The Works Required By Jesus For Salvation.

[know1]

Umm...you trying to start Not By Works 2?!

No, I did that.
He's way beyond the works doctrine.

 

[notmyown]

I am only marginally concerned about you. "Theopneustos" #2315 occurs in Scripture only once, and as such cannot be a basis for a valid Doctrine or a reliable Theology.

Or, if you must adhere to Paul's use of this #2315, remember the context of it. The only extant Scripture then was the Torah and Prophets, both truly The Word of God. As well, just because Apostle Peter called Paul's "writings" wise, does not mean they are Theopneustos.

It is good for you and others in here to seek help for your best questions.

no, Peter called Paul's letters 'graphas', which in each case it's used is referring to the Scriptures, like this:

Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? (Mark 12:24)

 

[notmyown]

He needs to go back under his bridge and wait for those three goats to come by...

you think? i like to give people the benefit of the doubt for at least a while, but tbh when people are all, 'let's talk about Paul', i get a little itchy. lol

 

[know1]

Anybody want to make a wager without any money involved?
The closest one wins.
I say the guy won't get off more than 35 posts before he's banned.

 

[know1]

Most on this site think I'm way off, so if I think this person is way way off, then this has to be........
A doctrine of devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ooooooooooooooooooo beware of the doctrine.
Yes, I am having fun.

 

[oyster67]

Within The Bible, there are two categories of speakers. The first and utterly reliable source is Jesus Christ and The Father. The second category is everyone else.

By His own specification in John 12:49, Jesus only spoke The Word of The Father. All other humans in The Bible are at risk for:

1.) Writing things beyond the facts of God's Word.
2.) Mixing their ideas into The Word of God without distinguishing between the two.
3.) Trying to relate the elements of God's Word to their circumstances at hand in a false manner.
4.) Trying to envigorate and embellish what Jesus said with things He did not say.
5.) Filling in the blank spots of their knowledge of God with sensible sounding ideas.

As an example, Jesus never spoke the word "grace," yet Paul alone constantly embellishes this concept. Strangely, Paul never actually gives a working definition of "grace," and his own ungraciousness was at hand when he argued with The Jerusalem Apostles, and when he had destructive contention with his own team members, causing a permanent rift in their ministry.

So, here is a comparison between The Gospel of Jesus, and Paul's ideas.

1.) In The Sermon on the Mount from Matt. 6:14-15 Jesus specifies nobody will be forgiven their sins by The Father unless they first do the work of forgiving all others their sins. Remember, Jesus was speaking to all of humanity, not just to the common Jewish people of His day.

2.) Jesus in Matt. Ch. 19 specifically told the man asking about eternal life to perform the works of keeping the Commandments/Law, and to dispense to the poor all of his wealth.

3.) John 15:14 has Jesus specifying if anyone is to be His friend, they must first do the work of obeying all of His Commands. He does not say people will obey His Commands "because" they are already His friend. This notion is a twisting of both Scripture and of grammatical accuracey.

4.) Matt. Ch. 25 The Parable of The Servants has Jesus throwing into Utter Darkness those who did not do the work of bringing profit from their conferred talents and assests from Jesus.

5.) Jesus in Matt. 7 specifies that only those who do the work of complying with the will of The Father in Heaven will be known by Jesus. The others will be departed from Him into Hell.

Now, just as an example of Paul's ideas upon salvation not spoken of by Jesus, we have Eph. 2:8-9 written by him stating salvation conferring "grace" from God is an unmerited gift apart from any works. So, who is correct? Divine Jesus, or Creative Paul?

Just as others have already said; the thief on the cross did none of those things on your list, Paul never once contradicted Jesus, and the only "work" we have to do is make the right choice. Everything that comes forth later is a result and the fruit of this choice. Come just as you are my friend. Your works will avail nothing until you humble yourself and admit you can do nothing without Him.

Josh 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Please, I am not Jesus. I did not "indicate" what Jesus specified about the need to forgive before being forgiven.

What works did the malefactor "do" for Salvation?

Please refrain from foolishly misqouting me. But if you wish to continue doing so, it is your choice.

I did not misquote you. I specifically went through your list of comparisons and asked if the malefactor had done any of the things you specify in your Items 1 – 4.


Here is your comparison (bold mine):

So, here is a comparison between The Gospel of Jesus, and Paul's ideas.

1.) In The Sermon on the Mount from Matt. 6:14-15 Jesus specifies nobody will be forgiven their sins by The Father unless they first do the work of forgiving all others their sins. Remember, Jesus was speaking to all of humanity, not just to the common Jewish people of His day.

