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Thread: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Consider this point of truth. The so called lost books of the Bible were not considered part of scripture because what was written in it was running against the accepted scripture in the accepted Book of the Bible.

    Now when not all Bibles are saying the same thing; which Bible are you to rely on for the truth in His words as far as maintaining truth as lining up with all the truths in that Bible? It can be done.

    John 16:13 in ALL BIBLES testify that the Holy Spirit CANNOT SPEAK for HIMSELF, BUT speaks what He hears. That lines up with scripture that testifies that God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 )

    THAT MEAN the Holy Spirit CANNOT use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people of what He hears and turn it around for His own personal use by means of praying back to God.

    Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV is the only Bible ( 1599 Geneva Bible too if you discount the errant marginal notes ) to line up with John 16:13 in citing in Romans 8:26, that the intercessions of the Holy Spirit, even though He makes them for us, He cannot utter them nor speak them as even His groaning cannot be uttered.

    That is why in verse 27 is a testimony of the Son making those silent intercessions for the Holy Spirit by knowing the mind of the Spirit in the same way that Jesus searches our hearts as Hebrews 4:12-16 confirms.

    So what Bible do you want? Something that is by propaganda is easier to read than the KJV or a Bible that maintains the truths in His words as lining up with the rest of scripture.

    You can forget all that KJVONLYISM as that is nothing but some smoke and mirrors spun by the devil for everybody to not even consider that the KJV is the one keeping the meat of His words for us to discern good & evil by it for keeping the faith which is the good fight.

    Like it or not, all modern Bibles are supporting false tongues and false teachings whereas the KJV is not.

    And yes, I am fully aware that believers can go astray by use of the KJV, but at least I can TELL you that only by the KJV can I correct them by His actual words than the modern Bibles that makes everybody wonders if God really meant that in John 16:13 because of Romans 8:26-27 in that modern Bible.

    If you disagree, then I have to say for all that antiKJV prejudices out there, it is amazing how you are not considering the lost books as gospels too, but if you do not, THEN YOU HAVE TO USE THE SAME DISCERNMENT when truth in one part of scripture does not line up with what the other scripture says when truth is opposing it BECAUSE NOT ALL Bibles are saying the same thing.

    Can you lead people to Christ with other Bibles? Yes.

    Can you correct or expose the works of darkness with other Bibles? NO!!! Only the KJV can do that with Christ's help.

    The KJV is NOT a magical book BUT if you want to expose ALL works of darkness by HIM, then you have to use His actual words of truth. There is no other way.
    Discernment & Truth comes from the Holy Spirit not a pet version.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by heartofdavid View Post
    The early church fathers,apostles,were obcessed with the power of the Holy Spirit,or second baptism.

    The modern church omits it.

    Sad. Gross,gross error and huge mistake. How did we come to this?????
    There are many things that the protesters against the Roman Catholic Diocese didn't pretest against. I need no go into detail. All each one of us has to do is read the history of the reformation period. Even during the Apostles time there were heresies within the church. Judgement begins in the house of God. It has always been that way. The 7 churches in Asia (Rev 2 and 3) are very good examples for us to know things haven't changed very much since then.
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by dalok6800 View Post
    Discernment & Truth comes from the Holy Spirit not a pet version.
    1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

    Then no version should have a lie in it, right? As no lie can be of the truth. The Holy Spirit can show you that in all modern Bibles where the lies are that can cause a believer to err and turn from the truth & think erroneously that tongues can be used by the Holy Spirit for prayer.

    Go to this link to Bible gateway and compare this truth in John 16:13 as all Bibles declares this truth that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but speaks what He hears.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...V;ASV;ESV;NASB


    Then go to this link below at Bible Gateway that shows only the KJV maintaining that truth in Romans 8:26-27 whereas all other Bibles are not when His groaning cannot be uttered either; hence no sound at all.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...V;ASV;ESV;NASB

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post


    1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

    Then no version should have a lie in it, right? As no lie can be of the truth. The Holy Spirit can show you that in all modern Bibles where the lies are that can cause a believer to err and turn from the truth & think erroneously that tongues can be used by the Holy Spirit for prayer.

    Go to this link to Bible gateway and compare this truth in John 16:13 as all Bibles declares this truth that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but speaks what He hears.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...V;ASV;ESV;NASB


    Then go to this link below at Bible Gateway that shows only the KJV maintaining that truth in Romans 8:26-27 whereas all other Bibles are not when His groaning cannot be uttered either; hence no sound at all.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...V;ASV;ESV;NASB
    Acts 13.2-NASB

    2 While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

    Acts 13.2-KJV
    2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by dalok6800 View Post
    Acts 13.2-NASB

    2 While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

    Acts 13.2-KJV
    2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
    The " I " is the Holy Spirit relaying the words from Another.

