PERFECT IN GOD'S EYES

[joaniemarie]

This brings me right back to the OP of this thread. We are perfect in God's eyes. Hebrews 10:22-14 That is how we are seen. Yes., some don't agree but that does not determine the truth whether you agree or not. The Bible is clear in Hebrews "For by one offering HE HATH PERFECTED FOREVER them that are sanctified."

So if you disagree., it is not with me or the devotional writer. It's with that verse. You will have to explain this away using limited human reason. I'm not going to do that. Accepting the full salvation given means we are accepting we are totally accepted IN the Beloved. We have no spot or blemish. This gives Jesus the honor due Him for the perfect work He finished.

Our sins are purged perfectly... why? Because Jesus purged them. "My sins are washed away I know.... my sins are washed away I know... they are buried in the depths of the deepest sea... my sins are washed away I know."

Being convicted of our righteousness is the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit to us believers. He doesn't do this for the world., He does it only for those who are blood bought redeemed and perfected in Christ. We are the righteousness of God IN Christ. This is the truth of who we are. Yet many Christians don't yet know the truth and value of this fact of who they are.

Everything comes to us by grace alone. A life under grace is a blessed life, but a life under law is cursed (Gal 3:10).
A critic of this message said, “We must recover a love for the law if we are to be in harmony with him.”
No, a love for the law that manifests in a desire for command-keeping will alienate you from Christ. It will cause you to fall from grace and be lukewarm. Living by the rules won’t save you, sanctify you, or bless you. It will, however, empower sin against you (1 Cor 15:56).
It’s imperative you get this. Grace and law don’t mix. Either you believe Jesus is the culmination of the law or you don’t. Either you’ll trust in his finished work or you’ll bet on your never-finished-work.
In Christ we have kept and continue to keep the commands of God. This has nothing to do with a love for the law but the life of Christ flowing through us as we rest in him, free and unbothered by those who would enslave us again.

I am so thankful for teachers and preachers of the Word of God who point us to Jesus and not to our own righteousness and our own abilities to try to be righteous. Because ONLY Jesus can make a lost sinner a redeemed and righteous son or daughter of God.

 

[joaniemarie]

Frankly., I can't imagine how a Christian can have a joyful harmonious life if they reject the teaching of grace through faith in Christ's finished work. How can a human ever be consistent enough to stay a hold of their own righteousness?? It's impossible. Righteousness is not something we become through a process of our righteous works. No.

Righteousness is a gift ONLY Jesus has the authority to give us. We then learn how to WALK IN that righteousness. And that walking is a life long process while here on earth in these flesh bodies.

 

[joaniemarie]

Frankly., I can't imagine how a Christian can have a joyful harmonious life if they reject the teaching of grace through faith in Christ's finished work. How can a human ever be consistent enough to stay a hold of their own righteousness?? It's impossible. Righteousness is not something we become through a process of our righteous works. No way.

Righteousness is a gift ONLY Jesus has the authority to give us. We then learn how to WALK IN that righteousness. And that walking is a life long process while here on earth in these flesh bodies.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Frankly., I can't imagine how a Christian can have a joyful harmonious life if they reject the teaching of grace through faith in Christ's finished work. How can a human ever be consistent enough to stay a hold of their own righteousness?? It's impossible. Righteousness is not something we become through a process of our righteous works. No way.

Righteousness is a gift ONLY Jesus has the authority to give us. We then learn how to WALK IN that righteousness. And that walking is a life long process while here on earth in these flesh bodies.

It might be the church doctrine that they were brought up In that Influences them to think they should do their part to help GOD who had mercy on us and shed HIS blood satisfying the demands of the law by death on a cross on our behalf.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

In defense of 7 Seas:

I don't agree with everything she says; but her theological viewpoint is quite sound.

No matter how wonderfully a person in public ministry may be used by God, Nobody is beyond criticism because all of us are occasionally wrong about something.