2.) Jesus in Matt. Ch. 19 specifically told the man asking about eternal life to perform the works of keeping the Commandments/Law, and to dispense to the poor all of his wealth.

3.) John 15:14 has Jesus specifying if anyone is to be His friend, they must first do the work of obeying all of His Commands. He does not say people will obey His Commands "because" they are already His friend. This notion is a twisting of both Scripture and of grammatical accuracey.

4.) Matt. Ch. 25 The Parable of The Servants has Jesus throwing into Utter Darkness those who did not do the work of bringing profit from their conferred talents and assests from Jesus.

Here is my post wherein I state those things you indicate must be done (bold mine):

I wonder if the malefactor (who, according to Jesus, will be with Him in paradise) first forgave all others their sins (as OP indicates must be done according to Matt 6:14-15);

or if the malefactor performed the works of keeping the Commandments/Law, and to dispense to the poor all of his wealth (as OP indicates must be done according to Matt Ch. 19);

or if the malefactor obeyed all of His Commands (as OP indicates must be done according to John 15:14);

or if the malefactor brought profit from his conferred talents and assets from Jesus (as OP indicates must be done according to Matt.Ch. 25 The Parable of The Servants).

 

[Cranston]

no, Peter called Paul's letters 'graphas', which in each case it's used is referring to the Scriptures, like this:

Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? (Mark 12:24)

I see your post above readily distinguished between "the Scriptures" and "the power of God," as if they are seperate entities.

Remember, accurate exegesis does not occur when trying to make a thin interpretaion become valid by saying a similar sounding Text is "like this." Lol. "How things seem to be" is the tool of The Devil.

Much "wisdom" is written by uncounted Believers, but that does not make their writings to become actual Scripture with the same pedigree as The Torah and Prophets. Share more of your ideas with me. I have a wonderful Ministry for those who have ears to hear, and eyes to see.

Let's try this. Was Jesus hedging, or misrepresenting, The Gospel when He told The Rich Young Ruler to:

1.) Obey The Commands?
2.) Divest himself of all wealth unto the Poor?

Amswer?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Within The Bible, there are two categories of speakers. The first and utterly reliable source is Jesus Christ and The Father. The second category is everyone else.

When one begins with a false premise, one ends up with a false conclusion. Since ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God (God-breathed) all Scripture is the Word of God, whether the words were spoken by the Father, the Son, or the Holy Ghost. Every prophet, evangelist, or apostles was given the actual words by the Holy Spirit.

As an example, Jesus never spoke the word "grace," yet Paul alone constantly embellishes this concept. Strangely, Paul never actually gives a working definition of "grace," and his own ungraciousness was at hand when he argued with The Jerusalem Apostles, and when he had destructive contention with his own team members, causing a permanent rift in their ministry.

So now you are presenting your agenda. Pit Paul against Christ, so we can ignore over half the New Testament. It just won't fly. Paul wrote by Divine inspiration, and Peter called ALL his epistles "Scripture".

So, here is a comparison between The Gospel of Jesus, and Paul's ideas.

Since Paul built upon the foundation of Christ and the apostles, there is no need to take this approach. Once a foundation is laid, you don't put another foundation over it. And since Christ Himself taught Paul directly, you are the one who needs to step back and discard your false concept of any conflict between any of the writings in Scripture.

Now, just as an example of Paul's ideas upon salvation not spoken of by Jesus, we have Eph. 2:8-9 written by him stating salvation conferring "grace" from God is an unmerited gift apart from any works. So, who is correct? Divine Jesus, or Creative Paul?

So now you choose to promote a fallacy. These were not "Paul's ideas" but God's revelation given through His servant Paul. So it is God Himself who is telling us that (1) we are saved by grace through faith, (2) that salvation does not originate with us (or is produced by our works) but with God, (3) that salvation is God's gift to the sinner who obeys the Gospel and (4) that those who are saved are saved "unto good works" (and also righteous living).

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Fight the good fight of faith, i.e., fight to believe only!

The Table Of Shewbread (Jesus is the Living Bread)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And thou shalt make for it four rings of gold, and put the rings in the four corners that are on the four feet thereof.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Over against the border shall the rings be for places of the staves to bear the table.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And thou shalt make the staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold, that the table may be borne with them. Exodus 25:26-28

(Wherever the Lord led Israel, even though it was in the wilderness, His Table accompanied them! So, wherever the Christian's lot may be cast, even though it may be in a prison, such as Paul, the Believer can continue to feed on Christ, for Christ is ever with him.)

