these are my thoughts regarding some of the things I just read on the web
In order for Christians to agree on the fundamentals of the faith, we need to agree on which bible version to use since they all say different things and contain different truths. Using one word, either "of" or "in" changes the whole doctrine of justification. Is it my faith or the faith of Jesus Christ? If it's my faith, then it must be demonstrated by my works. This brings in the works based believers. If it's the faith of Christ, then look no further to Christ's obedience unto death, even the death of the cross. Christ did all the work for us. All we are asked to do is believe. "Even we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by the faith of Christ."
thats really unbiblical and falls more in line with the gog.
philippians 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
hebrews 10:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
thats what faith understands that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. its quite contrary to the gog version. there really is no teaching to say " have faith in the finished work" what has Jesus done for us ?
suffered to bring us to God, Gave us new birth, cleansed our sins in order to give reconciliation, instructed us in righteousness, warned us of sin, advocates for us even today, supplied us with all we need to live good upright Godly lives in this world. <<<<< maybe start believing those things because those are the things to believe and walk in. those are the works that lead somewhere
This issue really seems to come down to the KJV versus other translations. There is enough evidence in any version to show clearly that the faith which saves is the faith which is put in the finished work of Christ; I don't think that is the issue though.
Even in the KJV there are examples where it is said, "Your faith has..." with a good result such as healing. As I see it, those who advocate for the KJV version of particular verses as being the final word need to distinguish clearly between faith that results in healing (or whatever else) and faith which results in salvation. Personally, I don't see any justification for the distinction.
Even in the KJV there are examples where it is said, "Your faith has..." with a good result such as healing. As I see it, those who advocate for the KJV version of particular verses as being the final word need to distinguish clearly between faith that results in healing (or whatever else) and faith which results in salvation. Personally, I don't see any justification for the distinction.
The faith that pleases God is perfect faith. Man's faith cannot be perfect or he would save himself. God gives faith through His word both written and manifest in the person of Jesus Christ."
its as if people miss that Jesus has already done what is required of Him. it is about the work He has done IN US to change us from sinners who cannot please God. to new creations in Christ fully capable of pleasing God. on one hand we say " im a new creation im a child of God" and on the other we explain How we cant please God because were just sinners.......
what displeases God is obeying sin, because its the will of satan, what pleases God is to walk in Faith before Him that is the will of God. its a discouragement the more the gog is revealed, it really explains how we can never please God in our lives, How making effort lol uis somehow a lack of faith. Faith is what it has always been, Believing Gods Word, accepting and doing Gods Word because of the belief inside. Our Faith is displayed through Obedience to Gods Word. Jesus isnt an excuse to not live right, He is the provision for us to do so freely.
its as if people miss that Jesus has already done what is required of Him. it is about the work He has done IN US to change us from sinners who cannot please God. to new creations in Christ fully capable of pleasing God. on one hand we say " im a new creation im a child of God" and on the other we explain How we cant please God because were just sinners.......
what displeases God is obeying sin, because its the will of satan, what pleases God is to walk in Faith before Him that is the will of God. its a discouragement the more the gog is revealed, it really explains how we can never please God in our lives, How making effort lol uis somehow a lack of faith. Faith is what it has always been, Believing Gods Word, accepting and doing Gods Word because of the belief inside. Our Faith is displayed through Obedience to Gods Word. Jesus isnt an excuse to not live right, He is the provision for us to do so freely.