Not by works, not by "only believe", and not by faith alone either

know1 · Sep 25, 2017

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Scriptureclearly teaches that righteousness is NOT attained to justificationby the works of the law, but is obtained through faith in Jesus'finished work on the cross. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Rom3:28 Therefore we conclude that [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]aman is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thisfact most of us know and acknowledge as truth, myself included.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Butthe bible also teaches that "only believe" and faith alonewill not do the job either.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Butsome say that scripture teaches contrary saying;[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Rom4:3 For what saith the scripture? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Abraham [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]believed[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif] God[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif],and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]andlike;[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Joh3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begottenSon, that [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]whosoeverbelieveth[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]inhim should not perish, but have everlasting life. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]ButI submit to you that there is more than one kind of believing. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Forexample some definitions of "believe" is as follows;[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1.To accept as true; take to be true[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"Ibelieved his report"; "We didn't believe his stories fromthe War"; "She believes in spirits"[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2. Judgeor regard; look upon[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"Ibelieve her to be very smart"[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]3. Beconfident about something[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"Ibelieve that he will come back from the war"[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]4.(religion) follow a credo; have a faith; be a believer[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"Whenyou hear his sermons, you will be able to believe, too"[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Toput it simply;[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1is based on facts.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2is based on observations, as in, seeing things.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]3is confident, BUT not knowing for certain. In other words, HOPING ORWISHING.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]4I think is more along the lines of having faith in something orsomeone.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]5.And then there's the bible version of believe.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2Co4:13 [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Wehaving the same spirit of faith[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif],according as it is written, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ibelieved, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]andtherefore have I spoken[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]wealso believe, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]andtherefore speak[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]; [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thepoint is, one believes and therefore acts on and in accordance tothat specific belief. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Andthe scriptures call that, FAITH.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thework being done by the person in faith[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]is,the speaking or confessing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Yes,that is a work of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Jamesalso teaches that faith without works of faith is dead as well. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Jas2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hathfaith, and have not works? can [that do nothing] faith [or faithwithout corresponding works] save him? [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Theobvious answer is, NO. No salvation without a work of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Hegoes on to say that faith without corresponding works is a dead oruseless faith. Meaning that it will NOT bear any fruit. Which againtranslates to, no salvation.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Onecannot have faith for salvation if they have only been taught thatGod heals through medications, treatment, and doctors.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Why?Because the words given have nothing to do with salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Andsince faith comes by hearing, if they accept those words, their faithwill only be in the medications, treatments, and doctor's knowledgeand procedures. In other words, they will have faith in the naturalonly, not in God. I say that because they will act on what they havebeen taught and truly believe. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ifyou teach people, like most are taught concerning healing, that Godmight save you or He might not, depending on what His will is, andthat you will never know what that is, then they will not nor canthey have ANY faith for God to save them. Why, because they don'tknow what God will do. They could say, "Well, I believe Hewill...", but the fact is, THEY DON'T KNOW, and therefore, ifthey do act on that info, will do so either with some apprehension orhope mixed with some doubt or question. They will be acting withoutany certainty of knowing. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ifyou don't know what God will do, or what His will is, then you CANNOTand do NOT have faith in God to answer your prayer.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Evenif you're not sure if a medication, treatment, or doctor can takecare of the problem, you still have no faith, even though it is inthe natural. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]FAITH[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]issimply acting on what you [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]believeIN YOUR HEART[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]KNOWING[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]theend result, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]BEFORE[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]youbegin to act.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ifyou don't know what the end result will be, then you are simplyhoping or wishing. And on the negative side, worrying or in fear.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Onthe flip side of things, fear, being the reciprocal of faith, isacting on something bad that you believe in your heart, or a workdone in fear, will happen. For example;[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Job1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were goneabout, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in themorning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of themall: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed Godin their hearts. Thus did Job continually. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Job3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, andthat which I was afraid of is come unto me. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Actingon that fear, which is a work, WILL cause it to manifest in thenatural, just like acting on your faith will cause it tomanifest, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]IF[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]YOUBELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT EITHER THE GOOD OR BAD WILL COME TOPASS. If your faith is in the natural, then the natural will come topass, and if it's in the supernatural, then that too will come topass. For it is written, "According to your faith be it [done]unto you", and "as thou hast believed, be it done untothee".[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Butwhether your faith is in the natural or in God, if it is forsomething good, then God WILL move in the situation, and whether itbe of faith or fear, good or bad, blessing or cursing, whateverbelief [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]youact on, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]will[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif] cometo pass.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Forthat is the law of faith and fear, according to the word of God.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Theword of God says that we are saved by the grace of God through faith,and that is to them that have acted on the knowledge of Jesus' workon the cross and God's faithfulness to keep or fulfill Hisword/promise to them that believe.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]BothPaul and James clearly tell us that we have to act on what webelieve, or our faith, in order for that faith to bear fruit. AndPaul shows that speaking words in faith, IS a work of faith. Thiswork or simple act on our part, is what causes what we desire to cometo pass, both in the natural and supernatural. But it is either aspirit of and from God or the devil that brings it about or thatcauses it to come to pass, depending on, if that which you acted onwas in faith or fear, or whether is was for a blessing or acurse. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Evenas there are different kinds of believing, the same hold true withworks.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thereare good and bad works that we do physically in the natural, thatcannot save or keep us saved.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thereare works of the law, that cannot save either. For no one can be goodenough to go to heaven. This we all know.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thereare no works, that give the same results as above. Zero timesanything always equals zero, and nothing done in faith produces thesame.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Andthen there are works of faith that justify. Without works of faith,there is no justification unto salvation, even as there is nosalvation without forgiveness of sins.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Iwould like to center mostly on the works of faith, because [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"faithwithout works" or simply believing, produces nothing. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thereis a story of a man who tight roped across the Niagara Falls, in NY,and after He did that he ask everyone if they believe he could do itagain with someone on his shoulders, and everyone said, yes. Then heask, 'who believes enough to do it with me'. Guess how many peoplebelieved enough to actually act on that belief? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Andthat is what we have in the church. A bunch of people saying they aresaved, and even believing the same, but because they failed to act onthe word of God, they are not.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]God'sunderstanding and definition of believing is notsimply [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]acknowledging[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]thatyou believe what God said about Jesus' work on the cross. If thegospel is not believed and received personally in your heart [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]ANDACTED UPON[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif],that person is not a born again believer. They are tares amongthe wheat. They will ever be learning but never able to come to thetruth if they continue in that state.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]AndRomans 10:8 - 10 backs that up.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Cananyone else see this?[/FONT]