My biggest disagreement with her is that she often speaks more sharply than is necessary to make her point. I think many of us start out there. Shooting down an idea gently is a learned art.

well thanks...pretty much knew this anyway but thanks for saying so

why don't you do a critique on the ones who call names and mock or accuse those they don't agree with of being banned?

seriously, Marc! some of my sharpness, comes from seeing the ruined lives of those who follow false teachers

well you call it sharp, not everyone thinks so. I actually think you could lay it on a little heavier LOL!

anyway...guess we'll both carry on. I'm alot younger than you are ... were you a little rougher around the edges when you were younger?

anyway, people know where they stand with me. never wishy washy...

ps, might have to use the bold above in my sig...well that and 'I am not the banned member you think I am...' (jking)

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Frankly., I can't imagine how a Christian can have a joyful harmonious life if they reject the teaching of grace through faith in Christ's finished work. How can a human ever be consistent enough to stay a hold of their own righteousness?? It's impossible. Righteousness is not something we become through a process of our righteous works. No way.

Righteousness is a gift ONLY Jesus has the authority to give us. We then learn how to WALK IN that righteousness. And that walking is a life long process while here on earth in these flesh bodies.

you know, seriously, it seems most of the points you make have to do with your interpreted observations on other Christians while reflecting on how wonderful,harmonious and better understanding of the grace of God your feelings are according to the gospel of Prince

maybe don't lay it on so thick. I kinda figure if someone is always talking about their perfect life, maybe it ain't so perfect

how about the scripture that tells us God chastises those He loves?

biblical grace is not saccharine sweet

the way you are posting, is actually a passive aggressive objection to those who call out Prince's FALSE grace

NO ONE says anything like what you are inferring. you try to make it seem that if one disagrees with Princes' false teaching, then we must live dour and unsatisfied lives

nothing could be farther from the truth

and ANY Christian that tries to state there are never any bumps in their walk are either lying or the devil does not see them as a threat

I'm not sure you are saying that, but while the rest of us critique Prince, YOU seem to constantly critique in a personal manner while crying that people are doing that to you

and then you bemoan how people cannot get along. duh

passive aggressive

 

[garee]

You are citing an excellent source in these posts. The only problem with this one is that it invites misunderstanding.

I'm sure Pastor Prince is not preaching the heresy of sinless perfection but this could be mistaken for it; if one didn't know better.

Ro 8:1-3.

The word perfect simply means complete. In that way He who began the good work of faith in us (not of us) will finish working in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure.(imputed righteousness) .No separation between faith ,the planning, and the work, executing the plan.


Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[7seasrekeyed]

God has wonderfully answered my prayers on MANY occasions. He has supplied ALL my needs, a good many wants and desires along the way also.

I have a husband who is very supportive of me, has alot of patience (oh I know some of you are going..'well he needs to, to be married to you') he is faithful and kind and just as imperfect as the rest of us. haha He is a graduate of a Christian university and we agree on the doctrines of our faith, but not on every single thing but we don't argue ..we discuss. and he is also a good provider we do compliment each other in many areas as well.

I have seen some truly miraculous things in my life, while I might call them a little short of a miracle, they are the sovereign working of God in my life.

I have had the honor to serve God in teaching, worship, counselling and have taught Sunday School and a number of other things through the years.

I do not have a faulty understanding of grace, obedience or works and have seen how these things work, both practically and sovereignly in my life and in the lives of others.

I could list details and bore some of you to death but others would know exactly what I am talking about. This is the outworking of SALVATION in my life. Jesus has saved me, He is saving me and He will save me.

I understand completely and fully that God is my righteousness and He is also my Shield and my Buckler and my Fortress in times of trouble.

and I am pretty much up to here of others trying to say that grace is cloud 9 and we never have to worry about obedience again.

get real

 

[Rosemaryx]

God has wonderfully answered my prayers on MANY occasions. He has supplied ALL my needs, a good many wants and desires along the way also.

I have a husband who is very supportive of me, has alot of patience (oh I know some of you are going..'well he needs to, to be married to you') he is faithful and kind and just as imperfect as the rest of us. haha He is a graduate of a Christian university and we agree on the doctrines of our faith, but not on every single thing but we don't argue ..we discuss. and he is also a good provider we do compliment each other in many areas as well.

I have seen some truly miraculous things in my life, while I might call them a little short of a miracle, they are the sovereign working of God in my life.

I have had the honor to serve God in teaching, worship, counselling and have taught Sunday School and a number of other things through the years.

I do not have a faulty understanding of grace, obedience or works and have seen how these things work, both practically and sovereignly in my life and in the lives of others.

I could list details and bore some of you to death but others would know exactly what I am talking about. This is the outworking of SALVATION in my life. Jesus has saved me, He is saving me and He will save me.

I understand completely and fully that God is my righteousness and He is also my Shield and my Buckler and my Fortress in times of trouble.

and I am pretty much up to here of others trying to say that grace is cloud 9 and we never have to worry about obedience again.

get real

Hi 7...Loved reading your post...xox...

 

[MarcR]

well thanks...pretty much knew this anyway but thanks for saying so

why don't you do a critique on the ones who call names and mock or accuse those they don't agree with of being banned?

seriously, Marc! some of my sharpness, comes from seeing the ruined lives of those who follow false teachers

well you call it sharp, not everyone thinks so. I actually think you could lay it on a little heavier LOL!

anyway...guess we'll both carry on. I'm alot younger than you are ... were you a little rougher around the edges when you were younger?

anyway, people know where they stand with me. never wishy washy...

ps, might have to use the bold above in my sig...well that and 'I am not the banned member you think I am...' (jking)

I don't critique the ones who get ugly because I don't see any point in it. They are to busy talking to hear anything but their own voice.

I believe you could be much more persuasive if you said the same things you are saying a little more gently. There would be far fewer people upset with you and you would have far more influence.

This is the principle I am trying to address but it goes far beyond what applies to you.

Jas 3:5-8
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
KJV

You are usually quite civil I just think a little effort on your part could make you far more effective.

 

[MarcR]

The word perfect simply means complete. In that way He who began the good work of faith in us (not of us) will finish working in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure.(imputed righteousness) .No separation between faith ,the planning, and the work, executing the plan.


Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

INDEED!!!!!!!

 

[MarcR]

I don't critique the ones who get ugly because I don't see any point in it. They are to busy talking to hear anything but their own voice.

I believe you could be much more persuasive if you said the same things you are saying a little more gently. There would be far fewer people upset with you and you would have far more influence.

This is the principle I am trying to address but it goes far beyond what applies to you.

Jas 3:5-8
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
KJV

You are usually quite civil I just think a little effort on your part could make you far more effective.

Also, I don't defend the name callers to people who are upset with them.

I seem to have gained considerable respect on the forum; and I was willing to put that on the line to defend you.

I could not do that without acknowledging that their irritation was somewhat justified.

 

[PeterJens]

I was thinking a little about some positions.

For those who feel they are still sinners, God sees the perfect Jesus and not them, so never
sees them as perfect, but failed sinners worthy of Hell.

This kind of analogy is wearing a target tee shirt underneath camoflage.

I would rather say God sees us as perfect, because He has chosen us, and washed clean, undefiled
believers are perfect in His sight.

 

[Speak2Me]

I've been a little late in part of this convo, but I will make my statement anyways. If someone is being mistreated simply because they disagree, everyone that considers themselves mature on both sides of the topic should take a stand together against those mistreaters for being so foul.
We are christians first and foremost, as well as being a genuine ambassador for Christ. When some decides to speak evil, it's our duty first to defend the offended member regardless of which side of the opinion they're on. We are also to go to the offending member to convince them of the error of their actions.
If we cannot be righteous in our actions, then it's no good what we believe, for we still dishonor the name of Jesus Christ by our lack of solidarity to those offended.
That's my 2 cents.

 

[joaniemarie]

It might be the church doctrine that they were brought up In that Influences them to think they should do their part to help GOD who had mercy on us and shed HIS blood satisfying the demands of the law by death on a cross on our behalf.

Agreed. I certainly came from that back round and never had any kind of lasting peace or joy. Then I heard about how grace and truth carry into the believers life AFTER they got saved. Grace is not only for when we first get saved because we need it soooo desperately for forgiveness of all our sins to be saved and reconciled to God. It becomes a major part of how we walk the Christian life. We need (AND HAVE) unmerited unearned love and favor and forgiveness desperately NOW especially as believers. I was not taught that until late in life. As a born again believer I didn't know until later in life that there is NO condemnation anymore for us. I thought once you get saved.,,, you are now responsible to carry on a sinless life and have no excuse anymore.

We get what we do not deserve especially as believers. We have a heavenly Father now who is OUR Abba Father. We have an Advocate forever now who is Jesus and He lives after the power of an endless life so He makes intercession for us forever without any end and He promises to keep us.

We need to know that while in these bodies while walking here on earth., God is not counting our sins against us as we learn to put off the old manner of living. God no longer sees us after the flesh but He sees us in our spirit man IN Christ. Our job is to also see ourselves as God sees us.

Most Christians are like I was and are easy targets for the devil. he uses guilt and condemnation against human beings. Many people commit suicide because of the weight of what guilt and condemnation are to a human. Take a look at Judas for instance. All his ideas of right and wrong were totally misguided because he didn't listen to Jesus and believe Jesus. Judas was self righteous and very religious.

Judas then was left holding the bag (literally) and then lost all hope of any kind of reconciliation with God. He believed the lie of the devil and didn't believe Jesus blood covered his own sin so what did Judas do? He went and hung himself trying to atone for and escape his own sin., misery and shame and guilt.

But had he waited, Jesus would have paid for his sins too. Even Judas's sin could have been paid for had he gone to Jesus like Peter did. Peter denied Jesus 3 times with cursing and swearing and of course had regret and guilt and shame. But Peter believed Jesus and allowed Jesus to take his sins away. We can read later how Peter was not afraid to go see Jesus on the water. Peter knew he was forgiven., he didn't go and hide from Jesus and go hang himself in utter regret and un forgiveness. It's not recorded about the private meeting Peter had with Jesus when he asked forgiveness but we can see in the Bible the after effects of that forgiveness given and received. Peter had no fear of going to see Jesus. There is nothing so sweet as being forgiven.

 

[Desertsrose]

God has wonderfully answered my prayers on MANY occasions. He has supplied ALL my needs, a good many wants and desires along the way also.

I have a husband who is very supportive of me, has alot of patience (oh I know some of you are going..'well he needs to, to be married to you') he is faithful and kind and just as imperfect as the rest of us. haha He is a graduate of a Christian university and we agree on the doctrines of our faith, but not on every single thing but we don't argue ..we discuss. and he is also a good provider we do compliment each other in many areas as well.

I have seen some truly miraculous things in my life, while I might call them a little short of a miracle, they are the sovereign working of God in my life.

I have had the honor to serve God in teaching, worship, counselling and have taught Sunday School and a number of other things through the years.

I do not have a faulty understanding of grace, obedience or works and have seen how these things work, both practically and sovereignly in my life and in the lives of others.

I could list details and bore some of you to death but others would know exactly what I am talking about. This is the outworking of SALVATION in my life. Jesus has saved me, He is saving me and He will save me.

I understand completely and fully that God is my righteousness and He is also my Shield and my Buckler and my Fortress in times of trouble.

and I am pretty much up to here of others trying to say that grace is cloud 9 and we never have to worry about obedience again.

get real

Cracking up laughing!!! I can just here them also.

Loved your post.......thanks for sharing your heart, your life! So sweet - Hugs!

[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]​

 

[joaniemarie]

you know, seriously, it seems most of the points you make have to do with your interpreted observations on other Christians while reflecting on how wonderful,harmonious and better understanding of the grace of God your feelings are according to the gospel of Prince

maybe don't lay it on so thick. I kinda figure if someone is always talking about their perfect life, maybe it ain't so perfect

how about the scripture that tells us God chastises those He loves?

biblical grace is not saccharine sweet

the way you are posting, is actually a passive aggressive objection to those who call out Prince's FALSE grace

NO ONE says anything like what you are inferring. you try to make it seem that if one disagrees with Princes' false teaching, then we must live dour and unsatisfied lives

nothing could be farther from the truth

and ANY Christian that tries to state there are never any bumps in their walk are either lying or the devil does not see them as a threat

I'm not sure you are saying that, but while the rest of us critique Prince, YOU seem to constantly critique in a personal manner while crying that people are doing that to you

and then you bemoan how people cannot get along. duh

passive aggressive

Well 7seas, what "seems" to be real to you about me is way off as usual. This post here for instance. You describe my understanding of grace and faith. How can you do that? Your description is so void of the reality. How can you know my heart just from my coming to CC and posting here? You can't., and to say you do is very immature.

If I sound to you to be just toooooo joyful and happy all the time so that you can't possibly believe I'm for real.... well., is that my problem? No., it's really not my problem. The problem is yours alone no matter how hard you try to make it my problem., I'm not going to take that upon myself.

And as I've suggested to you before., since my posts vex you that much., you can easily avoid them by placing me on ignore. I heartily suggest you do so at your earliest convenience.

