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Thread: The Temple Of God

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    J7
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    Default The Temple Of God

    This causes a lot of debate. A physical building, or the human body?

    I have always seen it is a physical temple.

    2 Thessalonians 2 needs very careful reading.

    God in some way is involved in the deception

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    Now this is quite heavy stuff if you think about. Paul starts off by telling the Church not to let any man deceive us, but then tells us that God is involved in the deception!

    The deception then that God sends is not a human being, as Paul has said not to let a human being deceive you.

    Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.






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    J7
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Furthermore, I believe Jesus actually stated that he would rebuild the Temple within three days.

    Three days is prophetically three thousand years.

    So Jesus actually takes credit for the coming rebuild.

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    Senior Member oldhermit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    John 2: 18-22, "The Jews then said to Him, 'What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?' Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?' But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken."

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
    John 2: 18-22, "The Jews then said to Him, 'What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?' Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?' But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken."
    This is completely correct!

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    J7
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
    That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning. (i.e. that was what the this pointed to).

    The Greek word 'de', translated as 'But', also has the meaning 'Moreover', denoting dual meaning, and so should be the correct translation.

    e.g. Moreover/Furthermore he spake of the temple of his body.

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
    That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning. (i.e. that was what the this pointed to).

    The Greek word 'de', translated as 'But', also has the meaning 'Moreover', denoting dual meaning, and so should be the correct translation.

    e.g. Moreover/Furthermore he spake of the temple of his body.
    I am sorry - you have been the given the text that refutes your position.

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    Senior Member oldhermit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
    That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning. (i.e. that was what the this pointed to).

    The Greek word 'de', translated as 'But', also has the meaning 'Moreover', denoting dual meaning, and so should be the correct translation.

    e.g. Moreover/Furthermore he spake of the temple of his body.
    Jesus did not make statements without meaning. Everything he said was truth. This leads me to wonder if you understand just who Jesus is.

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    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    This causes a lot of debate. A physical building, or the human body?

    I have always seen it is a physical temple.

    2 Thessalonians 2 needs very careful reading.

    God in some way is involved in the deception

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    Now this is quite heavy stuff if you think about. Paul starts off by telling the Church not to let any man deceive us, but then tells us that God is involved in the deception!

    The deception then that God sends is not a human being, as Paul has said not to let a human being deceive you.

    Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.
    I don't quite follow you, but what came to mind while I was reading 2 Thessalonians 2, I thought that verse 4, that mentions "he (Satan) as God sitteth in the temple of God," would relate to the following verse in Revelation.

    I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. (Revelation 2:13)

    2 Thessalonians 2:11 could be compared with Romans 1:28, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

    In other words, under the New Covenant, sincere true believers are the temple of God. As for those who claim to be His, yet are inwardly turning their backs on God, He sends judgements of rejection back to them, just like the sun worshippers in Ezekiel 8:16.

    "And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east."

    God says, 'If you slap me in the face by rejecting me in the place where I dwell, this is how I will react in your face.' That's my take.
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    J7
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    I am sorry - you have been the given the text that refutes your position.
    No, I gave you the text that refutes your position.

    Of which I am not at all sorry....

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    J7
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
    Jesus did not make statements without meaning. Everything he said was truth. This leads me to wonder if you understand just who Jesus is.
    Confused...don't know what you are trying to say.

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    No, I gave you the text that refutes your position.

    Of which I am not at all sorry....
    You are overcooking the meaning of one word that does not fit the context.
    You are debating someone who does know his Koine.
    However it is NOT necessary to specifically know the Koine in this instance - the context makes it unambiguously clear that the statement about raising the temple in three days is referring to the resurrection of Jesus - period.

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    No, I gave you the text that refutes your position.

    Of which I am not at all sorry....
    I an
    I am very sorry

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
    That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning.
    Incorrect.

    The Pharisees misunderstood Him. You also are misunderstanding the text and are forcing a rendering upon it which isn't there. This is your eisegetical fallacy bro. Why not just accept this mistake instead of trying to force something that is not there on the text?
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    Confused...don't know what you are trying to say.
    HIS words are SPIRIT and TRUTH
    And those to whom the secrets of THE KINGDOM have been given...HE speaks plainly and clearly

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    You are overcooking the meaning of one word that does not fit the context.
    You are debating someone who does know his Koine.
    However it is NOT necessary to specifically know the Koine in this instance - the context makes it unambiguously clear that the statement about raising the temple in three days is referring to the resurrection of Jesus - period.
    How many meanings do you see in the passage?