Muzungu256 · Sep 25, 2017

sekkluud mon is this another strange doctrine u see......... so why dont all these super faith folks just get healed of every illness and live forever in the flesh?????

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA just what we needed more strange doctrines to the pot. mix it up and serve it. im dying

who is teaching this, its hard for me to even follow this thread..... so are u saying u gotta believe God will heal u or not saved????

mailmandan · Sep 25, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

I hear you. It's hard for me to follow this thread as well. Some people really like to make things complicated. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT.

I'll keep it very simple: Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

know1 · Sep 25, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

No sir. Sorry for the confusion I caused. Still working on my effective communication deliveries.
The thread is quite simple.
It's about works of faith in order for one to be saved.
Most people don't even know about works of faith, but it is all through the word of God.
Most people say all you have to do is believe and you will be save, but that is not what I see scripture saying.
Works of faith are not the same as works of the law, or good works.
Works of the law and good works are things that you do in the natural or physically, such as giving to the poor, going to church, and the like, that are just that. Good works that you have done in your own strength and abilities that causes an end result. Works of that nature are not of faith, neither do they require any faith on the part of the person doing the work. Not only that, but God is not involved as far as doing anything.
Paul said that God's power is made perfect in his weakness or in his inability to do something, such as getting himself into heaven. Paul cannot be good enough or do any work of the law or good work to get himself into heaven or cause God to forgive him of his sins.
So things you can do without God, is just that, you doing it, not God, and therefore was not done in faith. Neither was any faith require to get the job done.
Faith moves the hand of God, like the time when you receive Christ as your lord and savior.
Let me give you an example.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Okay, look at verses 8 and 10 and notice how the word of faith works. The same word that Paul preached everywhere.
First you believe in your heart, and then they confess, that which they believe, with their mouth, and after that is done, then salvation is made. That's it in a nut shell.
Do you understand?