 

[Nehemiah6]

He [Judas] believed the lie of the devil and didn't believe Jesus blood covered his own sin so what did Judas do? He went and hung himself trying to atone for and escape his own sin., misery and shame and guilt...But had he waited, Jesus would have paid for his sins too. Even Judas's sin could have been paid for had he gone to Jesus like Peter did.

joaniemarie,

From where did you come up with scenario, and trying to imagine what went through the mind of Judas? According to Scripture:

1. Did Christ pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world? Absolutely

2. Were all evildoers included in the whole world? Absolutely

3. Therefore were the sins of Judas included in those sins of the whole world? Absolutely.

4. Was Judas trying to atone for his own sins? Absolutely not.

The shed blood of Christ does NOT "cover" sins. It WASHES AWAY sins. But only for those sinners who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption. The blood of bulls and goats "covered"sins for a season, and had to be shed over and over again. But Christ made one sacrifice for sins for ever, and the sins of Judas were paid for. But that would not avail Judas, since he failed to turn to Christ for forgiveness with a truly repentant heart.

 

[joaniemarie]

joaniemarie,

From where did you come up with scenario, and trying to imagine what went through the mind of Judas? According to Scripture:

1. Did Christ pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world? Absolutely

2. Were all evildoers included in the whole world? Absolutely

3. Therefore were the sins of Judas included in those sins of the whole world? Absolutely.

4. Was Judas trying to atone for his own sins? Absolutely not.

The shed blood of Christ does NOT "cover" sins. It WASHES AWAY sins. But only for those sinners who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption. The blood of bulls and goats "covered"sins for a season, and had to be shed over and over again. But Christ made one sacrifice for sins for ever, and the sins of Judas were paid for. But that would not avail Judas, since he failed to turn to Christ for forgiveness with a truly repentant heart.

​Nehemiah., please read my post again and see what I wrote and not what you think I wrote. I said -had Judas gone to Jesus the way Peter did....he too would have been forgiven. Here.... I'll post it again for you...

 

[joaniemarie]

Agreed. I certainly came from that back round and never had any kind of lasting peace or joy. Then I heard about how grace and truth carry into the believers life AFTER they got saved. Grace is not only for when we first get saved because we need it soooo desperately for forgiveness of all our sins to be saved and reconciled to God. It becomes a major part of how we walk the Christian life. We need (AND HAVE) unmerited unearned love and favor and forgiveness desperately NOW especially as believers. I was not taught that until late in life. As a born again believer I didn't know until later in life that there is NO condemnation anymore for us. I thought once you get saved.,,, you are now responsible to carry on a sinless life and have no excuse anymore.

We get what we do not deserve especially as believers. We have a heavenly Father now who is OUR Abba Father. We have an Advocate forever now who is Jesus and He lives after the power of an endless life so He makes intercession for us forever without any end and He promises to keep us.

We need to know that while in these bodies while walking here on earth., God is not counting our sins against us as we learn to put off the old manner of living. God no longer sees us after the flesh but He sees us in our spirit man IN Christ. Our job is to also see ourselves as God sees us.

Most Christians are like I was and are easy targets for the devil. he uses guilt and condemnation against human beings. Many people commit suicide because of the weight of what guilt and condemnation are to a human. Take a look at Judas for instance. All his ideas of right and wrong were totally misguided because he didn't listen to Jesus and believe Jesus. Judas was self righteous and very religious.

Judas then was left holding the bag (literally) and then lost all hope of any kind of reconciliation with God. He believed the lie of the devil and didn't believe Jesus blood covered his own sin so what did Judas do? He went and hung himself trying to atone for and escape his own sin., misery and shame and guilt.

But had he waited, Jesus would have paid for his sins too. Even Judas's sin could have been paid for had he gone to Jesus like Peter did. Peter denied Jesus 3 times with cursing and swearing and of course had regret and guilt and shame. But Peter believed Jesus and allowed Jesus to take his sins away. We can read later how Peter was not afraid to go see Jesus on the water. Peter knew he was forgiven., he didn't go and hide from Jesus and go hang himself in utter regret and un forgiveness. It's not recorded about the private meeting Peter had with Jesus when he asked forgiveness but we can see in the Bible the after effects of that forgiveness given and received. Peter had no fear of going to see Jesus. There is nothing so sweet as being forgiven.

Here you go Nehemiah this is just for you.