Have We Been Arrogant!?

[BenFTW]

Romans 9:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

In our complaints and sorrow when looking in the mirror, have we been arrogant to think to raise our voices to our Creator? I have been guilty of this, and how arrogant I was. I should be grateful when considering that I was chosen and called to be a child of God. How graceful and merciful is our God that He so destined us as vessels for His mercy as opposed to wrath.

Consider your place and position in Christ. Think of eternity, eternal life and what is to come? What momentary displeasure this life could offer fails in comparison of what is to come (the riches of His grace toward us).

Gratitude and reasonable service to the Lord ought to be our response. Our very existence, to Him be the glory. That I can smile, feel joy, live and breath it is only out of His generosity. Let us count our blessings. Let us raise our voices in praise! For He is worthy.

 

[Prov910]

This reminds me of something I mentioned in my bible study group a couple weeks back. We kick off each week with a prayer for people who are sick or otherwise facing the struggles of life. For example, we prayed last week for a young mother dying of cancer. I can't for the life of me figure out why she *shouldn't* be cured. BUT I am not omniscient. If she ends up dying, maybe there is some reason for it that I'm unaware of. Maybe she would have died ten years ago but for God's intervention at that time to give her an additional decade of life. Or maybe her illness and death will serve to quicken the faith of her family and friends. Or some other reason I can't even conceive of.

Anyway, the point I made was that when we ask for something in prayer, we should ask like Jesus did in the Garden of Gethsemane. We should acknowledge God's sovereignty and pray that "Your will be done."

“Abba, Father,”[a] he cried out, “everything is possible for you. Please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine.” Mark 14:36

 

[tourist]

This reminds me of something I mentioned in my bible study group a couple weeks back. We kick off each week with a prayer for people who are sick or otherwise facing the struggles of life. For example, we prayed last week for a young mother dying of cancer. I can't for the life of me figure out why she *shouldn't* be cured. BUT I am not omniscient. If she ends up dying, maybe there is some reason for it that I'm unaware of. Maybe she would have died ten years ago but for God's intervention at that time to give her an additional decade of life. Or maybe her illness and death will serve to quicken the faith of her family and friends. Or some other reason I can't even conceive of.

Anyway, the point I made was that when we ask for something in prayer, we should ask like Jesus did in the Garden of Gethsemane. We should acknowledge God's sovereignty and pray that "Your will be done."

“Abba, Father,”[a] he cried out, “everything is possible for you. Please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine.” Mark 14:36

I'm starting to pray this way also for God's will to be done and not mine. God hears and answers all prayer but perhaps not always in a way that is immediately understood but in time His purpose to your answered prayer will ultimately be understood.

 

[mar09]

Sure, i have been, ben. For many months, the Lord led me to Scripture on pride and arrogance where i lingered. I wonder any would say it is easy to deal with these very personal/private experiences. When i seeked for threads on this, there were a few but they did not last long, as far as i can remember. We may think we are humble, but unless the Lord sees that in our hearts, we cannot be used as a clean vessel. Those who have gone thru really deep pit and wilderness experiences will tell we can definitely see the difference in the love joy peace... we go thru, and how differently we can minister after the sin of arrogance is surrendered, lifted and gone.

The book of Proverbs has many verses on this and i share:

Prov. 8.13 To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.
Prov. 13.10 Where there is strife, there is pride, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.
Prov. 16.19 Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud.
Prov. 21.4 Haughty eyes and a proud heart— the unplowed field of the wicked—produce sin.
Prov. 21.24 The proud and arrogant person—“Mocker” is his name— behaves with insolent fury.
Prov. 26.12 Do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for them.

 

[Blain]

Well I like to be honest with him even in my anger I never go so dark as to blasphemy or anything but honestly if I have a complaint I don't just pretend that he can't read my heart. I am not saying to let all hell loose on him or anything but he also is patient with his children and I think he appreciates us being honest with without fear of judgment rather than try to pretend we don't think or feel a certain way, he already knows because he reads our hearts everyday so it's the exact same as if we were to say it to him the only difference is that when we as his children can come before him in earnest and honesty I think that means a lot to him.

In our hurt, in our weakness, in our sorrow and in our own view of ourselves we will at times complain to him and we may even raise our fists to the skies at times but that is not what the arrogant does. The arrogant refuse to admit their own weakness and pride they assume they know better all the time not just in times of weakness the arrogant will constantly puff their chests and live in a state of rebellion they cannot be taught and cannot learn from their weakness or mistakes yet they see themselves fit to be the ones who teach point out and condemn others for it.

Believe me there is a difference between being honest with him and being arrogant that is why I loved David so much he was always honest with God even in his anger and God loved David dearly

 

[preacher4truth]

Romans 9:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I have been guilty of this, and how arrogant I was. I should be grateful when considering that I was chosen and called to be a child of God. How graceful and merciful is our God that He so destined us as vessels for His mercy as opposed to wrath.

Wait, what?

