View Poll Results: ARE NATURAL DISASTERS A RESULT OF GOD'S SPECIFIC PUNISHMENT?

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  • YES, NATIONAL DISASTERS TODAY ARE A RESULT OF GOD'S SPECIFIC PUNISHMENT.

    4 26.67%
  • NO, NATIONAL DISASTERS TODAY ARE NOT A RESULT OF GOD'S SPECIFIC PUNISHMENT

    11 73.33%
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Thread: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

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    Senior Member sparkman's Avatar
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    Default IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    It is a common claim in some circles that God's SPECIFIC displeasure is being evidenced by natural disasters.

    Is this true or not? Does God specifically target the USA for disasters like the recent flood in Houston?

    One could make such a claim for the ancient nation of Israel, where prosperity and disasters were promised for covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness, under the Mosaic Covenant.

    However, is it biblical to claim these recent disasters are due to God's SPECIFIC displeasure with the USA or some other country?

    Some may claim that the USA has a unique relationship with God, and thus covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness results in blessings or disasters, but could they please show me the covenant, and the evidence that God involved himself in the covenant?

    Note that I am not denying that the Fall and the resulting Curse has affected all of mankind. I strongly affirm that. If someone claims that the disasters arise from the effects of the Fall, I have no disagreement. However, I'm speaking of SPECIFIC disapproval.

    Predictably, some within certain circles of Christianity are making the same claims, accompanied by alleged dreams they've had that "prove" it, and that's the source of my questioning.
    Jesus is risen! Worship Him on the Lord's Day with like minded believers. Don't forsake the assembling of the saints; assembling is a commandment (Hebrews 10:25).

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman View Post
    It is a common claim in some circles that God's SPECIFIC displeasure is being evidenced by natural disasters.

    Is this true or not? Does God specifically target the USA for disasters like the recent flood in Houston?

    One could make such a claim for the ancient nation of Israel, where prosperity and disasters were promised for covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness, under the Mosaic Covenant.

    However, is it biblical to claim these recent disasters are due to God's SPECIFIC displeasure with the USA or some other country?

    Some may claim that the USA has a unique relationship with God, and thus covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness results in blessings or disasters, but could they please show me the covenant, and the evidence that God involved himself in the covenant?

    Note that I am not denying that the Fall and the resulting Curse has affected all of mankind. I strongly affirm that. If someone claims that the disasters arise from the effects of the Fall, I have no disagreement. However, I'm speaking of SPECIFIC disapproval.

    Predictably, some within certain circles of Christianity are making the same claims, accompanied by alleged dreams they've had that "prove" it, and that's the source of my questioning.
    Let's see how it all turns out with comparisons. Maybe, Maybe not. Too early to tell.

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    Senior Member sparkman's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    I'd like to re-phrase my remarks a bit:


    It is a common claim in some circles that God's SPECIFIC punishment on a nation is being evidenced by natural disasters.

    Is this true or not? Does God specifically target the USA for disasters like the recent flood in Houston as a punishment?

    One could make such a claim for the ancient nation of Israel, where prosperity and disasters were promised for covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness, under the Mosaic Covenant.

    However, is it biblical to claim these recent disasters are due to God's SPECIFIC punishment of the USA or some other country?

    Some may claim that the USA has a unique relationship with God, and thus covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness results in blessings or disasters, but could they please show me the covenant, and the evidence that God involved himself in the covenant?

    Note that I am not denying that the Fall and the resulting Curse has affected all of mankind, and weather disasters may be a part of that. I strongly affirm that's a possibility. If someone claims that the disasters arise from the effects of the Fall, I have no disagreement. However, I'm speaking of SPECIFIC punishment.

    Predictably, some within certain circles of Christianity are making the same claims recently, accompanied by alleged dreams they've had that "prove" it, and that's the source of my questioning.
    Jesus is risen! Worship Him on the Lord's Day with like minded believers. Don't forsake the assembling of the saints; assembling is a commandment (Hebrews 10:25).

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Nope - there are no covenantal blessings or cursing the new covenant as there was in the old.

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    I do not believe it is. As Locutus pointed out, there are no "if X then Y" in the new covenant.

    To be honest it annoys me to no end when I have to deal with sensationalist Christians spreading all kinds of false prophecies after every single natural disaster that hits.

    The same happened with Japan's tsunami, New Orleans hurricane and I dare not even say what they were saying during the massive plague outbreak in europe, or during world war 2.
    Houston we do have a problem, but give it a year and it will be rebuilt good as ever. As for this hurricane irma, it devastated many caribbean islands due to them having poor infrastructure, once it hits Florida it is going to make a mark, but much less than it did in the less developed islands, the damages will also be repaired swiftly.

    Why would God punish the bible belt and not hollywood? It does not make much sense. And just a heads up: There has not been a massive earthquake in california for quite some time, and to those of you who know history, you know that San francisco got hit with a huge one about a hundred years ago, so the next one could be coming soon, get ready to hear about God's judgment from every prophecy expert in town when that happens.

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Nope - there are no covenantal blessings or cursing the new covenant as there was in the old.



