Jacob's trouble

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watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#1
Jer 30
7 Oh how terrible! That time will be worse than any like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be rescued from it.

Daniel 12:
1 “‘At that time, Michael will arise, the great prince who will stand up on behalf of your people, and a time of trouble will come like there has never been since nations began until that time. Also at that time, your people will be delivered—everyone who will have been written in the book.

Many believed that this time of trouble is the Great tribulation and many believed that the tribulation saints in Revelation are part of it!

but let us be truthful:
The verses showed Jacob's trouble meaning its the Jews or Israel....but they (israel will also be delivered.

In comparison to Rev 7
After these things, I looked, and there was a crowd so large that no one was able to count it! They were from every nation, tribe, people, and language. They were standing in front of the throne and the lamb and were wearing white robes, with palm branches in their hands.

10 They cried out in a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the lamb!”

11 All the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell on their faces in front of the throne and worshipped God,

12 saying, “Amen! Praise, glory, wisdom, thanks, honor, power, and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen!”

13 “Who are these people wearing white robes,” one of the elders asked me, “and where did they come from?”

14 I told him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me, “These are the people who are coming out of the terrible suffering. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb.

It is very clear they are from evry
nation/languages (Gentiles) they came from terrible siffering.

Now to summarize
Jacobs trouble is appointed to the Jews

tribulation saints are Gentiles.

Question;

Is Jacob trouble the same as the trouble of the saints in Rev 7? bases from above?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#2
Israel had more than one son.. A gentile could be of Jacob but not a Jew.. which I have yet to see how we can know who a Jewish person is and not just pretending..

Who and where are the imposters?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
1,548
113
#3
Jer 30
7 Oh how terrible! That time will be worse than any like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be rescued from it.

Daniel 12:
1 “‘At that time, Michael will arise, the great prince who will stand up on behalf of your people, and a time of trouble will come like there has never been since nations began until that time. Also at that time, your people will be delivered—everyone who will have been written in the book.

Many believed that this time of trouble is the Great tribulation and many believed that the tribulation saints in Revelation are part of it!

but let us be truthful:
The verses showed Jacob's trouble meaning its the Jews or Israel....but they (israel will also be delivered.

In comparison to Rev 7
After these things, I looked, and there was a crowd so large that no one was able to count it! They were from every nation, tribe, people, and language. They were standing in front of the throne and the lamb and were wearing white robes, with palm branches in their hands.

10 They cried out in a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the lamb!”

11 All the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell on their faces in front of the throne and worshipped God,

12 saying, “Amen! Praise, glory, wisdom, thanks, honor, power, and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen!”

13 “Who are these people wearing white robes,” one of the elders asked me, “and where did they come from?”

14 I told him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me, “These are the people who are coming out of the terrible suffering. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb.

It is very clear they are from evry
nation/languages (Gentiles) they came from terrible siffering.

Now to summarize
Jacobs trouble is appointed to the Jews

tribulation saints are Gentiles.

Question;

Is Jacob trouble the same as the trouble of the saints in Rev 7? bases from above?
Josephs children who were born while he was in Egypt (Ephraim and Manasseh) were adopted into Jacob(Israel) in Genesis 48:5-20 (northern tribes)...
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#4
it is very clear from the verse that they were not talking of spiritual Jew but people of Israel. plus there is Michael (angel for Israel) hope some pre trib will give their views
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#5
it is very clear from the verse that they were not talking of spiritual Jew but people of Israel. plus there is Michael (angel for Israel) hope some pre trib will give their views
Who are the people of Israel?

All condemned and the promise comes to us by GOD through His Son.

Read about the priest Melchizedek... consider...
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#6
Who are the people of Israel?

All condemned and the promise comes to us by GOD through His Son.

Read about the priest Melchizedek... consider...
who are the people of Israel?
Generally the have the 12 tribes....but we can say Bad and Good Jews....are the people of Israel.
 

davida

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2017
115
1
0
#7
Rev 4 clearly shows the Church with Christ in the throne room with " the Land slain before the foundation of the world" dressed in fine white raiment and crowns of gold"
 

davida

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2017
115
1
0
#8
Question: who casts thier crowns to Jesus in verse 10 ? If not the Church?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#9
who are the people of Israel?
Generally the have the 12 tribes....but we can say Bad and Good Jews....are the people of Israel.
All condemned in unbelief... not sure how you distinguish.. but GOD distinguishes by Belief in His Son.
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#10
All condemned in unbelief... not sure how you distinguish.. but GOD distinguishes by Belief in His Son.
Sorta,but there is a second dynamic. A legal one of covenant.

