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Thread: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

  1. #1
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Basic Premise: The Bible is the absolute standard of truth and ANYTHING that contradicts it is a lie or an error.


    Premise: One function of a forum is to attack ideas to see if they can withstand a challenge.


    What should happen is that the attacks are directed exclusively at the ideas and NEVER at the people who hold them or seek to test them. Otherwise we ignore Jesus' command to love our enemies. Not only that; but, there is no reason to make an enemy of everyone we disagree with.

    Premise: Another function of a forum is to share blessings and thereby uplift one another.

    Blessings are not arguable! if you are not uplifted you have no right to spoil the blessing for someone else.

    If you disagree with something someone shares as a blessing start another thread to discuss your thoughts.


    Premise: Basic rules of grammar and syntax are not debatable and and definitions are debatable only within established lexical rules.

    Otherwise we are not speaking the same language.


    What I have set forth are a few rules of formal debate that are universally accepted in formal debate.

    Since a forum is not formal debate there is no way of enforcing them here but we can each agree to impose them on ourselves.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    seems like fair rules of engagement

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Amen MarcR., A good reminder is always needed to be kind to each other while discussing the Bible - of all things! Is there any other discussion that should be metered in and by the love of Jesus?!

    Should this above many issues show us how close or far we are in the knowledge of love of Christ being active in our lives? If we can't even discuss the Bible without getting lethal with each other than there is a major problem going on that we each personally need to address.

    So often we can come here and present something uplifting and encouraging only to be met with suspicion and antagonism. That is not why I come here to CC. There is no way to present a complete Bible truth in just one post. We can present Bible verses and what we have learned or what we believe but we can't do it completely.

    It takes time and study. Learning is a process. Getting to know someone is a process. And also., giving each other the benefit of the doubt is also major in this process. Also., we will not always come to the same conclusions. The truth is much bigger than one person can understand.

    If a brother or sister doesn't see the Bible exactly the same as you do than it's not our job to change them. The Holy Spirit is well able to teach and guide. He doesn't need us to hammer a point home into someone's head giving them a major headache.

    It's a calming relief to me to see how the Holy Spirit works in us. He is not in a hurry. He doesn't get worked up and He is not impatient. He doesn't lose His temper or insist we learn a truth at the very moment it's presented. He gives us time and makes the effort to love us where we are. How GREAT is that!!

    Thanks Marc for this reminder. I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Posting on CC becomes very uplifting when we let the Holy Spirit lead in love. It's easy to get annoyed at people or fed up with people and be led by our emotions. But it's not so easy to learn how to love people and stay in that process. That takes a work of the Holy Spirit and our willingness to look away from ourselves.
    Blain, MarcR, Dino246 and 2 others like this.

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    Senior Member Blain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    You know when I first joined cc the bible discussion forum was the first forum I started to really interact in, I was almost run off when I saw how the chaos in this place was but I hung in there and of course being a brand new Christian didn't help at all as I came for help in growing and understanding and in my being new was wrong about a lot of things and instead of being confronted with guidance I was mainly confronted with the status quo you see here day to day.

    Luckily God helped me to be able to build up thicker skin and even learn how to learn from those who attack or mock or are just unkindly in general but not everyone is the same I have known many who were run off from this place and some I kept in contact with and found a few even stopped being a Christian because of this. The anger that boiled up inside me was so intense that it took everything I had not to blow up on the bible discussion forum, I have warned so much the kind of power our words have and how many people browse this forum and see our everyday conduct, I have warned about how this kind of thing could happen and I felt like no one cared about what I said because even though I know plenty of people have seen my words about this it was as if they either didn't understand the dangers of acting like this or they just didn't care.

    As I have said before we who bear the name Christian we who claim to be love are called to love be love and to show who love truly is we are not called to mock and to attack or to speak viciously to each other. Most of us are adults and as such should not act like children in our quarrels with each other, if we cannot debate in a mature loving manner then should we even be debating? I have seen people here who have been saved for 30 plus years act in an unkindly and immature manner on a day to day basis than some who have been saved for say 2 years or less and I am not innocent in sometimes acting as I should not but I think if we as a whole really wanted to then we could change things here we don't need mods to keep us in line because we have free will we choose whether or not show fathers light and his heart.

    even heated fiery debates have a purpose because even if one is responding and discussing with each other in a loving manner things still can get heated but if the debate becomes nothing but attacks and mocking and accusations then that debate has long lost it's meaning and purpose. bates are to help us to learn grow and connect with each other if we forget this then we have lost any reason to debate, you cannot disguise a thread of war as a iron sharpening iron or edification because it isn't that difficult tell the difference between that and an all out war. Many claim to debate and make threads for the sake of the truth but the fruits of the people debating and the thread makers say another story entirely.

