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Thread: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

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    Senior Member sparkman's Avatar
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    Default BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Sounds like a pair of oxymorons, doesn't it?

    Biblical heretics and cultists?

    Read Matthew 4. See that Satan loves to quote Scripture, but he quotes it out of context.

    I learned the hard way that nuts and heretics can quote Scripture, out of context, to "prove" their points. Additionally, they make a habit out of accusing the rest of Christianity of being false or deceived, in order to reinforce their heresies or bad doctrines.

    Biblical hermeneutics are important. The source of many heretical teachings involve context. The heretical teacher is ignoring context in some way. They create a "rabbit trail" that ignores the surrounding factors that would clarify the Scripture, and lead to a different conclusion than they are proposing. I recommend the book How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth by Gordon Fee in regards to understanding these contextual issues. It may save you from hanging around with kooks for a decade or more, until you learn that they are kooks. Their arguments can sound convincing, and still be false.

    Beware of them. Beware of any individuals who claim they have "the truth" and that the rest of Christianity (particularly evangelical Christianity) is false.

    Many groups that deny these truths are, in fact, accusing Christianity of being heretical or satanic. Often they have a conspiracy theory that accompanies their theology. Elements of it often claim that Constantine or the Roman Catholic Church is the source of the doctrinal error that they claim is part of Christianity.

    Also, check out the wide scope of what they believe before you get indoctrinated progressively by them. Are they denying essential Christian doctrine? Many of them deny the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the inspiration of Paul's writings, or claim that extra-biblical sources of information are authoritative or inspired.

    I often address the wider scope of their beliefs before letting them give me their spiel on a given topic. They certainly don't like that, because they want to convince you of one issue, before indoctrinating you into their other, much more heretical views. One doctrine that is convincing is used as a wedge to lead you into further error that is more obvious.

    I would define the essentials as these:

    1) the full deity of Jesus Christ
    2) monotheism (there is only one God)
    3) the doctrine of the Trinity or Triune nature of God
    4) justification by faith alone
    5) authority and inspiration of Scripture alone
    6) substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross
    7) original sin
    8) virgin birth
    9) bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
    10) eternal reward of the righteous and eternal
    punishment of the wicked at Christ's return

    These principles are so clearly taught in Scripture that they are undeniable. Could a younger believer be confused on these points? Certainly. But if someone claims to be a teacher and ignores them, there's a serious problem.

    Some will ask, what gives you the authority to define the essentials? First question I'd ask is, which point do you disagree with, and why? What additional point do you think belongs? The answer, if they will reply honestly, will tell you a lot about the root of their resistance. My answer is, these points are clearly taught in Scripture, and it is the ultimate authority. I have no authority to define the essentials but Scripture does. And neither does their organization or themselves have that authority.
    Last edited by sparkman; 1 Week Ago at 06:21 AM.
    wolfwint and TruthTalk like this.

    I worship YHVH who raises the spiritually dead, gives them spiritual life, and conforms them to His image. Keep your impotent semi-Pelagian god to yourself. He makes me retch.

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    Senior Member sparkman's Avatar
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    https://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Bibl...+all+its+worth

    Here's a URL to the book I recommend..the title was slightly wrong in the initial post

    Another great one is this book Grasping God's Word by J. Scott Duvall:

    https://www.amazon.com/Grasping-Gods...iel+hays+bibles=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1505125491&sr=1-1&keywords=j.+Daniel+hays+bible

    Both are going to concentrate on contextual issues and carefully examining God's word critically to understand what it is saying.

    I anticipate the remark that such an approach isn't relying on the Holy Spirit but rather on the words of men. I rely on the Holy Spirit for illuminating God's word, but He has gifted other brothers in Christ with the gift of teaching, and part of this gifting involves books like these.

    Such remarks are red herrings issued by individuals who are trying to sound super spiritual. I have little patience for red herrings. You might be able to feed them to the seagulls, though.
    TruthTalk likes this.

    I worship YHVH who raises the spiritually dead, gives them spiritual life, and conforms them to His image. Keep your impotent semi-Pelagian god to yourself. He makes me retch.