    When Christ was on earth, it was from the Father.

    Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

    Now that Christ is in Heaven, the words are from Jesus Christ.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    So it is like this... you speak for God as the Holy Spirit lead you to speak. Is it YOU speaking or the Holy Spirit speaking in you? You cannot deny that you are speaking, but you understand when led by the Holy Spirit, it is the Holy Spirit speaking through you.

    Therefore understand that what the Holy Spirit is saying is not His own words, but what He hears. You have to line up all the truths in scripture to understand what is being written.

    You are led by the Holy Spirit to speak what the Holy Spirit hears; therefore the " I " is Jesus Christ. Why? Other than what John 16:13-15 testify as to Whom the Holy Spirit would credit as in glorify and that is the Son of God from Whom all the words, gifts, and fruits of the Spirit comes from ...there is these references also.

    Matthew 28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    Philippians 1:
    6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

    So when I read this reference...

    1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    Paul may be writing it and he has written it as coming from the Holy Spirit instead of himself, but this is with the understanding where the words of the Holy Spirit are coming from; the Lord Jesus Christ.

    If someone said "This is the Holy Spirit speaking!! Do not speak against me ever again!!" Then that was not the Holy Spirit, but someone trying to pass off what was said as coming from God when it was not, so as to go unchallenged using the fear of blaspheming the Holy Spirit or questioning the Holy Spirit ( when it is really questioning him or her ).

    So I understand what was written in Acts that you had referenced, but you seem to be taking it to mean scripture can run against scripture when you should not be doing that at all, but applying John 16:13 to how the Holy Spirit is speaking.

    So what you hear, is from the Bridegroom. Our response is not to the Holy Spirit, but to the Bridegroom.



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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    The " I " is the Holy Spirit relaying the words from Another.

    When Christ was on earth, it was from the Father.

    ...
    Your post shows the inconsistency of your reasoning. You interpret a single preposition in a very narrow manner, make an entire doctrine of it, and then explain away conflicting verses by adding your own interpretation as to what they "really" mean. That's called 'poor hermeneutics'.

    The words spoken in other tongues in Acts 2: were they from Jesus or from the Holy Spirit? If from Jesus, why do you assert that other tongues spoken of later in Acts and Corinthians were not from Jesus? If from the Holy Spirit, why do you argue that the Holy Spirit doesn't talk of Himself?
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by heartofdavid View Post
    The early church fathers,apostles,were obcessed with the power of the Holy Spirit,or second baptism.

    The modern church omits it.

    Sad. Gross,gross error and huge mistake. How did we come to this?????
    What???? What are you saying?
    show me scripturally why, once baptized into Christ by the HOLY SPIRIT, we would have to be baptized again
    Last edited by miknik5; 1 Week Ago at 08:04 PM.
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    Your post shows the inconsistency of your reasoning. You interpret a single preposition in a very narrow manner, make an entire doctrine of it, and then explain away conflicting verses by adding your own interpretation as to what they "really" mean. That's called 'poor hermeneutics'.

    The words spoken in other tongues in Acts 2: were they from Jesus or from the Holy Spirit? If from Jesus, why do you assert that other tongues spoken of later in Acts and Corinthians were not from Jesus? If from the Holy Spirit, why do you argue that the Holy Spirit doesn't talk of Himself?
    Well, there is a different concern the speaking of tongues in Acts 2 and during Pauls time. Both was from the Holy Spirit. What we found in Acts 2; 8; 10 ore 19 was with a special reason. This we find in the context of these verses.
    What we find later in 1. Corinthians and in Pauls teachings is that speaking in tongues is a gift, like all other gifts given as benefit for the church and also the single believer.
    After this apostoluc time we find dpeaking in tongues very rare in the churchhistorie. And when, then most in conections with cults. With the pentecostal movement then we find suddenly speaking in tongues not as normal gift, but as sign for to have the 2nd baptisuddenlythe Holy Spirit. A teaching which we cant find in the bible.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    Your post shows the inconsistency of your reasoning. You interpret a single preposition in a very narrow manner, make an entire doctrine of it, and then explain away conflicting verses by adding your own interpretation as to what they "really" mean. That's called 'poor hermeneutics'.
    dalok6800 was applying that reference in Acts to oppose what JESUS has said how the Holy Spirit will speak.

    If you take your anti KJV bifocles off, brother, you would see that my reasoning lines up all the truths in the scripture whereas your reasoning otherwise does not just because I explained the words spoken by the Holy Spirit is from Jesus.

    The words spoken in other tongues in Acts 2: were they from Jesus or from the Holy Spirit?
    After Jesus has ascended, from Jesus.

    If from Jesus, why do you assert that other tongues spoken of later in Acts and Corinthians were not from Jesus?
    I did not make any assertations to that. If you are referring to tongues that comes with no interpretation that is not even understood by a foreigner, but vain & profane babbling as that kind of supernatural tongue can be found in the world before Pentecost, then... yeah.. that kind of tongue is not from Jesus, because saved believer claim that it is a prayer language of the Holy Spirit... and since the words are from Jesus, that would have Jesus praying through the Holy Spirit back to Himself.

    Not.

    If from the Holy Spirit, why do you argue that the Holy Spirit doesn't talk of Himself?
    The Holy Spirit does not have His own words to speak; therefore He is not going to stop being the Spirit of Christ by stopping to speak for Christ and start speaking for Himself. He CANNOT do that.

    ALL BIBLES attest to that.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

    John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. ASV

    John 16:
    13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ESV

    John 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. NASB

    The Holy Spirit CANNOT speak of Himself, nor on His own, nor from Himself, nor on His own authority, nor on His own initiative. Can this truth be OVERLOOKED because antiKJVers do not want to rely only one one Bible for the meat of His words when all modern Bibles got Romans 8:26-27 wrong, but only the KJV has it right??

    What does the Greek say about Romans 8:26-27? Alaletos is the Greek word for unspeakable and unutterable. There is another Greek word for groaning.

    The KJV wording "groaning which cannot be uttered" means no sound at all, but all modern Bibles seem to imply that the Holy Spirit can make His own intercessions in speaking them and that sounds can be heard.

    Scripture CANNOT GO against scripture.

    So why don't you check that with Him at that throne of grace because no lie can be of the truth, because it is obvious to me, thanks to Him, that the " I " is the Lord speaking through the Holy Spirit in us as the Spirit speaks what He hears.

    Jesus was not whistling Dixie to fill the pages in the Book of John. There is no point saying that in John 16:13 unless it was for our discernment on how the Holy Spirit will speak and NOT speak in order for us to discern false supernatural tongues that is not of Him... as it is that kind of tongue that has BEEN in the world before Pentecost whereas God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

    It is all about defending the faith which is the good fight and we need the actual meat of His words to discern good & evil by as I find the KJV doing it, but modern Bibles do not as their Romans 8:26-27 makes John 16:13 look as if He did not really mean that at all.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    ... If you take your anti KJV bifocles off, brother, ...
    I'm not "anti KJV"; rather, I choose to challenge poor reasoning which has led to conclusions not actually supported by that reasoning.

    The opening post of this thread included the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman View Post
    ... I would define the essentials as these:

    1) the full deity of Jesus Christ
    2) monotheism (there is only one God)
    3) the doctrine of the Trinity or Triune nature of God
    4) justification by faith alone
    5) authority and inspiration of Scripture alone
    6) substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross
    7) original sin
    8) virgin birth
    9) bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
    10) eternal reward of the righteous and eternal
    punishment of the wicked at Christ's return

    These principles are so clearly taught in Scripture that they are undeniable. ...
    Sparkman didn't include a view on tongues, so I would suggest that he doesn't think it's a core issue, whether he agrees with you on that issue or not.

    You challenged his #5, making a claim regarding the KJV and how it supports your view on tongues. My response to your challenge is that if your position relies on a single translation, it is probably not a core-doctrinal issue. Now you're trying to argue the issue of tongues instead of whether it is a core issue. I'm not interested in arguing that point, at least not on this thread.
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    I'm not "anti KJV"; rather, I choose to challenge poor reasoning which has led to conclusions not actually supported by that reasoning.
    I cannot help you recognize the truth in His words, obviously. All I can do is pray for you.

    The opening post of this thread included the following:



    Sparkman didn't include a view on tongues, so I would suggest that he doesn't think it's a core issue, whether he agrees with you on that issue or not.

    You challenged his #5, making a claim regarding the KJV and how it supports your view on tongues. My response to your challenge is that if your position relies on a single translation, it is probably not a core-doctrinal issue. Now you're trying to argue the issue of tongues instead of whether it is a core issue. I'm not interested in arguing that point, at least not on this thread.
    There were two other challenges besides #5.