    Here is the thing, there is always going to be someone who believes differently than you do there will always be someone who can see the same verse as you and see it saying something entirely different and there is always going to be people who do not always act as they should but that does not mean that they are your enemies and are not saved as many are accused of not being saved far to often here. Only still waters can calm the blazing fires in peoples eyes and hearts and only love can overcome anger and dispute, before you enter the bible discussion forum you must be aware that the reason and motives of our hearts is always the deciding factor in anything in both life and in faith.
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    The strongest among you may not wear a crown

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    You know when I first joined cc the bible discussion forum was the first forum I started to really interact in, I was almost run off when I saw how the chaos in this place was but I hung in there and of course being a brand new Christian didn't help at all as I came for help in growing and understanding and in my being new was wrong about a lot of things and instead of being confronted with guidance I was mainly confronted with the status quo you see here day to day.

    Luckily God helped me to be able to build up thicker skin and even learn how to learn from those who attack or mock or are just unkindly in general but not everyone is the same I have known many who were run off from this place and some I kept in contact with and found a few even stopped being a Christian because of this. The anger that boiled up inside me was so intense that it took everything I had not to blow up on the bible discussion forum, I have warned so much the kind of power our words have and how many people browse this forum and see our everyday conduct, I have warned about how this kind of thing could happen and I felt like no one cared about what I said because even though I know plenty of people have seen my words about this it was as if they either didn't understand the dangers of acting like this or they just didn't care.

    As I have said before we who bear the name Christian we who claim to be love are called to love be love and to show who love truly is we are not called to mock and to attack or to speak viciously to each other. Most of us are adults and as such should not act like children in our quarrels with each other, if we cannot debate in a mature loving manner then should we even be debating? I have seen people here who have been saved for 30 plus years act in an unkindly and immature manner on a day to day basis than some who have been saved for say 2 years or less and I am not innocent in sometimes acting as I should not but I think if we as a whole really wanted to then we could change things here we don't need mods to keep us in line because we have free will we choose whether or not show fathers light and his heart.

    even heated fiery debates have a purpose because even if one is responding and discussing with each other in a loving manner things still can get heated but if the debate becomes nothing but attacks and mocking and accusations then that debate has long lost it's meaning and purpose. bates are to help us to learn grow and connect with each other if we forget this then we have lost any reason to debate, you cannot disguise a thread of war as a iron sharpening iron or edification because it isn't that difficult tell the difference between that and an all out war. Many claim to debate and make threads for the sake of the truth but the fruits of the people debating and the thread makers say another story entirely.

    Here is the thing, there is always going to be someone who believes differently than you do there will always be someone who can see the same verse as you and see it saying something entirely different and there is always going to be people who do not always act as they should but that does not mean that they are your enemies and are not saved as many are accused of not being saved far to often here. Only still waters can calm the blazing fires in peoples eyes and hearts and only love can overcome anger and dispute, before you enter the bible discussion forum you must be aware that the reason and motives of our hearts is always the deciding factor in anything in both life and in faith.



    Amen good post Blain., I agree 100% with you.
    Blain likes this.

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    When all else fails, we can hurl insults at each other...



    Angela53510 and joefizz like this.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    When all else fails, we can hurl insults at each other...




    Oh yeah!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Basic Premise: The Bible is the absolute standard of truth and ANYTHING that contradicts it is a lie or an error.
    Agreed! This is why teachings of special divine revelation must be rejected. Many today are on this path with the likes of Beth Moore and other false teachers leading them astray.


    Premise: One function of a forum is to attack ideas to see if they can withstand a challenge.


    What should happen is that the attacks are directed exclusively at the ideas and NEVER at the people who hold them or seek to test them. Otherwise we ignore Jesus' command to love our enemies. Not only that; but, there is no reason to make an enemy of everyone we disagree with.
    Yes, agreed. Now, some will also make themselves and enemy because of challenging their teachings, divine revelations &c. They would fare well to think otherwise.