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    Member Hirokized's Avatar
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Wow. That was helpful

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    Senior Member sparkman's Avatar
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Forum participants should know that the accusations of heresy leveled at the Church don't stop at Roman Catholicism..there are several individuals here who believe that Protestants, including Evangelical Christians, are children of the "Great Whore" and are equally part of the Babylonian Mystery Religion. This was part of my belief system as a Sabbatarian, and the essence of this teaching is still held by other groups such as Armstrongites, Seventh Day Adventists, and some Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jew/"Torah Observer" groups...in essence, "Restorationist" groups who claim to be the restoration of the true "Apostolic" church.
    TruthTalk likes this.

    I worship YHVH who raises the spiritually dead, gives them spiritual life, and conforms them to His image. Keep your impotent semi-Pelagian god to yourself. He makes me retch.

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    Senior Member sparkman's Avatar
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirokized View Post
    Wow. That was helpful
    How are you doing lately? I haven't talked to you in a long time. Hope all is well. You can email me at [email protected] if you wish.

    I worship YHVH who raises the spiritually dead, gives them spiritual life, and conforms them to His image. Keep your impotent semi-Pelagian god to yourself. He makes me retch.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Yes, went some trial and stuffs, and I barely open my account.

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    Senior Member miknik5's Avatar
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Beware of those who offer any other FOUNDATION than the ONE laid

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    MrChris
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by miknik5 View Post
    Beware of those who offer any other FOUNDATION than the ONE laid
    REPENT! AND YE SHALL BE SAVED.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by MrChris View Post
    REPENT! AND YE SHALL BE SAVED.
    In the name of the LORD JESUS, repent and Ye shall be saved

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    Senior Member miknik5's Avatar
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Oh


    and be baptized

    If one is baptized into the LORD and reborn HIS SPIRIT

    Does any man have any power to undo what the LORD has done?

    john 3:8
    1 John 2:27

    truth?


    or not?

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkman View Post
    Biblical hermeneutics are important. The source of many heretical teachings involve context. The heretical teacher is ignoring context in some way. They create a "rabbit trail" that ignores the surrounding factors that would clarify the Scripture, and lead to a different conclusion than they are proposing. I recommend the book How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth by Gordon Fee in regards to understanding these contextual issues. It may save you from hanging around with kooks for a decade or more, until you learn that they are kooks. Their arguments can sound convincing, and still be false.

    Beware of them. Beware of any individuals who claim they have "the truth" and that the rest of Christianity (particularly evangelical Christianity) is false.

    I often address the wider scope of their beliefs before letting them give me their spiel on a given topic. They certainly don't like that, because they want to convince you of one issue, before indoctrinating you into their other, much more heretical views. One doctrine that is convincing is used as a wedge to lead you into further error that is more obvious.

    I would define the essentials as these:

    1) the full deity of Jesus Christ
    2) monotheism (there is only one God)
    3) the doctrine of the Trinity or Triune nature of God
    4) justification by faith alone
    5) authority and inspiration of Scripture alone
    6) substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross
    7) original sin
    8) virgin birth
    9) bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
    10) eternal reward of the righteous and eternal
    punishment of the wicked at Christ's return

    These principles are so clearly taught in Scripture that they are undeniable. Could a younger believer be confused on these points? Certainly. But if someone claims to be a teacher and ignores them, there's a serious problem.

    Some will ask, what gives you the authority to define the essentials? First question I'd ask is, which point do you disagree with, and why? What additional point do you think belongs? The answer, if they will reply honestly, will tell you a lot about the root of their resistance. My answer is, these points are clearly taught in Scripture, and it is the ultimate authority. I have no authority to define the essentials but Scripture does. And neither does their organization or themselves have that authority.
    Clarification on #3; How do you apply the doctrine of the Trinity Biblically? Because the Nicene creed includes the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but scripture declares the will of the Father in how anyone can approach Him by as well as honor Him by, and that is by ONLY honoring the Son as John 5:22-23 states. When they stop honoring the Son, they are no longer honoring the Father. Since the Holy Spirit is sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) through us ( John 15:27 ) and to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) then how can He do that except through us? That means He as a Witness, cannot lead us to speak of Himself to glorify Himself nor speak of the "Trinity" to glorify the Trinity, but only to bear witness of the Son to glorify the Son and by Him, God the Father. ( John 13:31-32 )

    The doctrine of the Trinity is not evil by itself, but how one applies it in going against scripture in how to come to God the Father in worship is evil when it broadens the way and thus going around the Son as some hymnals do by addressing only the Holy Spirit in worship and not just addressing the Trinity.