    The fact that not all Bibles are saying the same thing challenges #5, brother. The issue of false tongues vs God's real gift of tongues is just an example on how ALL Bibles say that the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for His own means of deliver His intercessions as John 16:13 confirms ( which you did not address at all ) and yet Romans 8:26-27 in all modern bibles says otherwise except for the KJV in maintaining that truth of John 16:13 in Romans 8:26-27.

    Even anti-KJVers admits that not all Bibles are saying the same thing even if you do claim you are not an antiKJVer.

    Pray about this, brother. That is all I can ask you to do at this point since it is on Him to cause the increase. I cannot.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Is all scripture true and God breathed? Does it go forth and come back void? Do You realize that Jesus did not speak in English ( King James or otherwise)?
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale1701 View Post
    Is all scripture true and God breathed? Does it go forth and come back void? Do You realize that Jesus did not speak in English ( King James or otherwise)?
    Hi Dino246. You liked his post? How antiKJVer of you, brother. That is proof, brother. I shall show you why.

    To Dale 1701 & Dino246,

    The same antiKJV argument can be said for the NIV and other versions. Did Jesus speak in English of the NIV? The ESV? The NASB? This diatribe is from antiKJVers speaking against KJVONLYISM, and you guys are borrowing it from that bigotry.

    That diatribe is pure nonsense and antiKJVers just hop on the bandwagon, liking that obvious hypocrisy, but not seeing it.

    This is nothing more than being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative in opposing relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good & evil by that Bible version with the Lord Jesus Christ's help as our Good Shepherd.

    It is all about the truth in scripture.

    Is it maintaining the truth or not when Romans 8:26-27 in ALL modern Bibles is opposing the truth in John 16:13? No, it is not.

    Did Jesus warned us that we will need His discernment to know which Bible loved Him in keeping His words and which did not?

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

    John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

    Sure reads that way.

    The contention I had pointed out shows all modern Bibles supporting a supernatural tongue which is nothing but vain & profane babbling gained by the apostasy when a saved believer receives what they believe was the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.

    It does not stop there when they inspire others to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues. They report other encounters as well where they fall down and have all acts of confusion.

    They hunger and thirst for more of God... for more of that supernatural wild encounter...they fall as in faint because the word of God has been tainted to make them all doubt His words in John 16:13 so that they would seek to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.

    So this prophesy back in the O.T. that had come true, is happening again in causing this falling away from the faith now.

    Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it. 13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

    How can they find the truth in His words in all modern Bibles when Romans 8:26-27 sows doubts to Jesus's own words on how the Holy Spirit will speak and how the Holy Spirit will not speak, and so they chase after seducing spirits and doctrines of devils and know it not just to receive what they believe is the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation and other signs of confusion.


    1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    So how important are His words to not allow doubts to be sown in the Bible versions of the truth in His words?

    Galatians 5:8This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

    1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

    When John 16:13 in ALL Bibles says the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for speaking His own intercessions, then when all MODEN Bibles of Romans 8:26-27 opposes that truth in John 16:13, BUT the KJV does NOT, then which Bible are you going to rely on for the meat of His words when so many believers are falling away from the faith in the latter days that has a modern Bible supporting the lie that the Holy Spirit can use tongues to utter His own intercessions; a tongue gained by apostasy when God's real gift of tongues is for the Holy Spirit to speak what He hears unto the people?

    Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

    And many houses did fall around and including those that were seeking to receive the "Holy Spirit" apart from salvation with tongues that is not of Him at all, but is vain & profane babbling nonsense and/or other signs in the flesh. This does not happen all the time, but believers have fallen down in confusion while they or others around them were seeking to receive that tongue gained by apostasy.

    Try correcting those people that how they got that tongue is not of Him and why that tongue coming with no interpretation is not of Him either because the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His own intercessions as all Bibles says in John 16:13.

    ALL BIBLES attest to that.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

    John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. ASV

    John 16:
    13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ESV

    John 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. NASB

    But they and even non tongue speakers cannot hear nor see that truth in His words because Romans 8:26-27 in whatever modern Bible they are using, has the devil whispering in their ears, "Did God really say that?" about John 16:13.

    Now if you guys want to save face, and keep on rolling out all those nonsense levied against KJVONLYISM, than that is more important to you than the truth in His words and more important than keeping the faith which is supposed to be the good fight.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Apologies to Dale 1701 & Dino246,

    I realize that some people can believe they are not racist and yet say or do something that would make them look racist.

