Exploring the depth of Grace that ain’t greasy

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unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
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#1
H2580 Old Testament Grace חֵן chên khane; from graciousness, i.e. subjective (kindness, favor) or objective (beauty):—favour, grace(-ious), pleasant, precious, (well-) favoured.
The following two verses describe חֵן. (Grace) i.e. separation (a hedge of protection) through Christ Jesus.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” (2 Corinthians 6:17)
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,” (2 Thessalonians 2:16)

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.” (1 Peter 2:1-3)
Our desire for the Word of God gives us His grace.

And the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David king over the house of Judah. And they told David, saying, That the men of Jabeshgilead were they that buried Saul. And David sent messengers unto the men of Jabeshgilead, and said unto them, Blessed be ye of the Lord, that ye have shewed this kindness unto your lord, even unto Saul, and have buried him. And now the Lord shew kindness and truth unto you: and I also will requite you this kindness, because ye have done this thing.” (2 Samuel 2:4-6)
If we show others grace, then God shows us His grace.

And I will give this people favour in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty.” (Exodus 3:21)
God shows grace to His children in the sight of the world.

And let the beauty of the Lord our God be upon us: and establish thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish thou it.” (Psalm 90:17)
Pray for His grace to guide us in all that we do.

And of Naphtali he said, O Naphtali, satisfied with favour, and full with the blessing of the Lord: possess thou the west and the south. (Deuteronomy 33:23)
Possessing what God’s grace has promised.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” (Ephesians 2:8 )
God’s grace is a gift that comes from Him only.

He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path. When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:” (Proverbs 2:8-11)
We find grace in wisdom and knowledge of His Word. We live by every Word, not just some of His Word, that He delivers, and has already delivered to us.

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,” (1 Peter 2:6-7)
The grace of Jesus Christ is given to those who are obedient and are not discombobulated by distorting His Word.

Remember me, O Lord, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;” (Psalm 106:4)
Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.” (Proverbs 13:15)
Good understanding gives us grace that leads us to salvation.
 
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davida

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2017
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#2
Why is this grace not extended to all?
 

unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
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#4
Why is this grace not extended to all?
It is, but only if we desire it. God is waiting for a loving response that leads us to a loving camaraderie with Him, not that we love Him, but He loved us first.
Whosoever
believes.
(John 3:16)

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men," (Titus 2:11)

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
(Jeremiah 29:13)

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." (Matthew 7:7-8)

God doesn't pick and choose who He wants, and then disregards everybody else. He offered, and now it's our choice (free will is the way He/they created Adam and Eve).

Some religious beliefs preach that we have no choice. That's definitely not true, for... "
Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: (Acts 10:34b)

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." (Joshua 24:15)






 
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Mar 23, 2016
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#5
H2580 Old Testament Grace חֵן chên khane; from graciousness, i.e. subjective (kindness, favor) or objective (beauty):—favour, grace(-ious), pleasant, precious, (well-) favoured.

The following two verses describe חֵן. (Grace) i.e. separation (a hedge of protection) through Christ Jesus.
H2580 grace (חֵן chên) is equivalent to G5485 (χάρις charis). In agreement that God's grace is the same under OC as it is under NC. And, as you have indicated, grace is kindness, favor, pleasant, precious, well-favored.

However, in my understanding grace does not separate or place a hedge of protection.

To me, that is sanctify (H6942 קָדַשׁ qadash), to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate:

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.

Exodus 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and beast: it is mine.



In the Greek, sanctify (G37 ἁγιάζω hagiazō) means to separate from profane things and dedicate to God:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.



I do agree that God in His great kindness (grace), has separated out (sanctified) His people. In our day and time, the believers are separated out from the world through the Holy Spirit given unto them.


 

unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
916
25
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#6

H2580 grace (חֵן chên) is equivalent to G5485 (χάρις charis). In agreement that God's grace is the same under OC as it is under NC. And, as you have indicated, grace is kindness, favor, pleasant, precious, well-favored.

However, in my understanding grace does not separate or place a hedge of protection.

To me, that is sanctify (H6942 קָדַשׁ qadash), to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate:

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.

Exodus 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and beast: it is mine.



In the Greek, sanctify (G37 ἁγιάζω hagiazō) means to separate from profane things and dedicate to God:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.



I do agree that God in His great kindness (grace), has separated out (sanctified) His people. In our day and time, the believers are separated out from the world through the Holy Spirit given unto them.
I agree that sanctify means to be holy and set apart.

The ancient Hebrew letter chet
(חֵ) is a picture of a "tent wall," indicating, "outside," and "divide." It can be noted in Job that Satan tells God that Job has "a hedge" around him, and that's why he is so substantial, simply because God has bless him by His grace.

Yes. "Sanctify" does mean to be separated away from things unholy. I should have used your vision for a better understanding, and simply wrote...
H2580 Old Testament Grace חֵן means "separation through Christ Jesus." :eek:

This Hebrew letter "chet"
(חֵ) is the 8th in the Aleph Beyt (alphabet). Considering grace and sanctification, eight people were saved from the Flood (Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives). These eight people represented a new beginning for mankind after the world was destroyed by water. Not only that, the covenant with Abraham was confirmed by circumcision on the 8th day after birth.

