Can your baby swim? Let's find out!

[Innerfire89]

Why baptize infants? Well, why not?
We start by looking at the old covenant and circumcision, by circumcision the Jews included their children into the old covenant, now we have an inward circumcision marked by baptism. ( Col. 2:11-12)
What changed between these covenants? We see that women and gentiles can now have a mark of being part of the new covenant, but what we don't see is infants being excluded. If infants we're excluded, converting Jews would definitely need to be told and we would see that in Scripture.

What is required to be baptized? Faith in adults, for the infant it is faithful parents dedicated to raising their child to love and obey Christ as they do. (Acts 2:38-39, Acts 8:36-39)

Now, I'm not trying to start trouble with my Baptist brothers and sisters, I just hope to make a plea for respect of this practice.

Stay strong in Christ and be blessed.

 

[Miri]

If people want to dedicate/baptise children, that's fine as long as they don't
go telling the child they are saved because they were baptised as a child.

Thats the danger and that's what many believe. I know people
who are definately not born again by any stretch of the imagination.
But they think they are all because of the above.

I do actually like the idea of dedicating a child and offering them back to
God, believing that God will do a work of salvation in their lives. But each person
has to make that decision for themselves too.

 

[Miri]

Ps I didn't learn how to swim until my 20s, I took myself
off to adult swimming lessons and had to wear those bright orange
inflatable arm bands!

Even as adults we have to learn how to swim.

 

[Innerfire89]

If people want to dedicate/baptise children, that's fine as long as they don't
go telling the child they are saved because they were baptised as a child.

Thats the danger and that's what many believe. I know people
who are definately not born again by any stretch of the imagination.
But they think they are all because of the above.

I do actually like the idea of dedicating a child and offering them back to
God, believing that God will do a work of salvation in their lives. But each person
has to make that decision for themselves too.

I agree 100%.
Infant baptism is simply the new covenant circumcision, an outward sign of the inward work of Christ that we have faith and hope will happen within our children. But it does not save them, they must confirm that Christ is their Lord and that their baptism points to their identity in Christ.

I wish churches and families were more involved with each others nowadays, maybe go back to teaching children the shorter cathacisims.

 

[Miri]

We have a fantastic children's work at my church.

A mums a toddler group open to anyone during the week, they have songs, stories play time
all Christian etc but we often get Muslim and non Christian parents attending. It is one
of the few 5 star review toddler groups across the city, and appraised by OFSTEAD as
outstanding - they are an official body who appraise schools and early learning centres.


We also have a large Sunday school of 200 plus children in their different age groups.
Plus a teen Sunday service whereup to 300 teens meet each Sunday.

We have the dediction services for babies/toddlers

 

[OneFaith]

Why baptize infants? Well, why not?
We start by looking at the old covenant and circumcision, by circumcision the Jews included their children into the old covenant, now we have an inward circumcision marked by baptism. ( Col. 2:11-12)
What changed between these covenants? We see that women and gentiles can now have a mark of being part of the new covenant, but what we don't see is infants being excluded. If infants we're excluded, converting Jews would definitely need to be told and we would see that in Scripture.

What is required to be baptized? Faith in adults, for the infant it is faithful parents dedicated to raising their child to love and obey Christ as they do. (Acts 2:38-39, Acts 8:36-39)

Now, I'm not trying to start trouble with my Baptist brothers and sisters, I just hope to make a plea for respect of this practice.

Stay strong in Christ and be blessed.

Baptism is a decision, a lifetime commitment. Babies can't do that, that's why babies don't get married, or baptized, or choose a 401k. Baptism without belief is just getting wet. Babies don't know what it means, or understand what you are doing- therefore it is not baptism. So what's the harm in it? When they become able to be baptized and hear that they were already baptized as a baby, they don't get baptized, and have a false sense of salvation (very dangerous).

Jesus did not get baptized to wash away His sins- He had none. He got baptized to show us what we must do. He didn't get baptized until about 30 years old- to show us only adults get baptized.The bible said men and women were baptized- not children. Jesus said not to add to the Word, nor take anything away from it. Putting something in there that is not in there, like infant baptism, makes God angry, it is not a little thing, it is huge, wrong, evil, against God.

 

[hornetguy]

There is no scriptural evidence that Jesus or the apostles ever suggested infant baptism. That concept negates the voluntary decision made by a believer.

How about going ahead and being baptized for someone who died without accepting Christ?

Is that person waiting in "limbo" for enough good people here on earth to pray/baptize them into salvation?

 

[preacher4truth]

Being Reformed Baptist we don't waterboard babies and instead practice believer's baptism. There is no presumed regeneration belief here.

As far as the other issue brought up, teaching our own children? This is a huge issue, somehow too many parents have gotten the idea that is the duty of the church, and that they turn their children over to the church as if it is its sole responsibility, and then as teens hand them over to a "youth pastor."

Pray, read books, read Scripture with your children consistently. Fathers are to nurture the children here; Ephesians 6:4: this Biblical responsibility and duty is not to be handed off to the wife to be the spiritual leader of the children, nor is it to be handed off to a church. We need more father's to step up to the plate and lead their families.