know1 · Sep 25, 2017

mailmandan said:

Most of what you said is correct and I agree with, but your definition of "alone" is not quite right.
The word of God talks about faith without works, being alone, is dead, lifeless, and without effect. It doesn't have anything to do with faith in Christ's redemptive work alone.
All the works you mentioned are works of the law or just plain good deeds, which do nothing regarding our salvation, as you said, but you failed to say anything about works of faith.
Works of faith can, in some respects, be synonymous with words of faith.
Both require one to believe in their heart and to perform a corresponding physical work that causes the hand of God to move.

Speak2Me · Sep 25, 2017

I agree with you know1, because Jesus said "repent and believe the gospel". Repenting requires actions from us, not sitting around and thinking about it. So does believing.

TruthTalk · Sep 25, 2017

know1 said:

Onecannot have faith for salvation if they have only been taught thatGod heals through medications, treatment, and doctors.
Why?Because the words given have nothing to do with salvation.
Andsince faith comes by hearing, if they accept those words, their faithwill only be in the medications, treatments, and doctor's knowledgeand procedures. In other words, they will have faith in the naturalonly, not in God. I say that because they will act on what they havebeen taught and truly believe.
Ifyou teach people, like most are taught concerning healing, that Godmight save you or He might not, depending on what His will is, andthat you will never know what that is, then they will not nor canthey have ANY faith for God to save them. Why, because they don'tknow what God will do. They could say, "Well, I believe Hewill...", but the fact is, THEY DON'T KNOW, and therefore, ifthey do act on that info, will do so either with some apprehension orhope mixed with some doubt or question. They will be acting withoutany certainty of knowing.
Ifyou don't know what God will do, or what His will is, then you CANNOTand do NOT have faith in God to answer your prayer.
Evenif you're not sure if a medication, treatment, or doctor can takecare of the problem, you still have no faith, even though it is inthe natural.
FAITHissimply acting on what you believeIN YOUR HEART, KNOWINGtheend result, BEFOREyoubegin to act.
Ifyou don't know what the end result will be, then you are simplyhoping or wishing. And on the negative side, worrying or in fear.
Onthe flip side of things, fear, being the reciprocal of faith, isacting on something bad that you believe in your heart, or a workdone in fear, will happen. For example;

Actingon that fear, which is a work, WILL cause it to manifest in thenatural, just like acting on your faith will cause it tomanifest, IFYOUBELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT EITHER THE GOOD OR BAD WILL COME TOPASS. If your faith is in the natural, then the natural will come topass, and if it's in the supernatural, then that too will come topass. For it is written, "According to your faith be it [done]unto you", and "as thou hast believed, be it done untothee".
Butwhether your faith is in the natural or in God, if it is forsomething good, then God WILL move in the situation, and whether itbe of faith or fear, good or bad, blessing or cursing, whateverbelief youact on, will cometo pass.Forthat is the law of faith and fear, according to the word of God.

Theword of God says that we are saved by the grace of God through faith,and that is to them that have acted on the knowledge of Jesus' workon the cross and God's faithfulness to keep or fulfill Hisword/promise to them that believe.