The symbolism is this:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen (Matthew 28:20), i.e., Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

JSM

 

[Ahwatukee]

Within The Bible, there are two categories of speakers. The first and utterly reliable source is Jesus Christ and The Father. The second category is everyone else.

By His own specification in John 12:49, Jesus only spoke The Word of The Father. All other humans in The Bible are at risk for:

1.) Writing things beyond the facts of God's Word.
2.) Mixing their ideas into The Word of God without distinguishing between the two.
3.) Trying to relate the elements of God's Word to their circumstances at hand in a false manner.
4.) Trying to envigorate and embellish what Jesus said with things He did not say.
5.) Filling in the blank spots of their knowledge of God with sensible sounding ideas.

As an example, Jesus never spoke the word "grace," yet Paul alone constantly embellishes this concept. Strangely, Paul never actually gives a working definition of "grace," and his own ungraciousness was at hand when he argued with The Jerusalem Apostles, and when he had destructive contention with his own team members, causing a permanent rift in their ministry.

So, here is a comparison between The Gospel of Jesus, and Paul's ideas.

1.) In The Sermon on the Mount from Matt. 6:14-15 Jesus specifies nobody will be forgiven their sins by The Father unless they first do the work of forgiving all others their sins. Remember, Jesus was speaking to all of humanity, not just to the common Jewish people of His day.

2.) Jesus in Matt. Ch. 19 specifically told the man asking about eternal life to perform the works of keeping the Commandments/Law, and to dispense to the poor all of his wealth.

3.) John 15:14 has Jesus specifying if anyone is to be His friend, they must first do the work of obeying all of His Commands. He does not say people will obey His Commands "because" they are already His friend. This notion is a twisting of both Scripture and of grammatical accuracey.

4.) Matt. Ch. 25 The Parable of The Servants has Jesus throwing into Utter Darkness those who did not do the work of bringing profit from their conferred talents and assests from Jesus.

5.) Jesus in Matt. 7 specifies that only those who do the work of complying with the will of The Father in Heaven will be known by Jesus. The others will be departed from Him into Hell.

Now, just as an example of Paul's ideas upon salvation not spoken of by Jesus, we have Eph. 2:8-9 written by him stating salvation conferring "grace" from God is an unmerited gift apart from any works. So, who is correct? Divine Jesus, or Creative Paul?

Greeting Cranston,

It is your interpretation of the scriptures that is in error regarding Jesus and Paul. In addition to what Nehemiah6 responded with regarding your discrediting Paul, you should be careful of being guilty of the following:

"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Paul received Revelation and visions directly from the Lord and also being caught up to the third heaven. Those who attempt to discredit Paul and his writings are discrediting the Lord and that to their own destruction. For Paul wrote what he received from the Lord. Consider what Peter and Paul wrote in the following:

"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

In light of the above, it would be to your great benefit to repent of this. For as it stands, you are discrediting Paul's words, as though they were his own and not the Lords. Peter says that such people are ignorant and unstable and do so to their own destruction.

I pray that you will reconsider.

 

[tourist]

Anybody want to make a wager without any money involved?
The closest one wins.
I say the guy won't get off more than 35 posts before he's banned.

The current over/under is 35. I'm going with lower.

 

[garee]

Did Paul preach many things not preached by Jesus?

Paul preached the words put on his lips as the Spirit of Christ worked in him to both will and do the good pleasure of the Holy Spirit. Just a he moved Balaams ass (the ass a ceremonial unclean creature representing a unbeliever) to show us He is not served by human will as hands. or the put words prophet Jeremiah's mouth.

Jer 1:9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

He shows us an example of the father not seen as Lord typified by Moses and the Son of man Jesus seen typified by Aaron working to accomplish the purpose of one .

And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.Exo 4:15

It would seem he is always represented as a dynamic duel . The father and I are one.

We can see that in creation creating one creation as two if they were separate creations not like the rest of the creation that was not created in his image .. they were made male separately, and female separately.Again not the image of god

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him(mankind) ; male and female created he them.

 

[mcubed]

Listen, in February of 1991. I spoke with my mouth, J-shua save me! For the last 26 years I have believed with all of my heart. Have never stopped being saved from the moment I cried out. My works: I said with my mouth, I believed/ believe with all my heart I am a sinner in need of a Savior and Y-shua is Him. Repeat for good measure... And in 26 years He has NEVER stopped being my Savior!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Hmmm, I have a feeling you won't be around here for long.

#nostradomus

 

[know1]

The current over/under is 35. I'm going with lower.

Wait for it........... Wait for it.........
Isn't this exciting?
Thanks for responding to my post sir, I got a chuckle out of it.
I will however have to come back to this thread to see who wins.