    People can pick up prejudices and not even know it.

    As I am sure you guys have gone across Christian forums on the internet and visited threads denouncing KJVONLYISM, and Dale1701's post and Dino246 liking his post is evident that you guys have picked up the nonsense borne out of prejudices against relying only on the KJV levied against KJVONLYISM.

    I do not wish to represent KJVONLYISM because of some of the extreme judgments given on believers using other Bible versions that seem to be attached to KJVONLYISM, even though no one group can say what KJVONLYISM is & is not.

    My stance is because of the falling away from the faith is why I am urging believers to rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good and evil by Him when using the KJV since modern Bibles have changed enough of His words like in Romans 8:26-27 to sow doubts towards the truth in His words of John 16:13.

    I can only pray for you guys that the Lord will help you see that scripture cannot go against scripture so that Romans 8:26-27 in all modern Bibles are wrong because it opposes the truth in His words in John 16:13 about how the Holy Spirit will speak and NOT speak.

    But as it is, the challenge or the contention for clarification of #5 as well as the other 2 to sparkman's OP remains.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Apologies to Dale 1701 & Dino246,

    I realize that some people can believe they are not racist and yet say or do something that would make them look racist.

    People can pick up prejudices and not even know it.

    As I am sure you guys have gone across Christian forums on the internet and visited threads denouncing KJVONLYISM, and Dale1701's post and Dino246 liking his post is evident that you guys have picked up the nonsense borne out of prejudices against relying only on the KJV levied against KJVONLYISM.

    I do not wish to represent KJVONLYISM because of some of the extreme judgments given on believers using other Bible versions that seem to be attached to KJVONLYISM, even though no one group can say what KJVONLYISM is & is not.

    My stance is because of the falling away from the faith is why I am urging believers to rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good and evil by Him when using the KJV since modern Bibles have changed enough of His words like in Romans 8:26-27 to sow doubts towards the truth in His words of John 16:13.

    I can only pray for you guys that the Lord will help you see that scripture cannot go against scripture so that Romans 8:26-27 in all modern Bibles are wrong because it opposes the truth in His words in John 16:13 about how the Holy Spirit will speak and NOT speak.

    But as it is, the challenge or the contention for clarification of #5 as well as the other 2 to sparkman's OP remains.
    I appreciate the retraction. For the record, I "Liked" the post from Dale1701 partly because I agree with him and partly to encourage him as he is a new member.

    I would like to ask... you claim that you are not a "KJV-onlyist" and then state the following: "I am urging believers to rely only on the KJV...". How, exactly, is that not a "KJV-only" position? I recognize that you aren't "rabidly" KJV-only, in the fashion of Peter Ruckman. However, your core argument, even though you have reasons for it, is that the KJV is the only reliable Bible in English. That is the essence of the KJV-only position, even if you come to it by a different route and argue for it in a different 'spirit' and with different lines of evidence than the "Ruckmanite" group.

    Once again, I'm not going to debate the 'tongues' issue with you in this thread. Further, I have no obligation to address your other challenges. Sparkman is free to respond if he chooses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    I would like to ask... you claim that you are not a "KJV-onlyist" and then state the following: "I am urging believers to rely only on the KJV...". How, exactly, is that not a "KJV-only" position?
    Christians -- including Dino -- should understand by now that there are two groups of Christians who hold exclusively to the King James Bible (generally excluding the NKJV). The vast majority are conservative Christians who have carefully assessed the Bible version issue and recognized that a colossal hoax was perpetrated in the Christian world through rationalistic textual scholars and their "critical texts".

    Then there is a fringe group such as the Ruckmanites which have gone overboard with their thinking, and even claimed that the KJV is "inspired" and the English corrects the Greek. It is always the fringe group which gives a bad name to others.

    But for the record ALL ENGLISH SPEAKING CHRISTIANS worldwide were "KJV-Only" from 1611 to 1911, since the Geneva Bible did not gain broad acceptance and the British Empire enabled Christian missionaries to take the Authorized Version to the ends of the earth. So I am with Enow on this, and it is up to every believer to carefully determine why the corrupted English "bibles" are unacceptable.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 1 Week Ago at 01:35 PM.
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Christians -- including Dino -- should understand by now that there are two groups of Christians who hold exclusively to the King James Bible (generally excluding the NKJV). The vast majority are conservative Christians who have carefully assessed the Bible version issue and recognized that a colossal hoax was perpetrated in the Christian world through rationalistic textual scholars and their "critical texts".