BothPaul and James clearly tell us that we have to act on what webelieve, or our faith, in order for that faith to bear fruit. AndPaul shows that speaking words in faith, IS a work of faith. Thiswork or simple act on our part, is what causes what we desire to cometo pass, both in the natural and supernatural. But it is either aspirit of and from God or the devil that brings it about or thatcauses it to come to pass, depending on, if that which you acted onwas in faith or fear, or whether is was for a blessing or acurse.
Evenas there are different kinds of believing, the same hold true withworks.
Thereare good and bad works that we do physically in the natural, thatcannot save or keep us saved.
Thereare works of the law, that cannot save either. For no one can be goodenough to go to heaven. This we all know.
Thereare no works, that give the same results as above. Zero timesanything always equals zero, and nothing done in faith produces thesame.
Andthen there are works of faith that justify. Without works of faith,there is no justification unto salvation, even as there is nosalvation without forgiveness of sins.
Iwould like to center mostly on the works of faith, because "faithwithout works" or simply believing, produces nothing.
Thereis a story of a man who tight roped across the Niagara Falls, in NY,and after He did that he ask everyone if they believe he could do itagain with someone on his shoulders, and everyone said, yes. Then heask, 'who believes enough to do it with me'. Guess how many peoplebelieved enough to actually act on that belief?
Andthat is what we have in the church. A bunch of people saying they aresaved, and even believing the same, but because they failed to act onthe word of God, they are not.
God'sunderstanding and definition of believing is notsimply acknowledgingthatyou believe what God said about Jesus' work on the cross. If thegospel is not believed and received personally in your heart ANDACTED UPON,that person is not a born again believer. They are tares amongthe wheat. They will ever be learning but never able to come to thetruth if they continue in that state.
AndRomans 10:8 - 10 backs that up.
Cananyone else see this?

I cannot make sense of your theoretical salvation and it is so difficult to go through your post because everthingislumpted together.

This is correct theology: Justification by faith

Our Justification; God does not need our good works, we are saved by God's grace apart from our wonderful works.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, "not by works," so that no one can boast." Ephesians2:8,9

Our Sanctification; what a true believer does after they are born again; get baptized, go to church, read your bible, pray to God, go help your neighbor mow the lawn,

"For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph2:10

No "Hyper Grace" here, no discrepancy here in God's plan of Salvation;

Our Justification, you are saved eternally, (God will never let you out of his hand), apart from works, yes Jesus paid it all.

Our Sanctification, we are set apart to do God's will; get baptized, go to church, and cut your neighbor's lawn.

To quote a true believer on this forum, "God does all the good that is within us"

What James is talking about is your's and mine, "Sanctification" nothing to do with keeping us saved but from the love of God shed abroad in our heart, we serve Him.

God bless

know1 · Sep 25, 2017

Speak2Me said:

Hey, thank you, you get a free cookie for being the first person to agree with me on one thing.
No really, thanks for the post.
Honestly, I don't know how so many so called Christian miss this, and not just that, but vehemently appose it.
Unwittingly speaking against something they did to get saved.
How many Christian never verbally said with their mouth that Jesus is lord of their lives, after they received the gospel of Jesus Christ?
They just spoke the word of faith, which is a work of faith, and in so doing, God moved by taking away the old stony heart and giving them a fresh new heart and spirit, then He put a seed from and of His Spirit it the person, and they became born again.

Nehemiah6 · Sep 26, 2017

mailmandan said:

Very true, and we see more or more of such threads appearing. But here is the simplicity of the Gospel (Rom 6:23):

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Bible speaks of "the simplicity of Christ" and anyone who reads the Gospels will see this immediately.

followjesus · Sep 26, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

so really people should find a verse they agree with and claim thats the simplicity in christ ?? lol

the simplicity of Christ is to Hear and obey him cant get more simple than that "Hear God...do what God said to do"...the end

simple.

its what adam didnt get Gods Word = Life. simple, the issue is that man doesnt do that so then you have a book with a million words, it seems like maybe theres more to it than One verse but idk maybe i just dont get it i should probably toss out my Bibles and Just go buy a gog book so jp can teach me the real truth

yea..naw i think ill stick With the truth

Hebrews 5 :Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

acts 5: 29-32 "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

i must be thick it seems as if One verse doesnt explain the Bible....i wish it really was as simple as a single verse, but seems theres quite a reason for God to speak and say all He said and Have it sent to the World. i think im gonna stick With the Bible and more than a verse or three id rather read, study and learn as much as possible because it changes Lives.

followjesus · Sep 26, 2017

saved By Grace, through Faith a biblical example

Genesis 6:8-22 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.....
v 11 "The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; ( God dives Noah the instructions for building the ark)

v22Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."