"
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," (Romans 4:16)


 
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davida

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2017
115
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#7
I don't want to be spoken to in a harsh manner I just got my head bit off by someone and I agree with one thing she said. She is no lady.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,426
12,911
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#8
Why is this grace not extended to all?
Anyone who claims that grace is NOT extended to all is contradicting Scripture. Please note (for those who doubt this truth):

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. (Titus 2:11-13)
 

davida

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2017
115
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0
#9
So I won't bother anyone with questions
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,538
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#11
Weird ............. what exactly is "greasy Grace?" As you say your OP deals with Grace that ain't greasy..........??? Weird
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,426
12,911
113
#12
So I won't bother anyone with questions
I don't believe you were the one who was mentioned earlier. Just keep those questions coming, and don't forget to provide some answers also. Do not be intimidated by negativity of any kind.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,426
12,911
113
#13
Weird ............. what exactly is "greasy Grace?" As you say your OP deals with Grace that ain't greasy..........??? Weird
You're right. We've all heard of "greasy spoon" cooking and how delicious it is, but "Greasy Grace"?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#14
I don't want to be spoken to in a harsh manner I just got my head bit off by someone and I agree with one thing she said. She is no lady.
Sounds like you might have tangled with*Depleted.*
 

unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
916
25
18
#15
Weird ............. what exactly is "greasy Grace?" As you say your OP deals with Grace that ain't greasy..........??? Weird
You're right. We've all heard of "greasy spoon" cooking and how delicious it is, but "Greasy Grace"?
Something that is really hard to stand on without falling down. Slippery fictional grace, man's contrived interpretation thereof. Grace void of real substance. Something that cannot hold you up when you slip. That enough?
 
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Mar 23, 2016
6,835
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#16
I agree that sanctify means to be holy and set apart.

The ancient Hebrew letter chet (חֵ) is a picture of a "tent wall," indicating, "outside," and "divide." It can be noted in Job that Satan tells God that Job has "a hedge" around him, and that's why he is so substantial, simply because God has bless him by His grace.

Yes. "Sanctify" does mean to be separated away from things unholy. I should have used your vision for a better understanding, and simply wrote... H2580 Old Testament Grace חֵן means "separation through Christ Jesus." :eek:
In OT, the word "grace" (Hebrew chên) means kindness, favor, pleasant, precious, well-favored. The Hebrew chên is equivalent to the NT Greek charis).

In OT, the word "sanctify" (Hebrew qadash) means to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate. The Hebrew qadash is equivalent to the NT Greek hagiazō.

That the Hebrew word chên begins with a letter which is a picture of a "tent wall," indicating "outside," and "divide" does not change the meaning of the word "grace"

from

kindness, favor, pleasant, precious, well-favored​

to

consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed,
be holy, be sanctified, be separate.​




unobtrusive said:
This Hebrew letter "chet" (חֵ) is the 8th in the Aleph Beyt (alphabet). Considering grace and sanctification, eight people were saved from the Flood (Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives). These eight people represented a new beginning for mankind after the world was destroyed by water. Not only that, the covenant with Abraham was confirmed by circumcision on the 8th day after birth.
Gen 6:8 tells us that Noah found grace (Heb. chên) in the sight of the Lord.

And through the grace of God, Noah was separated out (sanctified) from the rest of those who perished in the flood.




unobtrusive said:
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," (Romans 4:16)
Yes, the promise was through the righteousness of faith (Rom 4:13).

Rom 4:11 tells us that Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
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#17
I don't want to be spoken to in a harsh manner I just got my head bit off by someone and I agree with one thing she said. She is no lady.
Davida,

There are a few on the forum who are able to remember that debate is not an excuse for bad manners.

It is also true that the nature of a forum to attack ideas to see if the ideas stand up to being challenged.

Many on the forum have not learned to confine their attacks to ideas; and attack the people who put them forward.

This is unfortunate; but in unmoderated debate there is no remedy for it.

You should say what you think; ask questions and learn, and ignore the rudeness and ugliness.

Welcome to CC.
 

unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
916
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#18
Adhering to a grace for the reason of receiving blessings is a "greasy grace." There's actually no God given grace in that misguided desire whatsoever, even if the preacher said you will be blessed by contributing to his ministry.

The grace of God is given to the sincere heart that clearly realizes they don't deserve it, while their sole desire is that of wanting to be loved deep down inside. It comes from a heart that understands that love was first founded by the Almighty God who is love. Grace is given to a person that has come to the point that nothing else but love really matters any more. Then the grace of God becomes real.

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love" (1 John 4:8)

Ya gotta know the love of God for real in order to receive His grace. It's a personal thing, One on one.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#19
Adhering to a grace for the reason of receiving blessings is a "greasy grace." There's actually no God given grace in that misguided desire whatsoever, even if the preacher said you will be blessed by contributing to his ministry.

The grace of God is given to the sincere heart that clearly realizes they don't deserve it, while their sole desire is that of wanting to be loved deep down inside. It comes from a heart that understands that love was first founded by the Almighty God who is love. Grace is given to a person that has come to the point that nothing else but love really matters any more. Then the grace of God becomes real.

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love" (1 John 4:8)

Ya gotta know the love of God for real in order to receive His grace. It's a personal thing, One on one.
I agree completely. We should not look to have expected behavior rewarded. That does not change the fact that God does bless habitual obedience. He does so not because we seek or expect reward; but because He desires that our joy be made full. If we obey seeking reward God will work on changing our attitude. If we delight in pleasing God because we love Him and appreciate what He has already done for us; He will bless us because we don't seek or feel entitled to reward. God not only knows what we do but He also knows our motivations.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#20
Weird ............. what exactly is "greasy Grace?" As you say your OP deals with Grace that ain't greasy..........??? Weird
You're right. We've all heard of "greasy spoon" cooking and how delicious it is, but "Greasy Grace"?
Just a part of the hyper grace argument. Another nasty way of hating those who trust wholly in Gods grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger