Are there verse say salvation without obidience

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#1
I try to Find a verse in the bible specifically say salvation without obidience, or you do not need obedience for salvation any body can help me?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#2
You need the Holy Spirit and Jesus and God for salvation.



John 3:5-8 NLT
[5] Jesus replied, "I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without
being born of water and the Spirit. [6] Humans can reproduce only human life,
but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. [7] So don't be surprised when
I say, 'You must be born again.' [8] The wind blows wherever it wants. Just
as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is
going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#3
You need the Holy Spirit and Jesus and God for salvation.



John 3:5-8 NLT
[5] Jesus replied, "I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without
being born of water and the Spirit. [6] Humans can reproduce only human life,
but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. [7] So don't be surprised when
I say, 'You must be born again.' [8] The wind blows wherever it wants. Just
as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is
going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."
To me These verse command to be born again, need to obey this command for salvation. What I need to know is the verse that tell us, that you do not need obedience for salvation.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
337
83
#4
No, there's no verse that directly detaches obedience from salvation, although Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are saved by Grace through faith, and not by our own works. But its clear that our faith is substantiated by our works, its the evidence of what we believe. "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar" (1 John 2:4). Jesus said; "Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me" (John14:21). So faith confirmed by obedience, go hand in hand with salvation. "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21). "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him" (Titus 1:16). Faith without obedience equates to hypocrisy, believing one thing but doing another. Receiving God's grace requires faith, and faith without works (obedience to his word) is dead (James 2:26).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#5
No, there's no verse that directly detaches obedience from salvation, although Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are saved by Grace through faith, and not by our own works. But its clear that our faith is substantiated by our works, its the evidence of what we believe. "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar" (1 John 2:4). Jesus said; "Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me" (John14:21). So faith confirmed by obedience, go hand in hand with salvation. "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21). "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him" (Titus 1:16). Faith without obedience equates to hypocrisy, believing one thing but doing another. Receiving God's grace requires faith, and faith without works (obedience to his word) is dead (James 2:26).
Thanks Dan58, seem to me command to believe or command to love need obedience

in other word, to save we need to obey a command to believe in Jesus

or, If we believe in Jesus, mean we obey a command to believe.

mean No salvation without obedeance
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
#6
there is the man in corinthians who was given over to satan that his body may be destroyed and soul saved.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#7
there is the man in corinthians who was given over to satan that his body may be destroyed and soul saved.
Is that mean that man Will save without obedeance?

after his body broker If he still refuse to obey to believe Jesus, is he save?

after his body broker If he refuse to obey the command to love God and his fellow man, is he save?

refuse to love God or hate God is unsave.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
0
#8
Jackson123 i think samson was saved.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#9
after his body broker If he still refuse to obey to believe Jesus, is he save?

this is the verse:

hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

(1 Corinthians 5:5)​

it says '
destruction of the flesh' which appears to be to the point of physical death.

what kind of obedience are we talking about in the case of a man who is physically dead? i don't imagine it can be anything more than the obedience of belief in the death and resurrection of Christ, with power to atone for sin and to save, and there isn't any indication ((correct me if i'm wrong)) in the letter about this man that he does not believe in the Son of God except to the point that his actions on earth did not reflect obedience to the righteous way of living he ought to have been practicing.

so it brings up the question - if you believe in Christ while you are alive, can you stop believing in Him once you have died? can you love God while alive, and then change your mind and hate Him after you die?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#10
No, there's no verse that directly detaches obedience from salvation, although Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are saved by Grace through faith, and not by our own works.
what about 2 Timothy 2:13 -

if we are faithless, he remains faithful — for he cannot deny himself.

?

in the same passage Paul writes that if we deny Him, He will deny us. does this indicates that "
denying Him" and being "faithless" are different things, i.e. that denying Him refers to faith and belief, and being faithless refers to obedient works? if so, then it could be that here we see obedience and salvation separated.

& do we also see this in Romans 7-8, where Paul speaks of the dichotomy of the will of the flesh and of the mind that is in Christ?
the well known snippet, "
there is therefore no more condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus" is predicated on what is written directly before it, that within the believer the flesh follows one law, and the mind the other - and instead of arguing that salvation is in jeopardy because of unfaithfulness in obedient works in the flesh, it is argued that according to the heart and mind which is kept subject to the will of the Spirit, salvation is accomplished through Christ's work, through faith, and all condemnation is removed -- condemnation that would otherwise be righteously applied according to the works of the flesh, which always fall insufficient.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#11
Obedience is just a result of coming into a relationship with Jesus (salvation).