Noah Believed what God said to Him, so Noah did what God told Him to do. God told Him because of Grace, and Noah obeyed Because He believed Gods Warning. thats what the righteousness of faith is and Heres the proof from the Bible

Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, ( the coming flood) moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

by the time the Bible gets to paul paul is saying phrases that are explained in scripture beforehand. such as pauls teaching about the righteousness of Faith. its not to say "do nothing just believe in the finished works of the cross" Faith is the reason we do Obey God, simply because we Believe Him. Just Like Noah, God told us through Jesus, that the world will come to a violent end , and He also instructed us Like He did Noah because of Grace. Faith happens By the Word of God. Noah believed God even though He didnt see it for Himself, God said im gonna destroy all flesh, build an ark......

Faith is that Noah Belived God, and did what God in His grace commanded Noiah to do, Noah did it because He believed what God said. He didnt have any physical evidence God would destroy the earth, He took God at his Word and acted as if He believed God. so of course He is gonna build the Ark because He believed destruction was coming simply Because Gods Word said it was coming. righteousness by Faith has a definiton in the Word. its not void of Works, its works Because We believe its really that simple Go to Jesus and learn what He is really saying, because alot of false teachers wont tell you what He said they will tell you what they want you to Know. Just Believe...yes, but Belief has to be real and Has to be in what Jesus said as much as His death and resurrection and the rest. what God said is true thats all anyone needs to really keep.if thats really believed obedience will come swiftly and good works the result. were saved By Grace Because God told us the truth about whats coming and provided a way out of it,

"titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."

Good works are not an evil under the sun like some would say

dcontroversal · Sep 26, 2017

mailmandan said:

I hear you. It's hard for me to follow this thread as well. Some people really like to make things complicated. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT.

I'll keep it very simple: Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

The simplicity that is found in Christ--->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Nehemiah6 · Sep 26, 2017

followjesus said:

Well what is complicated about G-I-F-T? Even children understand what a gift is.

So, in order to reinforce to all that salvation (which is essentially the gift of eternal life) is indeed God's gift to the sinner who repents and believes, we have John 3:16, another SINGLE VERSE which sums up the Gospel and includes God's gift: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Does "gave" mean "gift"? Case closed.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 26, 2017

know1 said:

Anything that is dead is non existent.

There is NO SUCH THING as faith alone. A dead faith is no faith at all.. True faith ALWAYS produces works, otherwise, the declaration that faith which is not followed by works is dead is a useless, meaningless claim, Because if their could be a true faith apart from works. it would not be dead.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 26, 2017

Speak2Me said:

Again, You have the cart before the horse.

Repentance CAUSES faith which CAUSES works.

works do not CAUSE repentance and Works do not CAUSE faith. they are a byproduct

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Heb 10:14

And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:10

We are made perfect, we are made holy through Christ and his sacrifice.

Now if we are perfect, it means we have no reason to sin, and sin is our choice.
If we are Holy, why are so many so compromised?

Spiritual authority.

Who reigns in your life and who do you really believe?
If you give your life over to the enemy by denying the promises and work of Jesus,
is it any wonder your life reflects this spiritual defeat.

I heard of this story of a pastor who wondered if astrology was true or not.
He got a personal chart drawn up for him and to his surprise it started to come true.
Eventually he realised he had sinned and repented, and the chart then failed to show
his life.

But what was really going on?

The future is not set, but the Kingdom to which you belong is. If you give yourself
over to the kingdom of darkness by acknowledging it authority over you, it will then
control and predict your future. Now in Christ this power is broken by acknowledging
Christ, having faith in Him for the forgiveness of ones sins etc and walking in His ways.

But often believers slip and start denying the Kingdom and walking another way.
Unbelief is one such sin and problem. Believing Jesus can honour His promises to help
you walk in His ways, is exercising faith. Little wonder those who deny this reality,
find their own prophecy is fulfilled. It takes no spiritual insight or authority to walk
in sin, in fact just the opposite.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 26, 2017

followjesus said:

If being good and morally upright was simple. the law would have saved millions, and Jesus never would have had to give up all he had to come to earth, be a man, Suffer the humiliation of the cross. and take On Gods wrath for all people.