Also, there is a need for a confession of faith (CoF) in order to draw the teachings of Scripture into something that can be studied, shared and state beliefs over several issues briefly.

Before anyone flips out with their "All I need is the Bible, I don't believe in CoF's, you're placing a CoF above the Bible!!" nonsense? I have not witnessed any church that does not employ some sort of statement of faith (SoF) that members agree to by joining. It is no different than a CoF such as the LBCoF in its usage, although the latter is generally much more exhaustive, Biblical, and in-depth.

A departure from these SoF's/CoF's have been to the demise and has helped facilitate the inept doctrine found in too many churches where many run amok with aberrant and erroneous doctrines.

 

[MarcR]

Why baptize infants? Well, why not?
We start by looking at the old covenant and circumcision, by circumcision the Jews included their children into the old covenant, now we have an inward circumcision marked by baptism. ( Col. 2:11-12)
What changed between these covenants? We see that women and gentiles can now have a mark of being part of the new covenant, but what we don't see is infants being excluded. If infants we're excluded, converting Jews would definitely need to be told and we would see that in Scripture.

What is required to be baptized? Faith in adults, for the infant it is faithful parents dedicated to raising their child to love and obey Christ as they do. (Acts 2:38-39, Acts 8:36-39)

Now, I'm not trying to start trouble with my Baptist brothers and sisters, I just hope to make a plea for respect of this practice.

Stay strong in Christ and be blessed.

In Mat 28:19-20 Jesus tells us first make believers then baptize them

Numerous Scriptures invite unbelievers to Believe and be baptized.

Many believe that baptism is part of the Salvation process. I believe that it is NOT.

I believe that baptism is a first step of obedience after Salvation. It is or ought to be a public testimony of Jesus' Lordship.

 

[tourist]

Ps I didn't learn how to swim until my 20s, I took myself
off to adult swimming lessons and had to wear those bright orange
inflatable arm bands!

Even as adults we have to learn how to swim.

This is true. You either learn how to swim to stay afloat or sink and drown.

 

[Depleted]

Baptism is a decision, a lifetime commitment. Babies can't do that, that's why babies don't get married, or baptized, or choose a 401k. Baptism without belief is just getting wet. Babies don't know what it means, or understand what you are doing- therefore it is not baptism. So what's the harm in it? When they become able to be baptized and hear that they were already baptized as a baby, they don't get baptized, and have a false sense of salvation (very dangerous).

Jesus did not get baptized to wash away His sins- He had none. He got baptized to show us what we must do. He didn't get baptized until about 30 years old- to show us only adults get baptized.The bible said men and women were baptized- not children. Jesus said not to add to the Word, nor take anything away from it. Putting something in there that is not in there, like infant baptism, makes God angry, it is not a little thing, it is huge, wrong, evil, against God.

Whew!

I feel much better now. I was baptized as an infant. So there was my "huge, wrong, evil, against God." To think, I was doomed then! It was never the sins required to disobey all ten of the Commandments. That's nothing compared to being baptized! Whew! A load off my head!

Good thing we have you to tell us what the Bible teaches.



Personally, I tend to think baptism is something you do after saved, but I also think parents baptized for the same reason parents used to circumcise their babies -- they were making God a promise to raise that child in him. It was, as it still is, an outward sign of an inward work.

I was also baptized when I became a believer as the same sign of that same promise. "I will follow you, Lord."

 

[Zmouth]

Good thing we have you to tell us what the Bible teaches.

LOL, someone had to teach you how to read that book and yet you need a book to teach about a living God.

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men
Isa 29:11-13

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why baptize infants? Well, why not?

The short answer is "Because that is not what the Bible teaches". Water baptism by immersion is only for those who have responded to the Gospel through repentance and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Mt 28:18-20; Mk 16:15,16). Which means that they must be capable of seeing themselves as sinners and Christ as their Savior and Lord. And sinners must repent and be converted.

As to circumcision, it was meant to symbolize repentance, conversion and faith, so one again it cannot be applied to babies.

And he [Abraham] received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also (Rom 4:11).

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Rom 2:29).

 

[Prov910]

The short answer is "Because that is not what the Bible teaches". Water baptism by immersion is only for those who have responded to the Gospel through repentance and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Mt 28:18-20; Mk 16:15,16). Which means that they must be capable of seeing themselves as sinners and Christ as their Savior and Lord. And sinners must repent and be converted.

I don't think the OP is advocating baptism by immersion for infants. (Does any church do that?) Infant baptism (sprinkling) is more of a dedication ceremony signifying that the parents intend to raise the child as a Christian--as stated in the OP. Later, when the child is old enough to understand the gospel and repents, the child (or adult if enough time has passed) is baptized. At least this is the way it works in the various churches I've attended. A child baptism ceremony does not preclude a later repentance and baptism. It surprises me that anyone on this board would not realize this.

