Pentecostal/charismatic Discussion/light debate thread

[Waggles]

Currently my wife and I are looking for a church to go to because our church has gone liberal and searching for excitement.
It's getting near impossible to find a good church anywhere. Right now I'd be happy in a house church with a handful of people where God has full reign and His Spirit has liberty to minister to us and we the same to the Lord. I hope we both find what we're looking for.

Then pray in the Spirit (tongues) for the Lord himself to lead you to a church of his approval.
Worked for me.

 

[Speak2Me]

I believe in all of the gifts of the Spirit. The Bible speaks plainly that they are real, and I don't read anywhere where they are to cease.
Goodness, the way times are getting we need them more today than we've ever have.
How else are we the church gonna be ready for the coming of the Lord? I need all spiritual help I can get to be ready and help others to be ready when Jesus comes.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Nah. It's a WoF problem.

All WoFers are Pentecostal/Charismatic.
All Pentecostal/Charismatic are not WoFers.

'Tis true...I am a Charismatic but definitely not a proponent/advocate of the Word of Faith gibberish.

 

[Speak2Me]

Then pray in the Spirit (tongues) for the Lord himself to lead you to a church of his approval.
Worked for me.

I can only do so when the Holy Spirit gives utterence, and not till then. Besides, I prefer to pray in the Spirit with my understanding.(1 Corinthians 14:13 - 19)

 

[Lighthearted]

Gifts of the Spirit are NOT for every born again believer...nor will a born again believer receive all the gifts. This subject is so debatable among Christians because many do not understand the gifts...but that's okay. It's hard to know something is real when you don't understand it or haven't experienced it. You may have the gift of the spirit of faith and not realize it...

 

[Lighthearted]

I was saved and water baptized at 10 by my own choice. My family found a new church a few years later. First Assembly of God. That's where I witnessed tongues and began to ask questions and began to work on me and bless me. I began speaking in tongues at 14.

 

[graceNpeace]

'Tis true...I am a Charismatic but definitely not a proponent/advocate of the Word of Faith gibberish.

This is a very important distinction, neither Pentecostalism nor Charismatic beliefs are a synonym for WOF.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is a very important distinction, neither Pentecostalism nor Charismatic beliefs are a synonym for WOF.

One could say that the only thing common to both Pentecostalism and Charismatism is speaking in "tongues" (glossolalia, not glossais). But even the doctrine there would vary, since there are Charismatic Catholics and others who would have nothing else in common with Pentecostals. As to WOF, that would be and offshoot of either, since they also hold to some heretical teachings.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Gifts of the Spirit are NOT for every born again believer...nor will a born again believer receive all the gifts.

The first clause is incorrect, but the second is correct. Every born again believer will have at least one spiritual gift (whether they recognize it or not) (1 Cor 12-14), but all gifts are not for all, and that is one of the fallacies which is promoted by those who say that all should speak in tongues in order to demonstrate that they have received the baptism OF the Holy Spirit.

But all Christians are baptized WITH the Holy Ghost when they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and this has to do with regeneration, not spiritual gifts (Titus 3:4-7). (There is quite a bit of confusion about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit).

 

[trofimus]

I believe in all of the gifts of the Spirit. The Bible speaks plainly that they are real, and I don't read anywhere where they are to cease.

"As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease."
1 Cor 13:8

You can believe this or not, you can say it already happened or will happen yet, but there is where you can read about it.

 

[wattie]

Yip 1 Corinthians 13 definitely speaks of something mature and complete that swallows up and does away with prophecy tongues and the gift of knowledge.. it's just a matter of when this happened or happens. I believe the complete thing that completes the purpose for prophecy tongues and gift of knowledge has already come. Faith hope and love as the remaining gifts.

 

[Waggles]

A short personal testimony from a sister in the Lord,
[h=1]Athena Hains - Life changed dramatically by the power of God [/h]
a classical Pentecostal testimony on being converted by believing the gospel of salvation and
being born again by water and by the Holy Spirit.
Enjoy

[video]https://youtu.be/uvDqigJRRdw[/video]

 

[Waggles]

A short personal testimony from a sister in the Lord residing in Adelaide,
South Australia ...
enjoy

[h=1]Athena Hains - Life changed dramatically by the power of God[/h]

https://youtu.be/uvDqigJRRdw

 

[Waggles]

"As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease."
1 Cor 13:8
You can believe this or not, you can say it already happened or will happen yet, but there is where you can read about it.

Just hold on there!! How about some honesty when handling the Word of God.
You are being very disingenuous here.

8 Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues,
they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Corinthians 13:8-10

Knowledge is still with us today. Even though we look through a glass darkly and have limited
understanding of the magnitude of the spiritual realm and the third heaven.
Also a continuing gift in our Pentecostal fellowship
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Corinthians 12:8

Also Jesus declared the following:
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay
hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:
Nothing here about for a season, or for a time, or for the first generation of believers.