    Then there is a fringe group such as the Ruckmanites which have gone overboard with their thinking, and even claimed that the KJV is "inspired" and the English corrects the Greek. It is always the fringe group which gives a bad name to others.

    But for the record ALL ENGLISH SPEAKING CHRISTIANS worldwide were "KJV-Only" from 1611 to 1911, since the Geneva Bible did not gain broad acceptance and the British Empire enabled Christian missionaries to take the Authorized Version to the ends of the earth. So I am with Enow on this, and it is up to every believer to carefully determine why the corrupted English "bibles" are unacceptable.
    I can appreciate the distinction between, shall we say, the "conservative" KJV-only position, and the "radical" position, and I agree, it is worthwhile for believers to investigate the claims of the conservative position. I've done enough investigation to be certain that there are translational errors and weaknesses in the KJV that render it ineligible as the only reliable English version. That doesn't make Enow's claims regarding 'tongues' irrelevant, but it makes using only the KJV indefensible, in my opinion.

    I agree... the silliness of the radical KJVo position does colour all KJV-only arguments. Perhaps the conservative KJVo proponents should step up and address the silly arguments instead of leaving that to non-KJVo folks. That said, I haven't yet seen any KJV-only proponent, conservative or radical, acknowledge a poor argument when one has been pointed out.

    I suggest that the claim that "all English speaking Christians worldwide were 'KJV-Only' from 1611 to 1911" is a subtle (and hopefully inadvertent) misrepresentation of the truth. The KJV was the most-widely-available English version during that period; that does not in any way speak to its reliability or exactness of translation, or to the idea that any English speakers held to it exclusively. Essentially, that claim is simply an appeal to the majority.
    Angela53510 and dalok6800 like this.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Let's talk about the close relationship between Christmas and Easter, and see if these practices began before or after Christ. Hopefully we won't get facetious flippant comments like.. "we've been through this over and over," by treating this serious issue with deliberate inappropriate humour.

    I didn't start this thread, but it did give me this question.... "How close do Christmas and Easter compare to each other?"

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    I suggest that the claim that "all English speaking Christians worldwide were 'KJV-Only' from 1611 to 1911" is a subtle (and hopefully inadvertent) misrepresentation of the truth.
    Not at all. Those are the facts of the case, whether you like it or not. The Authorized Version was "THE" Bible for all who used an English language Bible. Unless you can prove that another English language Bible prevailed for 300 years, you must accept that as the truth and as fact.
    The KJV was the most-widely-available English version during that period; that does not in any way speak to its reliability or exactness of translation, or to the idea that any English speakers held to it exclusively.
    Again you are ignoring the facts to support your position. Firstly the stated aim of the KJV translators was to make out of many good English translations one which would be exceptional and be accepted as the Authorized Version. Secondly no one during that time question the reliability or the accuracy of the KJV, and all the study helps (such as Strong's) and commentaries (such as Matthew Henry's, John Gill's, etc.) took the Authorized Version to be the Bible without question. All of Spurgeon's famous sermons (for example) were based on the KJV
    Essentially, that claim is simply an appeal to the majority.
    Well in this case it clearly proves that the majority were "KJV-Only" and there was no stigma attached to this Bible. It is only after 1881 (in England) and 1910 (in the USA) that the attacks came because of the critics, whose primary goal was to undermine the KJV and its underlying texts. But even those who promoted the RV or the RSV could not help but praise the KJV.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 1 Week Ago at 03:04 PM.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Not at all. Those are the facts of the case, whether you like it or not. The Authorized Version was "THE" Bible for all who used an English language Bible. Unless you can prove that another English language Bible prevailed for 300 years, you must accept that as the truth and as fact.

    Again you are ignoring the facts to support your position. Firstly the stated aim of the KJV translators was to make out of many good English translations one which would be exceptional and be accepted as the Authorized Version. Secondly no one during that time question the reliability or the accuracy of the KJV, and all the study helps (such as Strong's) and commentaries (such as Matthew Henry's, John Gill's, etc.) took the Authorized Version to be the Bible without question. All of Spurgeon's famous sermons (for example) were based on the KJV

    Well in this case it clearly proves that the majority were "KJV-Only" and there was no stigma attached to this Bible. It is only after 1881 (in England) and 1910 (in the USA) that the attacks came because of the critics, whose primary goal was to undermine the KJV and its underlying texts. But even those who promoted the RV or the RSV could not help but praise the KJV.
    Why is the word homosexual not found in the KJB? But found in other versions?

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