As for what the bible does, or does not teach, I'd point out that there are some practices that Christians do today that are widely accepted even though they aren't discussed in the bible. Does the bible discuss Sunday school classes for children? Does the bible mention pipe organ music? What does the bible say about women in the clergy? Are you opposed to these things too? (That last one was a rhetorical question.)

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't think the OP is advocating baptism by immersion for infants. (Does any church do that?)

Exactly. and that was my point in including the word "immersion". Since immersion (symbolic death, burial, and resurrection) is the biblical mode and infants cannot be subjected to it, that is another nail in the coffin of infant baptism.

Infant baptism (sprinkling) is more of a dedication ceremony signifying that the parents intend to raise the child as a Christian--as stated in the OP. Later, when the child is old enough to understand the gospel and repents, the child (or adult if enough time has passed) is baptized. At least this is the way it works in the various churches I've attended.

That may be true in some churches, but according to Roman Catholic theology, infant baptism is for the regeneration of infants, hence the term baptismal regeneration. And if it is merely for "dedication" then that is not authorized by Scripture either.

A child baptism ceremony does not preclude a later repentance and baptism. It surprises me that anyone on this board would not realize this.

The fact is that many who were baptized as babies sincerely believe that they are saved, although they have not experienced the New Birth. And the reason that they have this false idea is because they were baptized as babies. As you can see, it does more harm than good. And there are also evangelical churches in which babies are dedicate, but through prayer, not infant baptism.

 

[Innerfire89]

Baptism is a decision, a lifetime commitment. Babies can't do that, that's why babies don't get married, or baptized, or choose a 401k. Baptism without belief is just getting wet. Babies don't know what it means, or understand what you are doing- therefore it is not baptism. So what's the harm in it? When they become able to be baptized and hear that they were already baptized as a baby, they don't get baptized, and have a false sense of salvation (very dangerous).

Jesus did not get baptized to wash away His sins- He had none. He got baptized to show us what we must do. He didn't get baptized until about 30 years old- to show us only adults get baptized.The bible said men and women were baptized- not children. Jesus said not to add to the Word, nor take anything away from it. Putting something in there that is not in there, like infant baptism, makes God angry, it is not a little thing, it is huge, wrong, evil, against God.

They can be re-baptized if they feel the need or they can simply accept thier baptism as an infant as valid.
They shouldn't have a false senice of salvation if they are thought that they must have faith in what the baptizim symbolizes. Babies could not make the choice to be circumcised either.

I don't add to Scripture, I'm taking note of what is not exulded in the new covenant.

 

[dcontroversal]

There is no scriptural evidence that Jesus or the apostles ever suggested infant baptism. That concept negates the voluntary decision made by a believer.

How about going ahead and being baptized for someone who died without accepting Christ?

Is that person waiting in "limbo" for enough good people here on earth to pray/baptize them into salvation?

AMEN...Jesus was around 30 when he was immersed....I would like to see two examples in the N.T. were children were immersed.....as a matter of fact.....it seems fairly clear that they were all adults with the possible exception of a few households where no evidence that children were within the households that were immersed....

 

[Innerfire89]

There is no scriptural evidence that Jesus or the apostles ever suggested infant baptism. That concept negates the voluntary decision made by a believer.

How about going ahead and being baptized for someone who died without accepting Christ?

Is that person waiting in "limbo" for enough good people here on earth to pray/baptize them into salvation?

Scripture already covers baptism of the dead or proxy baptism. Of course it is pointless to baptize the dead, it's too late to do anything.
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For this promise is unto you, and your children, and to all that are far off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Innerfire89]

Being Reformed Baptist we don't waterboard babies and instead practice believer's baptism. There is no presumed regeneration belief here.

As far as the other issue brought up, teaching our own children? This is a huge issue, somehow too many parents have gotten the idea that is the duty of the church, and that they turn their children over to the church as if it is its sole responsibility, and then as teens hand them over to a "youth pastor."

Pray, read books, read Scripture with your children consistently. Fathers are to nurture the children here; Ephesians 6:4: this Biblical responsibility and duty is not to be handed off to the wife to be the spiritual leader of the children, nor is it to be handed off to a church. We need more father's to step up to the plate and lead their families.

Also, there is a need for a confession of faith (CoF) in order to draw the teachings of Scripture into something that can be studied, shared and state beliefs over several issues briefly.

Before anyone flips out with their "All I need is the Bible, I don't believe in CoF's, you're placing a CoF above the Bible!!" nonsense? I have not witnessed any church that does not employ some sort of statement of faith (SoF) that members agree to by joining. It is no different than a CoF such as the LBCoF in its usage, although the latter is generally much more exhaustive, Biblical, and in-depth.

A departure from these SoF's/CoF's have been to the demise and has helped facilitate the inept doctrine found in too many churches where many run amok with aberrant and erroneous doctrines.

The topic heading was just my strange sense of humour. I'm Presbyterian, we only sprinkle.

 

[preacher4truth]

The topic heading was just my strange sense of humour. I'm Presbyterian, we only sprinkle.

Um, I think I caught that.

You all sprinkle, yes, fully aware, we have a son in the OPC. We call sprinkling infants waterboarding, but that's just my sense of humor.