    Premise: Another function of a forum is to share blessings and thereby uplift one another.

    Blessings are not arguable! if you are not uplifted you have no right to spoil the blessing for someone else.

    If you disagree with something someone shares as a blessing start another thread to discuss your thoughts.


    Premise: Basic rules of grammar and syntax are not debatable and and definitions are debatable only within established lexical rules.

    Otherwise we are not speaking the same language.


    What I have set forth are a few rules of formal debate that are universally accepted in formal debate.

    Since a forum is not formal debate there is no way of enforcing them here but we can each agree to impose them on ourselves.
    Good stuff, thanks for sharing sir.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Oh yeah!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    Yeah!!!




    Ooommmph!!!
    preacher4truth and joefizz like this.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Oh yeah!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


    Yeah!!!


    joefizz likes this.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

  11. #11
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Yeah!!!




    Ooommmph!!!
    Uh-huh! Here ya go!


    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member Yonah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

    This scripture among others show the proper way we should treat our fellow man, whether or not they believe the same things we do, I realize that this forum is in text and not sound however that word rendered hear, is the Hebrew word shema and it means much more then simply hearing as a sound, but rather listening and giving careful consideration of what is being presented.
    We all see things posted here that challenge our current understanding of scripture, as well as challenge us in other ways, such as we may feel it a needful thing to defend what we understand, the fact is the truth needs no defense but rather a patient and kind realization that we all are in different stages of growth.
    These challenges give us a chance to grow in character as well, or if we choose we give into the carnal nature and it degenerates into argument and insult, both of which are counterproductive to everyone.
    Our Savior was meek and lowly in heart and we are to follow His example of character, because he knows what we each face and desires our growth to be from glory to glory in Him.
    Excellent post brother. thank you I needed to read it today, its easy to allow the cares of this world to be instrumental in taking our eyes off of our Beloved King.
    MarcR, 1ofthem and joaniemarie like this.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Uh-huh! Here ya go!



    Oh no you don't. I'll help myself.


    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Uh-huh! Here ya go!


    Don't worry...I have sumptin' up my sleeve...

    preacher4truth and joefizz like this.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Uh-huh! Here ya go!



    preacher4truth and joefizz like this.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Serious Christian discussion becomes meme war. I like it.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    This has become a violent thread!!
    MarcR, 1ofthem and joefizz like this.

  18. #18
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by joaniemarie View Post
    This has become a violent thread!!
    Humor has its place. The cartoons are not promoting violence they are mocking it.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Humor has its place. The cartoons are not promoting violence they are mocking it.


    I was playing along too. Sorry., much gets lost in translation to print here.
    Dino246, 1ofthem and joefizz like this.

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    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts On The Nature of Christian Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Basic Premise: The Bible is the absolute standard of truth and ANYTHING that contradicts it is a lie or an error.


    Premise: One function of a forum is to attack ideas to see if they can withstand a challenge.


    What should happen is that the attacks are directed exclusively at the ideas and NEVER at the people who hold them or seek to test them. Otherwise we ignore Jesus' command to love our enemies. Not only that; but, there is no reason to make an enemy of everyone we disagree with.

    Premise: Another function of a forum is to share blessings and thereby uplift one another.

    Blessings are not arguable! if you are not uplifted you have no right to spoil the blessing for someone else.

    If you disagree with something someone shares as a blessing start another thread to discuss your thoughts.


    Premise: Basic rules of grammar and syntax are not debatable and and definitions are debatable only within established lexical rules.

    Otherwise we are not speaking the same language.


    What I have set forth are a few rules of formal debate that are universally accepted in formal debate.

    Since a forum is not formal debate there is no way of enforcing them here but we can each agree to impose them on ourselves.
    It's not my intention to attack. Some people just feel attacked when someone disagrees with them. It's hard to tell in text- when you can't see their facial expression, or hear their tone of voice. I'm a very soft-spoken and quiet person if you knew me personally. I am shy and not assertive in speaking up, except for in this format.

    Everything that I mention on here was once new to me too. My goal is truth, not pride. I hope everyone here knows that I care, and that that's why I'm here- to see to it that no one goes to hell just because I don't want to speak up. From there, they can make up their own minds.

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