You've formerly rejected election and have attacked "calvinism" and now you're embracing election?

So, you're just trying to make a nice sounding pithy OP, or, are you genuinely recanting your prior absurdity while embracing the doctrines you'd formerly blasphemed?

 

[Blain]

Wait, what?

You've formerly rejected election and have attacked "calvinism" and now you're embracing election?

So, you're just trying to make a nice sounding pithy OP, or, are you genuinely recanting your prior absurdity while embracing the doctrines you'd formerly blasphemed?

Apparently you don't seem to understand his words at all and have allowed your own issues with him to cloud your understanding. Did you not know that many are called but few are chosen? those who accept fathers call become his chosen and his elect he even calls the most evil of people to be his chosen. To be chosen is to accept God into our hearts and this is what Ben was talking about

 

[BenFTW]

Wait, what?

You've formerly rejected election and have attacked "calvinism" and now you're embracing election?

So, you're just trying to make a nice sounding pithy OP, or, are you genuinely recanting your prior absurdity while embracing the doctrines you'd formerly blasphemed?

Just reading my bible.

 

[preacher4truth]

Apparently you don't seem to understand his words at all and have allowed your own issues with him to cloud your understanding.

I've understood him clearly, son. I've no issues with him, just pointing out his past aberrations and attacks on biblical election, and on those who hold to it. You don't know what you're talking about.

Did you not know that many are called but few are chosen?

Yes, I probably knew this.

those who accept fathers call become his chosen and his elect

Sorry, but you're wrong as per usual. Those in such a case were already chosen, they didn't "become his chosen" by somethign they did. You should probably stick to your private revelations and dreams instead of taking a stab at biblical doctrine.

he even calls the most evil of people to be his chosen.

That would be me.

To be chosen is to accept God into our hearts and this is what Ben was talking about

To be chosen is to be so according to His purpose, not mans, but then again your views aren't exactly true nor biblical.

 

[preacher4truth]

Just reading my bible.

I'm glad for that my man!

 

[BenFTW]

Apparently you don't seem to understand his words at all and have allowed your own issues with him to cloud your understanding. Did you not know that many are called but few are chosen? those who accept fathers call become his chosen and his elect he even calls the most evil of people to be his chosen. To be chosen is to accept God into our hearts and this is what Ben was talking about

Lol, thanks for the assist Blain, but all is well. The Apostle Paul speaks of election in a clear way that actually makes one full of gratitude. Granted in our limited minds we may think how could God destine someone for wrath, and then lay judgement upon God, but as the apostle makes a valid point, who are we to question God? Likewise, what gratitude wells up in the heart that you, preacher, and I were destined to be vessels of His mercy? To think God in His sovereignty could've not created us, and yet He did. Think upon the joys of life and things in the Spirit, you could've not experienced those things had the Lord decided to not create you. Yet, what? He did.

In my reading of Romans 9, it allows us to clearly see where we may be arrogant and yet also in its reading is birthed gratefulness.

 

[Desertsrose]

Romans 9:20 King James Version (KJV)20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?In our complaints and sorrow when looking in the mirror, have we been arrogant to think to raise our voices to our Creator? I have been guilty of this, and how arrogant I was. I should be grateful when considering that I was chosen and called to be a child of God. How graceful and merciful is our God that He so destined us as vessels for His mercy as opposed to wrath. Consider your place and position in Christ. Think of eternity, eternal life and what is to come? What momentary displeasure this life could offer fails in comparison of what is to come (the riches of His grace toward us). Gratitude and reasonable service to the Lord ought to be our response. Our very existence, to Him be the glory. That I can smile, feel joy, live and breath it is only out of His generosity. Let us count our blessings. Let us raise our voices in praise! For He is worthy.

Hi Ben,

The complaints you speak of remind me of another scripture. I think if many of us were honest, we'd admit we've been guilty of grumbling and complaining. It is arrogance to grumble against a loving God Who give us all good things to enjoy. Instead of appreciating what we have, we are tempted to complain about what we don't have.


1 Corinthians 10:1-11


For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food; and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.


Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.


Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play.”


Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.


Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.


~~~~~~~~~~~


I think this is a very sober warning to us; may we heed it and truly repent and live in the joy and thankfulness of the Lord, praising our God and Savior Jesus Christ for all the good things He has blessed us with. Great OP!


Dear Lord,


Forgive me and all of us who have complained and grumbled against You, Lord. Help us to learn to be content and thankful for all things you've blessed us with. Help us to be like Paul who was content with little for much of his life.


Please help us return to our first love and serve you wholeheartedly with single vision and purpose, to get the gospel out so that others might come to know you and be saved as well and live eternally with you all the days of our lives. You have the words of eternal life. There is no one else but You whom we desire.


What glory awaits us Lord, to be with you forever is more than we can imagine. We love You and thank You for the air we breath, the food we eat, the clothes we wear and the roof over our head. Our husbands/wives families and friends and our brothers and sisters in the Lord. Please help us to be as generous to others as you have been to us. You abundantly bless; help us to abundantly bless others when it's in our power to do so.


“Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye Heavenly Host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Amen.”

 

[Blain]

Lol, thanks for the assist Blain, but all is well. The Apostle Paul speaks of election in a clear way that actually makes one full of gratitude. Granted in our limited minds we may think how could God destine someone for wrath, and then lay judgement upon God, but as the apostle makes a valid point, who are we to question God? Likewise, what gratitude wells up in the heart that you, preacher, and I were destined to be vessels of His mercy? To think God in His sovereignty could've not created us, and yet He did. Think upon the joys of life and things in the Spirit, you could've not experienced those things had the Lord decided to not create you. Yet, what? He did.

In my reading of Romans 9, it allows us to clearly see where we may be arrogant and yet also in its reading is birthed gratefulness.

I understand that the whole predestination thing is a major issue on both sides for those who believe it and those who don't But i still do not approve of his false accusations of you and even though I know you can hold your own just fine I can't simply sit back and not help. as far as your reply here I believe you are going through a season of understanding true gratefulness and learning to see things in a new light which is a very great thing to see the in process of others growing in Christ

 

[BenFTW]

I understand that the whole predestination thing is a major issue on both sides for those who believe it and those who don't But i still do not approve of his false accusations of you and even though I know you can hold your own just fine I can't simply sit back and not help. as far as your reply here I believe you are going through a season of understanding true gratefulness and learning to see things in a new light which is a very great thing to see the in process of others growing in Christ

I appreciate the back up! Sometimes you don't wish to fight the battle and the Lord sends someone to come to your defense.

 

[Blain]

I've understood him clearly, son. I've no issues with him, just pointing out his past aberrations and attacks on biblical election, and on those who hold to it. You don't know what you're talking about.



Yes, I probably knew this.



Sorry, but you're wrong as per usual. Those in such a case were already chosen, they didn't "become his chosen" by somethign they did. You should probably stick to your private revelations and dreams instead of taking a stab at biblical doctrine.



That would be me.



To be chosen is to be so according to His purpose, not mans, but then again your views aren't exactly true nor biblical.

You sure are fixated on my speaking of my dreams aren't you? if that is the only thing you can hold against me and claim that i rely on my dreams and not the bible and biblical doctrine then you are lacking a great amount of evidence to support your theory. You who are quick to attack others and to accuse assuming you know their hearts you who claims to have more understanding than I yet you lack the capabilities to see beyond your own views and understanding.

True enough I have much to learn and to grow as a Christian but before you go around making assumptions and thinking you understand me perhaps you should first get the opinions of others here in this forum and see if your evidence validates. I do think I speak to openly of my dreams and as such I have slowed down on speaking them but don't assume you know me

 

[Blain]

I appreciate the back up! Sometimes you don't wish to fight the battle and the Lord sends someone to come to your defense.

Have you ever seen Dragonheart? There is a part of the old code that a knight is sworn to live by and in this code I saw a part of God "A knight is sworn to valour,

His heart knows only virtue,

His blade defends the helpless,

His might upholds the weak,

His word speaks only truth,

This is the code that knight is to live by, it is the very reason for his seeking strength and it is what his blade is for. True enough I am not a knight and knights don't exist in this day and age but I can at least be a knight in my heart. So if i see someone in need of defending how could I wield my blade if I didn't go to their aid?

 

[tourist]

I've understood him clearly, son. I've no issues with him, just pointing out his past aberrations and attacks on biblical election, and on those who hold to it. You don't know what you're talking about.



Yes, I probably knew this.



Sorry, but you're wrong as per usual. Those in such a case were already chosen, they didn't "become his chosen" by somethign they did. You should probably stick to your private revelations and dreams instead of taking a stab at biblical doctrine.



That would be me.



To be chosen is to be so according to His purpose, not mans, but then again your views aren't exactly true nor biblical.

It's condescending to call another member 'son', and a highly respected member of this site for many years.

 

[Blain]

It's condescending to call another member 'son', and a highly respected member of this site for many years.

I appreciate the back up Jerry though I must admit I may have been a bit to crude in my response to him

 

[BenFTW]

Have you ever seen Dragonheart? There is a part of the old code that a knight is sworn to live by and in this code I saw a part of God "A knight is sworn to valour,

His heart knows only virtue,

His blade defends the helpless,

His might upholds the weak,

His word speaks only truth,

This is the code that knight is to live by, it is the very reason for his seeking strength and it is what his blade is for. True enough I am not a knight and knights don't exist in this day and age but I can at least be a knight in my heart. So if i see someone in need of defending how could I wield my blade if I didn't go to their aid?

Why can't you be a knight? You are a member of a kingdom, God's Kingdom! Fight the good fight, in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

[davida]

@Blain, I am sorry that gentlemen spoke to you so unkindly but I would not put much weight into the words of one who disparages the Bible (with regard to his comment abt the Torah/OT)