Do not be deceived by the work of the anti-Christ who opposes the original gospel of Pentecost with signs
following.
The fact that the scriptures are true today and people can be converted in the exact same
manner as people in the first century church upholds the validity of the latter rain.
The problem for you it would seem is to find a real Pentecostal church in America amongst all
the show biz money grubbing ministries that plague your nation.

I know of at least one.

 

[trofimus]

Just hold on there!! How about some honesty when handling the Word of God.
You are being very disingenuous here.

8 Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Corinthians 13:8-10

Knowledge is still with us today. Even though we look through a glass darkly and have limited understanding
of the magnitude of the spiritual realm and the third heaven.
Also a continuing gift in our Pentecostal fellowship
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Corinthians 12:8

Also Jesus declared the following:
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands
on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:
Nothing here about for a season, or for a time, or for the first generation of believers.

Do not be deceived by the work of the anti-Christ who opposes the original gospel of Pentecost with signs
following.

You can explain it as you wish, you just said you do not know where it is written.

BTW, its about gifts, so "knowledge" is one of the gifts talked before, like the gift of prophecy or tongues, not a common meaning of the word like "we know something".

"To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit..."
1 Cor 12:8

 

[trofimus]

The problem for you it would seem is to find a real Pentecostal church in America amongst all
the show biz money grubbing ministries that plague your nation.

I know of at least one.

I am from the Central Europe, between Germany and Austria. I am not looking for any pentecostal church because I do not accept any of its specific teachings.

 

[notuptome]

Just hold on there!! How about some honesty when handling the Word of God.
You are being very disingenuous here.

8 Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues,
they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Corinthians 13:8-10

Knowledge is still with us today. Even though we look through a glass darkly and have limited
understanding of the magnitude of the spiritual realm and the third heaven.
Also a continuing gift in our Pentecostal fellowship
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Corinthians 12:8

Also Jesus declared the following:
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay
hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:
Nothing here about for a season, or for a time, or for the first generation of believers.

Do not be deceived by the work of the anti-Christ who opposes the original gospel of Pentecost with signs
following.
The fact that the scriptures are true today and people can be converted in the exact same
manner as people in the first century church upholds the validity of the latter rain.
The problem for you it would seem is to find a real Pentecostal church in America amongst all
the show biz money grubbing ministries that plague your nation.

I know of at least one.

Well since this is a light debate thread I suggest you look up some of the other threads where this issue has been heavily debated.

Suffice it to say that you are proof texting without proper context. You are using the long ending of Mark which is no fully accepted to have manuscript authority.

Three gifts ended with the completion of the NT scriptures. Tongues have always been a sign from God of impending judgment. Knowledge has ended in that the knowledge that allowed fishermen to contend with Pharisees has vanished away.

Let Gal 5:22-26 be the standard by which these things are measured.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Then pray in the Spirit (tongues) for the Lord himself to lead you to a church of his approval.
Worked for me.

Pray in whose spirit or what spirit ? The Spirit of His understanding?

 

[garee]

I believe in all of the gifts of the Spirit. The Bible speaks plainly that they are real, and I don't read anywhere where they are to cease.
Goodness, the way times are getting we need them more today than we've ever have.
How else are we the church gonna be ready for the coming of the Lord? I need all spiritual help I can get to be ready and help others to be ready when Jesus comes.

They are all real .Prophecy as in new revelations have ceased . The perfect has come it is sealed up till the end of time with a warning not to add to it.(the whole).

What Paul had in part when moved to bring God's word in 1 Corinthians below today we have the whole/perfect. The dark glass today is clear.(20/20) We are to put on those lenses

Why go above that which is written.? What's the hope in that? Are there any laws missing by which we could know Him more adequately?

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which "is perfect" is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.1Co 13:8

 

[miknik5]

I think that the main power of the Holy Spirit is changing one's life:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
Gal 5:22

"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Gal 5:20

The main thing I have against pentecostal/charismatic movement is the twisted order of priorities. Their main goals are mostly of the flesh (success, health, wealth, power), against the biblical principles and against the Holy Spirit.

I thought their main goal was to preach and point all to CHRIST?

i would never identify an evangelical (a charismatic teacher of THE GOSPEL) to this type of activity at all...I wouldn't even call them anything but liars

one of the reasons we are given HIS SPIRIT is to discern the truth (and those who walk in and are led by TRUTH) from lies
so, though one may label themselves outwardly as an evangelical or a charismatic, if what they do not represent the truth of that office than all they are is a borrower of a name and a misrepresentation of what that name should truly reflect