    The doctrine of the Trinity is true, but the Nicene creed and other applying that doctrine as a license to broaden the way we come to God the Father in worship to include the Holy Spirit when the Son is the only way to come to God the Father by in honoring Him by honoring & glorifying the Son Whose name is above every other name. That is the "obedience" Paul was talking about in Philippians 2:5-13.

    Clarification; which Bible version do you go with for #5? It is important because not all Bibles are saying the same thing. Indeed, some changes in the message actually supports false teachings and even false tongues that comes by apostasy.

    When all Bibles testify in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues as a personal prayer language back to God and yet all MODERN Bible versions implies that in Romans 8:26-27, that the Holy Spirit CAN utter His own intercessions and that sounds can be heard doing so....except the KJV where His intercessions are unspeakable that His groaning cannot be uttered for why the "he" in verse 27 knows the mind of the Spirit to give the intercessions of the Spirit's for Him to God the Father as that "he" is the only Mediator between God & men.

    So modern Bibles may have the truth about how the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but Romans 8:26-27 leads believers to not see that truth in John 16:13 or regard it as if God did not really mean that, because they want to believe that extra experience they had where they felt what they believed was the Holy Spirit coming over them apart from salvation was of God along with that tongue it has brought but never comes with interpretation, and so they assume it is a prayer language of the Holy Spirit and all modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27 supports that false notion and that false tongue.

    There are other changes in modern Bibles that have changed the message in the KJV as declining from the testimonies of the Son, and so to avoid heresies, do you say that it does not matter when modern Bibles are being used to support false teachings?

    Clarification on #10 Is that a slight towards the belief for the pre tribulation rapture or what? I can see it as God's judging His House at the pre trib rapture event where the righteous are received as vessels unto honor; which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus and the eternal punishment or damnation on those saints found in unrepentant iniquity and thus reprobate/disqualified and therefore become castaways to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

    Then there is the eternal punishment of those who received the mark of the beast after the great tribulation. ( Not sure if they get it right then or at the white throne judgment later on when all the rest of the dead are judged. ) Those saints that went through the great tribulation ( the saints left behind & new believers ) will be resurrected to serve the King of kings in raising up the generations coming out of the millennium reign of Christ all over the world.

    Anyway, just wondering if you are stating a post trib rapture/judgment event (which will happen ) but overlooking when God will judge His House first at the pre trib rapture event because of the falling away from the faith? 1 Peter 4:17-19

    I reckon I am saying that not everything that you have listed as essential is cut and dry wherein no clarification is needed.
    Nehemiah6 likes this.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by miknik5 View Post
    Oh


    and be baptized

    If one is baptized into the LORD and reborn HIS SPIRIT

    Does any man have any power to undo what the LORD has done?

    john 3:8
    1 John 2:27

    truth?


    or not?
    The early church fathers,apostles,were obcessed with the power of the Holy Spirit,or second baptism.

    The modern church omits it.

    Sad. Gross,gross error and huge mistake. How did we come to this?????

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    The same thinking that tells one God doesn't heal or prosper His people.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    ..
    Clarification; which Bible version do you go with for #5? It is important because not all Bibles are saying the same thing. Indeed, some changes in the message actually supports false teachings and even false tongues that comes by apostasy.

    ...except the KJV where ...

    There are other changes in modern Bibles that have changed the message in the KJV ...
    So... in a thread about "Biblical heretics and cultists" you make an assertion implying that the KJV is the only reliable translation of the Bible. Do you happen to see the problem with this? In case it has not occurred to you, the KJV is not the standard against which all other translations are measured. The KJV and every other translation must be measured against the best-available manuscript evidence.

    Perhaps where a position is held dogmatically on the basis of one translation's rendering, it should be held lightly instead, because it probably isn't a core doctrine.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by heartofdavid View Post
    The early church fathers,apostles,were obcessed with the power of the Holy Spirit,or second baptism.

    The modern church omits it.

    Sad. Gross,gross error and huge mistake. How did we come to this?????
    There is no 2nd baptism taught in the bible and also not taught in churchhistorie, till the pentecostal movement arose. So why we should follow such a doctrine?