    The Sermon On The Mount.

    No further comment...none needed

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    The Sermon On The Mount.

    No further comment...none needed


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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman View Post
    It is a common claim in some circles that God's SPECIFIC displeasure is being evidenced by natural disasters.

    Is this true or not? Does God specifically target the USA for disasters like the recent flood in Houston?

    One could make such a claim for the ancient nation of Israel, where prosperity and disasters were promised for covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness, under the Mosaic Covenant.

    However, is it biblical to claim these recent disasters are due to God's SPECIFIC displeasure with the USA or some other country?

    Some may claim that the USA has a unique relationship with God, and thus covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness results in blessings or disasters, but could they please show me the covenant, and the evidence that God involved himself in the covenant?

    Note that I am not denying that the Fall and the resulting Curse has affected all of mankind. I strongly affirm that. If someone claims that the disasters arise from the effects of the Fall, I have no disagreement. However, I'm speaking of SPECIFIC disapproval.

    Predictably, some within certain circles of Christianity are making the same claims, accompanied by alleged dreams they've had that "prove" it, and that's the source of my questioning.
    ***George Washington's first address may shed some light...
    George Washington: His first inaugural address as compared to ...

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    First, the USA is not the centre of the world!

    I know that comes as a terrible surprise and many will argue with me! The only place the US appears in scripture is the Book of Mormon, the 10 lost tribes have migrated here, and established a mighty empire! With NO archeological findings to support this, ever, I will move on.

    In China, in 1938 the Japanese army was attacking the mainland. The Chinese breached the walls of the Yangtze River, kiliing 800 thousand of their own people and stopping the invading Japanese army. Big flood, no one says it was from God.

    Yellow River flood, 1938-47 | DisasterHistory.org

    Ah!! Everyone says! Angela's not too smart! Houston was natural, not man made! Since when has building on a flood plain, paving over the swamps and estuaries, been natural? Houston is a direct result of bad planning and remediation.

    Read some of the more scholarly articles about how and why the disaster part of Houston could have been ameliorated with proper urban planning! And sorry, this is part of what I studied in my undergrad degree, including courses on natural disasters, urban planning and land use.

    So, anyone saying this disaster was from God doesn't have a clue, from a science point of view. From a Biblical point of view, God said he would never send a world wide flood again. Although, there are many Scriptures in the OT that talk about the consequences of not caring for the land. I did a paper on this in seminary, very long, I can give verses if anyone wants.

    Basically, God has warned us about caring for the land. He sent Jesus to die for our sin. But he left the earth in a state of Fall, until Jesus returns, and by not caring for the earth, it is no longer able to carry the people in the world, especially careless, foolish, greedy and selfish sinners! I know the OP dealt with this, I just don't see a single verse NT or OT where God used natural disasters after the flood. Unless you want to consider Sodom and Gomorrah as a natural disaster for sin. To me, it sounds more like a nuclear explosion, but that is just conjecture on my part, I would be willing to concede the point if someone has any other evidence.

    Even with Israel, who were abysmally wicked, and God sent/allowed drought for 3 years, it was to try and wake up Ahab, not to punish them. And he used people to wipe out the Omri line, and other kings' lines. And when God finally gave judgment, it was with Assyrians, in 722 BC, taking them captive, intermixing them with other captives, and dissolving the 10 tribes.

    The same for Judah, except this time it was the Babylonians in 586 BC, but, because Jesus would come from the line of David, the tribe of Judah, he preserved their lineage and brought them back 70 years later, a chastised people.

    So no, Houston, New Orleans, Florida, the Caribbean are not a specific punishment for sin. If you live in a hurricane zone, build accordingly. If you live in an earthquake zone, don't build on a fault line.

    And if you live on the western part of North American, with no rain for months, and bad forest management practices, don't be surprised that human set fires are burning down California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Alberta, Manitoba and BC. And yes, global warming is real, but how much of that is because of carbon, I do not know!

    I notice a lot if you easterners have no idea how bad the west is right now! But then, that is what the media ignores, so why would you?

    Besides, what I heard was that the left was saying Houston was God's judgment in the Bible Belt, for opposing gay marriage, transgenders, racism etc! But, I scarcely think people who don't believe in God are qualified to speak for what God is doing, or not! Do you?
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Man is totally responsible for the damage resulting from natural disasters. Look at the population density of the most sensitive areas affected by natural disasters. Man can not blame God for man's foolishness.
    2 Peter 1:5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love.

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    And that my friends is that...
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Disasters come because we live in a fallen and evil world . . . period.

    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever View Post
    Disasters come because we live in a fallen and evil world . . . period.

    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

    I agree totally with your first statement. But, this verse is a bit out of context. This was written to Israel. After King Solomon consecrated the temple. The first temple, of course!


