The trumpet blast

[MrChris]

When we die if our spirits unite with God in heaven instantaneously, then why can't these people in heaven communicate with the believers on earth. If all the prophet's and apostles are up there now, why are they silent?

Maybe because their not in heaven with God, maybe they are still asleep in death, waiting for the trumpet blast.

 

[Yonah]

That's what the scripture actually teaches.... but not a popular view I'm afraid.... but then again some truth is like that.... not many will receive it.

 

[EarsToHear]

The answers, as always, are found in His Word.

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

LUKE 16:19-31
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[MrChris]

That's what the scripture actually teaches.... but not a popular view I'm afraid.... but then again some truth is like that.... not many will receive it.

Thanks for you comment Yonah.

 

[MrChris]

The answers, as always, are found in His Word.

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

LUKE 16:19-31
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I didn't open this thread to start a debate. Really I didn't, my aim was to either have my theory about the lack of communications from long past Bible folk debunked or proven.

I can then go from there.

 

[Willie-T]

And in all this, I fear we are forgetting one important thing.... time only exists for living mortals. To all others, it appears to have no effect, whatsoever.

 

[EarsToHear]

I didn't open this thread to start a debate. Really I didn't, my aim was to either have my theory about the lack of communications from long past Bible folk debunked or proven.

I can then go from there.

Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.


Jesus is telling us that there will be no excuses when He returns. Why? because he has told you everything that will happen in His Word. It is written there and given in many different witnesses If you have refused to study His Word than you have chosen to reject His Word. It simply doesn't matter what your preacher says, but what matters is what Christ said. Have you read His Word with understanding?


Also, have you ever considered that God and all those who have passed away are in another dimension?

 

[MrChris]

And in all this, I fear we are forgetting one important thing.... time only exists for living mortals. To all others, it appears to have no effect, whatsoever.

Let the feast of a thousand paradox's begin.

 

[Karraster]

John 5;28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice

 

[Locutus]

Yer just need to turn yer spiritual telly off the main channel...

 

[MrChris]

Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.


Jesus is telling us that there will be no excuses when He returns. Why? because he has told you everything that will happen in His Word. It is written there and given in many different witnesses If you have refused to study His Word than you have chosen to reject His Word. It simply doesn't matter what your preacher says, but what matters is what Christ said. Have you read His Word with understanding?


Also, have you ever considered that God and all those who have passed away are in another dimension?

Yes, I thought left and right about space time and all things pertaining to heavenly spaces.

As for the other stuff you talked about, am I supposed to prove my faith to man or God?

 

[Willie-T]

Do any of us honestly believe it is circulating blood and firing electrons that create and sustain "life force?" We are somehow still connected to God's power, even after our flesh and bones have rotted away. Good or bad, we will all be resurrected to some kind of continuing "life."

 

[zeroturbulence]

LUKE 16:19-31
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You beat me to it!

 

[MrChris]

Do any of us honestly believe it is circulating blood and firing electrons that create and sustain "life force?" We are somehow still connected to God's power, even after our flesh and bones have rotted away. Good or bad, we will all be resurrected to some kind of continuing "life."

He can rebuild us.

 

[EarsToHear]

Yes, I thought left and right about space time and all things pertaining to heavenly spaces.

As for the other stuff you talked about, am I supposed to prove my faith to man or God?

Man has nothing to do with your faith or your salvation. It's between you and our Heavenly Father.


Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[MrChris]

Man has nothing to do with your faith or your salvation. It's between you and our Heavenly Father.


Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Well it's always today in paradise.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When we die if our spirits unite with God in heaven instantaneously, then why can't these people in heaven communicate with the believers on earth. If all the prophet's and apostles are up there now, why are they silent?

Because if they were not, they would come down on you like a ton of bricks! Just kidding. No, it is simply not God's will for anyone to communicate with you other than God Himself.

Maybe because their not in heaven with God, maybe they are still asleep in death, waiting for the trumpet blast.

Now you are getting into dangerous speculation and false doctrine. "Sleep" for the saints is simply a metaphor for physical death, since the body lies in the grave in repose, giving the appearance of sleep. Ever since the resurrection of Christ, every Christian goes directly to Heaven to be with the Lord. That is, his soul and spirit. And he is very much alive in the presence of God. But the body turns to dust, awaiting the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints. There are cults which teach the false doctrine of Soul Sleep, so take some time to study the Bible regarding this matter.

 

[MrChris]

Because if they were not, they would come down on you like a ton of bricks! Just kidding. No, it is simply not God's will for anyone to communicate with you other than God Himself.


Now you are getting into dangerous speculation and false doctrine. "Sleep" for the saints is simply a metaphor for physical death, since the body lies in the grave in repose, giving the appearance of sleep. Ever since the resurrection of Christ, every Christian goes directly to Heaven to be with the Lord. That is, his soul and spirit. And he is very much alive in the presence of God. But the body turns to dust, awaiting the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints. There are cults which teach the false doctrine of Soul Sleep, so take some time to study the Bible regarding this matter.

Ah, ok, I understand that. But we're in heaven with God immediately after we die? What happens to those who are not saved, are they in heaven with those who are saved. Are we disembodied spirits floating around in heaven.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Ah, ok, I understand that. But we're in heaven with God immediately after we die? What happens to those who are not saved, are they in heaven with those who are saved. Are we disembodied spirits floating around in heaven.

MrChris,
Heaven is for those who belong to Christ. He is in them (in Spirit), and they are in Him. Since He is now in Heaven bodily, they go to be with Him. But those who are not saved, are not in the family of God, and their souls and spirits go to Hades to await their final judgment. And Hades is a place of torment, but not comparable to the eternal torments of Hell (the Lake of Fire).

There will come a time when there will be a Resurrection of Damnation, and these unsaved individuals will all stand before God and be judged. Since their names will not be found in the Lamb's Book of Life, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, which was prepared for the Devil and his angels.

So if you know people who are not saved, you should urge them to get saved immediately. To repent and be converted, and to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[MarcR]

When we die if our spirits unite with God in heaven instantaneously, then why can't these people in heaven communicate with the believers on earth. If all the prophet's and apostles are up there now, why are they silent?

Maybe because their not in heaven with God, maybe they are still asleep in death, waiting for the trumpet blast.

In 1Th 4:16 we are told that the dead in Christ remain in the ground until the rapture.

In John's Revelation, the only mention of disembodied spirits refers to those beheaded for rejecting the mark of the beast.

In the grave there is no time so the rapture will seem instantaneous.