The simplicity in christ is to repent, trust him, and let him do what he needs to do. But what we see is people want to make it hard. and deny that what they preach is impossible (you can never be morally upright in Gods eyes apart from Christ. for all have sinned, and fall short)

eternally-gratefull · Sep 26, 2017

followjesus said:

saved By Grace, through Faith a biblical example

Genesis 6:8-22 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.....
v 11 "The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; ( God dives Noah the instructions for building the ark)

v22Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."

Noah Believed what God said to Him, so Noah did what God told Him to do. God told Him because of Grace, and Noah obeyed Because He believed Gods Warning. thats what the righteousness of faith is and Heres the proof from the Bible

Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, ( the coming flood) moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

by the time the Bible gets to paul paul is saying phrases that are explained in scripture beforehand. such as pauls teaching about the righteousness of Faith. its not to say "do nothing just believe in the finished works of the cross" Faith is the reason we do Obey God, simply because we Believe Him. Just Like Noah, God told us through Jesus, that the world will come to a violent end , and He also instructed us Like He did Noah because of Grace. Faith happens By the Word of God. Noah believed God even though He didnt see it for Himself, God said im gonna destroy all flesh, build an ark......

Faith is that Noah Belived God, and did what God in His grace commanded Noiah to do, Noah did it because He believed what God said. He didnt have any physical evidence God would destroy the earth, He took God at his Word and acted as if He believed God. so of course He is gonna build the Ark because He believed destruction was coming simply Because Gods Word said it was coming. righteousness by Faith has a definiton in the Word. its not void of Works, its works Because We believe its really that simple Go to Jesus and learn what He is really saying, because alot of false teachers wont tell you what He said they will tell you what they want you to Know. Just Believe...yes, but Belief has to be real and Has to be in what Jesus said as much as His death and resurrection and the rest. what God said is true thats all anyone needs to really keep.if thats really believed obedience will come swiftly and good works the result. were saved By Grace Because God told us the truth about whats coming and provided a way out of it,

"titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."

Good works are not an evil under the sun like some would say

They were not save by their work, They were saved by their faith, Because they TRUSTED GOD. they worked.

You people wanting to add your own righteousness to the gospel of Christ should be ashamed of yourself.

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

EG - you should be ashamed of yourself lying about what people are saying, so blatently
and without regard for your sin.

When someone says God has moved in them and they walk in Gods ways, it is testimony
to Gods provision and not the individuals works or righteousness.

A plant does not say, look how I have grown it is down to me, no it says I was planted
in good soil, my roots have gone down, I have had good sunshine and been able to
prosper by Gods gifts to me which I can use.

Peter put it like this,

If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 4:11

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2:10

When people share about Gods handiwork in their lives it is to bring praise to Him.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.
2 Cor 12:9

Gods glory is to transform us into the image of His son, Amen.

PeterJens · Sep 26, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Here is summarised the failure of many.

Following God is not about being a good person and the problem with man is they are not.

The problem is without fellowship with God we are lost, we will always destroy and go
wrong, no matter how hard we try, everything comes from God that works.

But the straw man gospel being put here is if we could be good by ourselves we would not
need God. This is just so distorted and wrong. It is the worlds view of life is being
separate and in this separateness we could be ok, but our failure to be ok is the
thing we are trying to solve.

So to these guys if through Christ we walk righteously, we have just stopped needing God
so the gospel is irrelevant. They think like the world, not in communion with God and
understanding love and having love overflowing from their hearts.

It shows in both their attitude and their lies that they have no problem speaking continuously
and their slander, like they were born into it. Now in their world it all makes sense because
they are for whatever reason cut off from the love of God. They hate righteousness to the
extent they call everyone talking about it self righteous hyprocrites and accuse them of the
worst evils they can think up.

Now only disconnected people would do this who have not been touched by this love that
transforms, or else they would listen to Christ and know what He means.

Not by works, not by "only believe", and not by faith alone either

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