You are then inspired and helped by the Holy Spirit. But it is not to gain salvation. It is only to live out the expressions and life of Jesus in you. You obey to show your love.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#13

this is the verse:
hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

(1 Corinthians 5:5)​

it says '
destruction of the flesh' which appears to be to the point of physical death.

what kind of obedience are we talking about in the case of a man who is physically dead? i don't imagine it can be anything more than the obedience of belief in the death and resurrection of Christ, with power to atone for sin and to save, and there isn't any indication ((correct me if i'm wrong)) in the letter about this man that he does not believe in the Son of God except to the point that his actions on earth did not reflect obedience to the righteous way of living he ought to have been practicing.

so it brings up the question - if you believe in Christ while you are alive, can you stop believing in Him once you have died? can you love God while alive, and then change your mind and hate Him after you die?
to may knowledge, repent after death is to late. If we can repent after death, I believe resident in hell repent. The parable lazarus and the rich man tell that repent after death not bring you to heaven.

to me the destrction of flesh not always mean instant death, It may Slow death, so he can repent before death. My experience, when I sick or financially broke, I come to the Lord closer.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#14
Obedience is just a result of coming into a relationship with Jesus (salvation).

You are then inspired and helped by the Holy Spirit. But it is not to gain salvation. It is only to live out the expressions and life of Jesus in you. You obey to show your love.
Jesus Said come to me ye WHO heavy burdened.

it is a command, If you come, that mean you obey.

it is need obedeance to come isn't It?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#15
what about 2 Timothy 2:13 -

if we are faithless, he remains faithful — for he cannot deny himself.

?

in the same passage Paul writes that if we deny Him, He will deny us. does this indicates that "
denying Him" and being "faithless" are different things, i.e. that denying Him refers to faith and belief, and being faithless refers to obedient works? if so, then it could be that here we see obedience and salvation separated.

& do we also see this in Romans 7-8, where Paul speaks of the dichotomy of the will of the flesh and of the mind that is in Christ?
the well known snippet, "
there is therefore no more condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus" is predicated on what is written directly before it, that within the believer the flesh follows one law, and the mind the other - and instead of arguing that salvation is in jeopardy because of unfaithfulness in obedient works in the flesh, it is argued that according to the heart and mind which is kept subject to the will of the Spirit, salvation is accomplished through Christ's work, through faith, and all condemnation is removed -- condemnation that would otherwise be righteously applied according to the works of the flesh, which always fall insufficient.
Say husband (John) remain faithful to his wife ( deby), but the wife faithless and divorce her husband marriage other, is Deby still John wife? Even John faithful If Deby divorce him, Deby not his wife anymore.

Even Jesus faithful, If you No longer believe in him, you not His future wife anymore
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#16
I try to Find a verse in the bible specifically say salvation without obidience, or you do not need obedience for salvation any body can help me?

thjere is no such verse but on the other hand there is the opposite regarding obedience

matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

romans 2:5-11 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."

2 thessolonians 1:7-9 "..... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

1 peter 4:17-18 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

obedience should be a gratitude and a privilage that God would give us His ways

 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#17

thjere is no such verse but on the other hand there is the opposite regarding obedience

matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

romans 2:5-11 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."

2 thessolonians 1:7-9 "..... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

1 peter 4:17-18 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

obedience should be a gratitude and a privilage that God would give us His ways

thanks, Follow Jesus, obey to believe mean faith to Jesus. Not to late, If repent after death go to heaven, all hell resident do It and hell Will empty in a second.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#18
Jesus Said come to me ye WHO heavy burdened.

it is a command, If you come, that mean you obey.

it is need obedeance to come isn't It?
Jesus INVITES us to come to him. And when we do, it is the Holy Spirit who draws us.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#19
Jesus INVITES us to come to him. And when we do, it is the Holy Spirit who draws us.
Jesus anounce the map or guidance to heaven, It is believe in Him, obey mean follow the guidance


This is definition of obey by meriam webster




Definition of obey

obeyed; obeyingtransitive verb
1:to follow the commands or guidance of
  • He always obeys his parents.


2:to conform to or comply with
  • obey an order

  • Falling objects obey the laws of physics.



intransitive verb
:to behave obediently
  • The dog does not always obey.


 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#20
You need the Holy Spirit and Jesus and God for salvation.



John 3:5-8 NLT
[5] Jesus replied, "I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without
being born of water and the Spirit. [6] Humans can reproduce only human life,
but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. [7] So don't be surprised when
I say, 'You must be born again.' [8] The wind blows wherever it wants. Just
as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is
going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."

Being born again is obeying- thus if you must be born again to be saved, then you must obey to be saved.