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    The same thinking that tells one God doesn't heal or prosper His people.
    If so then many non believers are blessed from God
    Why Paul must leave follow co- workers sick back?
    God heals today too, no question! But what is promissed from many preachers today about health and wealth is just a lie. And destroyes the faith of many people.
    Enow and hornetguy like this.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwint View Post
    There is no 2nd baptism taught in the bible and also not taught in churchhistorie, till the pentecostal movement arose. So why we should follow such a doctrine?
    The montanists were in some ways similar to pentecostals.

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    Perhaps where a position is held dogmatically on the basis of one translation's rendering, it should be held lightly instead, because it probably isn't a core doctrine.
    While the core doctrine is the inspiration, inerrancy, infallibility and supreme authority of the Word of God, when there are 100 different English translations all competing to be "the standard", Christians must understand that they cannot all be true, since the deviations from the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts are in the thousands. Since the KJV (and the Geneva Bible) are the only English language Bibles based upon the traditional texts, many churches and Christians have included in their statements of faith that for them the Authorized Version (KJV) is the only Bible which may rightly be called "the Word of God".

    Christians have not been generally told that all modern Bible versions since 1881 are based upon corrupt manuscripts, which then makes their "Bibles" corruptions of the Word of God. And every word in important, since "every word of God is pure".
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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogadile View Post
    The montanists were in some ways similar to pentecostals.
    Yes, i know about this movement from the 2nd century

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    Default Re: BEWARE OF "BIBLICAL" HERETICS AND CULTISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    So... in a thread about "Biblical heretics and cultists" you make an assertion implying that the KJV is the only reliable translation of the Bible. Do you happen to see the problem with this? In case it has not occurred to you, the KJV is not the standard against which all other translations are measured. The KJV and every other translation must be measured against the best-available manuscript evidence.

    Perhaps where a position is held dogmatically on the basis of one translation's rendering, it should be held lightly instead, because it probably isn't a core doctrine.
    Consider this point of truth. The so called lost books of the Bible were not considered part of scripture because what was written in it was running against the accepted scripture in the accepted Book of the Bible.

    Now when not all Bibles are saying the same thing; which Bible are you to rely on for the truth in His words as far as maintaining truth as lining up with all the truths in that Bible? It can be done.

    John 16:13 in ALL BIBLES testify that the Holy Spirit CANNOT SPEAK for HIMSELF, BUT speaks what He hears. That lines up with scripture that testifies that God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 )

    THAT MEAN the Holy Spirit CANNOT use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people of what He hears and turn it around for His own personal use by means of praying back to God.

    Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV is the only Bible ( 1599 Geneva Bible too if you discount the errant marginal notes ) to line up with John 16:13 in citing in Romans 8:26, that the intercessions of the Holy Spirit, even though He makes them for us, He cannot utter them nor speak them as even His groaning cannot be uttered.

    That is why in verse 27 is a testimony of the Son making those silent intercessions for the Holy Spirit by knowing the mind of the Spirit in the same way that Jesus searches our hearts as Hebrews 4:12-16 confirms.

    So what Bible do you want? Something that is by propaganda is easier to read than the KJV or a Bible that maintains the truths in His words as lining up with the rest of scripture.

    You can forget all that KJVONLYISM as that is nothing but some smoke and mirrors spun by the devil for everybody to not even consider that the KJV is the one keeping the meat of His words for us to discern good & evil by it for keeping the faith which is the good fight.

    Like it or not, all modern Bibles are supporting false tongues and false teachings whereas the KJV is not.

    And yes, I am fully aware that believers can go astray by use of the KJV, but at least I can TELL you that only by the KJV can I correct them by His actual words than the modern Bibles that makes everybody wonders if God really meant that in John 16:13 because of Romans 8:26-27 in that modern Bible.

    If you disagree, then I have to say for all that antiKJV prejudices out there, it is amazing how you are not considering the lost books as gospels too, but if you do not, THEN YOU HAVE TO USE THE SAME DISCERNMENT when truth in one part of scripture does not line up with what the other scripture says when truth is opposing it BECAUSE NOT ALL Bibles are saying the same thing.

    Can you lead people to Christ with other Bibles? Yes.

    Can you correct or expose the works of darkness with other Bibles? NO!!! Only the KJV can do that with Christ's help.

    The KJV is NOT a magical book BUT if you want to expose ALL works of darkness by HIM, then you have to use His actual words of truth. There is no other way.
    Nehemiah6 likes this.

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