    "Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king's house. All that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished. 12 Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice. 13 When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command the locust to devour the land, or send pestilence among my people, 14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land. 15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayer that is made in this place. 16 For now I have chosen and consecrated this house that my name may be there forever. My eyes and my heart will be there for all time. 17 And as for you, if you will walk before me as David your father walked, doing according to all that I have commanded you and keeping my statutes and my rules, 18 then I will establish your royal throne, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, ‘You shall not lack a man to rule Israel.’" 2 Chronicles 7:11-18

    Now, if you want to make this about sinners, or NT Christians, feel free to pull it out of context! And, that is not to say we should not repent, humble ourselves and pray. And turn from our wicked ways! We ought to always do that!

    But, the world is not ancient Israel, most are not saved, and all the solemn assemblies and gatherings in the world have not healed the land. Because unfortunately, we simply have not obeyed God, as countries, which only Israel truly had the chance to do, and failed miserably at this, from Solomon on down! Israel proved that sinful human beings cannot do this! True, there have been marvellous revivals in the past. Would that they would happen again! But, at this point in history, like Josiah's frantic attempt to reform Judah, after he found the book of the law, it is too little, too late. Even Solomon, who talked with God, and built the temple was apostate by the end of his life! So, what does that say about the hope for the rest of the world, as countries?

    Before I was saved, I was an environmentalist. That is what my undergrad degree was about. I realized that it is too late! And fortunately, God is going to return and renew the earth. That is my hope! The return of Jesus Christ. Although certainly, it behooves us all to share the gospel with the lost, especially repentance and turning from our wicked ways. Sadly though, Christians are not on the forefront of changing the environment, and perhaps that is not wrong! Because I do believe, we need to be evangelizing the lost. And that means repentance! And that means turning from our wicked ways! I do not disagree with that at all!



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    "And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Cor. 12:9 NASB

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman View Post
    It is a common claim in some circles that God's SPECIFIC displeasure is being evidenced by natural disasters.

    Is this true or not? Does God specifically target the USA for disasters like the recent flood in Houston?

    One could make such a claim for the ancient nation of Israel, where prosperity and disasters were promised for covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness, under the Mosaic Covenant.

    However, is it biblical to claim these recent disasters are due to God's SPECIFIC displeasure with the USA or some other country?

    Some may claim that the USA has a unique relationship with God, and thus covenant faithfulness and unfaithfulness results in blessings or disasters, but could they please show me the covenant, and the evidence that God involved himself in the covenant?

    Note that I am not denying that the Fall and the resulting Curse has affected all of mankind. I strongly affirm that. If someone claims that the disasters arise from the effects of the Fall, I have no disagreement. However, I'm speaking of SPECIFIC disapproval.

    Predictably, some within certain circles of Christianity are making the same claims, accompanied by alleged dreams they've had that "prove" it, and that's the source of my questioning.
    The Covenant you are speaking of is Gen 12:1-4. God is in total control. Does that answer your question?
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    Like the Bereans in Acts 17:11 (KJV) "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

    With Jesus Christ as your savior, The Holy Spirit will teach you if you are willing to learn from Him. He will guide you in daily activities if you will listen to Him. He will protect and maintain your soul in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit if you will let Him.

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    God is not pleased with any nation that touches Israel. President Trump has assigned his son-in-law Jared Kushner to negotiate a two-state solution between Israel and Palestine. God has warned any nation who touches Israel touches the apple of His eye. Zechariah 2:8-9 - Psalm 120:7

    Jared Kushner owns and lives at 666 5th AVE NYC - where Lucent Technologies is working on the RFID chip for every American.
    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Nope - there are no covenantal blessings or cursing the new covenant as there was in the old.
    That is not true.
    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Yes it is true....so there.

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    The Apostle Paul said in Romans 11:22, "Notice how God is both kind and severe..." He will cut you off!

    America and the world must understand when you turn your back on Our Lord Jesus Christ, spiritually speaking, He will vex you with all adversity.

    2 Chronicles 15 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

    Asa’s Changes

    15 The Spirit of God came on Azariah, who was Obed’s son. 2 Azariah went to meet Asa and said, “Listen to me, Asa and all you people of Judah and Benjamin. The Lord is with you when you are with him. If you look for him, you will find him. But if you leave him, he will leave you. 3 For a long time Israel was without the true God. And they were without a teaching priest, and without the law. 4 But when the Israelites had trouble, they turned again to the Lord, the God of Israel. They looked for him and found him. 5 In those times of trouble, no one could travel safely. There was great trouble in all the nations. 6 One nation would destroy another nation and one city would destroy another city. This was happening because God gave them all kinds of trouble. 7 But Asa, you and the people of Judah and Benjamin, be strong. Don’t be weak and don’t give up, because you will get a reward for your good work!” 2 Chronicles 15:1-7

    Travel = Plane, train, vehicle, or walking.

    Don’t be weak and don’t give up = Fight the good fight of faith...1 Timothy 6:12
    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Whether or not the disasters which have befallen the world recently are God's specific judgment for sin, it would be great if He would pour out repentance leading to the salvation of many.
    Desertsrose likes this.

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS NATIONAL DISASTER A SIGN OF GOD'S SPECIFIC DISPLEASURE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?

    Usually God sends a prophet such as John the B. when judgement is coming, as we ain't seen the like of him since then, so one would conclude the natural weather events are well natural.

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