God is not done with them.

I believe Romans 6,7,&8 address the "Israel is done" error
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#11
Jer 30
7 Oh how terrible! That time will be worse than any like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be rescued from it.

Daniel 12:
1 “‘At that time, Michael will arise, the great prince who will stand up on behalf of your people, and a time of trouble will come like there has never been since nations began until that time. Also at that time, your people will be delivered—everyone who will have been written in the book.

Many believed that this time of trouble is the Great tribulation and many believed that the tribulation saints in Revelation are part of it!

but let us be truthful:
The verses showed Jacob's trouble meaning its the Jews or Israel....but they (israel will also be delivered.

In comparison to Rev 7
After these things, I looked, and there was a crowd so large that no one was able to count it! They were from every nation, tribe, people, and language. They were standing in front of the throne and the lamb and were wearing white robes, with palm branches in their hands.

10 They cried out in a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the lamb!”

11 All the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell on their faces in front of the throne and worshipped God,

12 saying, “Amen! Praise, glory, wisdom, thanks, honor, power, and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen!”

13 “Who are these people wearing white robes,” one of the elders asked me, “and where did they come from?”

14 I told him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me, “These are the people who are coming out of the terrible suffering. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb.

It is very clear they are from evry
nation/languages (Gentiles) they came from terrible siffering.

Now to summarize
Jacobs trouble is appointed to the Jews

tribulation saints are Gentiles.

Question;

Is Jacob trouble the same as the trouble of the saints in Rev 7? bases from above?
The ones left behind are killed right away because the mark is the prelude to control. Those left behind either take it,or die.

Tribulation saints barely last a few months.

Ok,THAT ushers in JACOBS TROUBLE.
 
Last edited:

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#12
Many believed that this time of trouble is the Great tribulation and many believed that the tribulation saints in Revelation are part of it!
Daniel's 70th week (a future period of seven years) will consist of two periods of 3 1/2 years each. The first period will be the Tribulation (while the Antichrist has total control of the world through God's permission), and the second period is the Great Tribulation, which is triggered by the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation. So the first period is both the Tribulation (for unbelieving and ungodly Gentiles) and "the time of Jacob's trouble" (for unbelieving and ungodly Jews).
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#14
Daniel's 70th week (a future period of seven years) will consist of two periods of 3 1/2 years each. The first period will be the Tribulation (while the Antichrist has total control of the world through God's permission), and the second period is the Great Tribulation, which is triggered by the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation. So the first period is both the Tribulation (for unbelieving and ungodly Gentiles) and "the time of Jacob's trouble" (for unbelieving and ungodly Jews).
have you not got it backwards?
Joel 3 shows judgement of nations...after Israel has been scattered/land divided
even in Rev 6. the kings of nations hid themselves from the wrath...

so the tribulation of gentiles is after teibulation of israel
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#15
Sorta,but there is a second dynamic. A legal one of covenant.

God is not done with them.

I believe Romans 6,7,&8 address the "Israel is done" error

Please elaborate.. some time we are on the same page different verses..

What will happen is many will come to believe at a different time when the outcome reveals the Truth.

I don't buy in to seperate or replacement but I do believe there is a set time for each to believe.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#16
have you not got it backwards?
No
Joel 3 shows judgement of nations...
I did mention the Great Tribulation and that includes the judgment of the nations. There will be further judgment at the second coming of Christ.
after Israel has been scattered/land divided
At the second coming of Christ, the Jews are gathered to Israel, not Israel scattered and divided.
even in Rev 6. the kings of nations hid themselves from the wrath...
And this is immediately after the Great Tribulation. See the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24)
so the tribulation of gentiles is after teibulation of israel
Yes and No. The entire period of seven years is a period of tribulations.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
0
#17
i see we are in the 70th week of daniel again.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA whyyy. its fulfilled.
always the tribulation lasts for that 70th week....... and then u fit the entire book of revelation in there (where daniel's 70th week isnt mentioned btw).........
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#18
Please elaborate.. some time we are on the same page different verses..

What will happen is many will come to believe at a different time when the outcome reveals the Truth.

I don't buy in to seperate or replacement but I do believe there is a set time for each to believe.
He will bring them in through the messiah.

They are also waiting for messiah.
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#19
Remember,the 144 k are first fruits.

Firstfruit Jews.

Like Enoch,we don't know much about them.

But they "followed the lamb/were obedient to Jesus"
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#20
See the shift? The shift to the Jews during the GT.