    I see two clear meanings, because the Pharisees clearly understood Jesus to be speaking about the physical temple, whilst the disciples understood Jesus to be speaking about his body.

    So, we have two distinct meanings at play.

    Now John introduces the word 'de', which has a range of meanings, including: on the other hand, moreover, furthermore, on top of this.

    So 'de' and 'but' are clearly not words that transliterate perfectly, far from it, 'de' has a whole range of meanings not covered by the English 'but'.

    Now, Koine is a context driven language, so given that John has presented two competing meanings, a literal and a metaphorical one, it stands to reason that 'on top of this' would be the correct translation of 'de' here, to show the metaphorical meaning being added to the literal.

    You can argue all you want, but you won't be right. Why not pray first, and then engage?
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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.
    It would seem from your two posts that you have confused all the temples mentioned in the NT. But the context determines the meaning in each case.

    1. The individual believer is called "the temple of God"

    2. By extension the Church is called the temple of God (actually building)

    3. Christ metaphorically called His body "this temple" in connection with His resurrection within 3 days (not 3,000 years)

    4. There will be a literal temple of "bricks and mortar" called "the temple of God" standing in Jerusalem which will be occupied and desecrated by the Antichrist in the future. So in reality it will become "the temple of Satan".

    Getting back to 2 Thess 2, Paul is speaking about the great delusion which will come upon the unbelieving and the ungodly because they "loved not the truth". In other words the people who hated the Gospel and rejected the true Christ will be deceived into believing that when the Antichrist proclaims from the temple of God that he is Christ and God, they will actually believe him because of the miracles that he will perform (along with the False Prophet's miracles). These are the "signs and lying wonders" of Satan. He connects this with the Day of the LORD, which will follow immediately, and be the time of severe judgments resulting from the great blasphemies of the Antichrist (including the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation within that temple).
    MarcR, Desertsrose and unobtrusive like this.

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    How many meanings do you see in the passage?

    I see two clear meanings, because the Pharisees clearly understood Jesus to be speaking about the physical temple, whilst the disciples understood Jesus to be speaking about his body.

    So, we have two distinct meanings at play.

    Now John introduces the word 'de', which has a range of meanings, including: on the other hand, moreover, furthermore, on top of this.

    So 'de' and 'but' are clearly not words that transliterate perfectly, far from it, 'de' has a whole range of meanings not covered by the English 'but'.

    Now, Koine is a context driven language, so given that John has presented two competing meanings, a literal and a metaphorical one, it stands to reason that 'on top of this' would be the correct translation of 'de' here, to show the metaphorical meaning being added to the literal.

    You can argue all you want, but you won't be right. Why not pray first, and then engage?
    The Pharisees did but believe..
    The SPIRITUAL TRUTH of HIS words were kept from them

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God


    Acts 7

    45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
    46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
    47 But Solomon built him an house.
    48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
    49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
    50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
    51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.


    This came to mind.

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    A group of believers who worship GOD in spirit and Truth through Faith in His Son is a church.

    It could be a tent in the wilderness or a building in the town.. The Holy Spirit gathered together by our temples being in the tent, building or where ever else we abide.
    J7 and unobtrusive like this.

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    Default Re: The Temple Of God

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    This causes a lot of debate. A physical building, or the human body?

    I have always seen it is a physical temple.

    2 Thessalonians 2 needs very careful reading.

    God in some way is involved in the deception

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    Now this is quite heavy stuff if you think about. Paul starts off by telling the Church not to let any man deceive us, but then tells us that God is involved in the deception!

    The deception then that God sends is not a human being, as Paul has said not to let a human being deceive you.

    Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.





    That is the cause you highlight in red "and for this [email protected]

    snd you leave it out

    but the cause is that those who heard the truth and did not believe it, are thosevti whom a strong delusion will come that they will not have a chance to believe the TRITH but will believe the lie


    therefore when the temple is rebuilt, they will see NOTHING wrong with it being built


    snd that sir is a physical earthly structural temple
    Grandpa likes this.

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