Do we need G-d?

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mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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#1
I listened a debate tonight Richard Dawkins vs. John Lennox do we need G-d to be moral and to do good?

What does this "drive" come from?


I have chose to ask this question because of how many people on here believe in evolution...
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#2
We need God in every way. His words speak life into existence- both physically and spiritually. Truly "Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." That's why eternal separation from God is death- because if He goes, so does our life source.

I was going through the closet one time, and I found some plastic glow in the dark stars that used to be in my son's room. I remembered that they seemed to shine forever. But being in the dark closet for years, there was no light left in them. I put them under the lamp until that night, and they seemed to shine brighter than ever. And I thought to myself "This is how we are. God made us good, and we thus reflect His light to others. But the less we read His Word or think of Him, this light fades. I guess that's why Jesus said the love of most will grow cold."

He's our battery, and we can walk around doing good for quite some time. But if we don't recharge our battery (prayer and bible study) it will go out eventually. So yeah, if we are completely without Him we can do no good.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#3
Well, yes of course I believe that we need God... "in Him we live and move and have our being" and "in Him all things hold together". I hate it when I fall apart! ;)

One tactic used by atheists is the 'bait and switch'. They will define evolution as "change with respect to time", then ridicule Christians who disagree. Once they've established that common understanding, they will start talking about goo-to-you evolution as though it's the same thing.

What amazes me is the absence of scientific evidence for goo-to-you getting started. It's all speculation, and the atheists treat it as unassailable scientific "fact". It's ridiculous. Now, even "science" is getting redefined so that the unproven hypotheses of evolution can be called science. Keep nailing the atheists on these points, and enjoy the show as they squirm and wiggle.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
218
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#4
Well, yes of course I believe that we need God... "in Him we live and move and have our being" and "in Him all things hold together". I hate it when I fall apart! ;)

One tactic used by atheists is the 'bait and switch'. They will define evolution as "change with respect to time", then ridicule Christians who disagree. Once they've established that common understanding, they will start talking about goo-to-you evolution as though it's the same thing.

What amazes me is the absence of scientific evidence for goo-to-you getting started. It's all speculation, and the atheists treat it as unassailable scientific "fact". It's ridiculous. Now, even "science" is getting redefined so that the unproven hypotheses of evolution can be called science. Keep nailing the atheists on these points, and enjoy the show as they squirm and wiggle.

I am in agreement with you 100%! Do you know what amazes me more, not atheist that believe in evolution, but the "Christians" that do not believe the Bible ... In the beginning G-d.... Does it not all rise and fall on Gen 1:1?
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#5
I don't see how a Christian can believe in evolution.. you believe in GOD or you don't..

There is a lady I know who is a Christian yet apologised that in fact the Big Bang theory is True and believes it...
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#6
Job 38:12, "Have you ever in your life commanded the morning, And caused the dawn to know its place,”

Psalm 33:6, "By the Word of יהוה the heavens were made, And all their host by the Spirit of His mouth,"

Psalm 147:4-5, "He appoints the number of the stars, He gives names to all of them. Great is our Master and mighty in power, There is no limit to His understanding."

Isaiah 40:26, "Lift up your eyes on high and see. Who has created these? He who is bringing out their host by number, He calls them all by name, by the greatness of His might and the strength of His power – not one is missing."

Isaiah 29:13-16, "Therefore YHWH said: Because these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their reverence to Me is taught by the precept of men; Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people; a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men; discerning, will be hid. Woe to those who seek deep to hide their counsel; plans, from Yahweh, whose works are in the dark, and who say; Who sees us? Who knows us? Truly your turning things upside down will be esteemed as the potter's clay; for will the work say of him who made it; He did not make me? Will the thing that is formed say of him who formed it; He has no understanding?"

Judges 21:25, "In those days there was no sovereign in Yisra’yl – everyone did what was right in his own eyes."

Jeremiah 18:15, "“But My people have forgotten Me, they have burned incense to what is false, and they have stumbled from their ways, from the ancient paths, to walk in bypaths and not on a highway,"

John 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
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#7
I listened a debate tonight Richard Dawkins vs. John Lennox do we need G-d to be moral and to do good?

What does this "drive" come from?


I have chose to ask this question because of how many people on here believe in evolution...
***evolution---aliens---and many other foolish things being promoted are distractions to get people away from the fact that Jesus died for our sins---His blood is the atonement for sin and without it even "good" men will be lost---yes, men can do good on Earth without God, but they will be lost without Christ...
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#8
The new age movement(1 Timothy 4:1-5),is the future for this sinful world(2 Timothy 4:2-4).

The new age movement believes in evolution,and believes people are still evolving to be greater than their current state,of course by the power of nature,and are waiting for the New Age Christ,which the Bible calls him the man of sin,to appear and restore the hidden mysteries of the past,and open the door for the people that follow him to be able to have power through nature,and evolve.

Evolution is the main culprit for the world rebelling against God,and it will make sense to the world,for so many of them believe in evolution,and would believe that people are still evolving,and people who claim to be a Christian,but believe in evolution,might fall victim to the new age movement interpretation of the Bible.

Which the Spirit speaks expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,giving heed to seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils,the new age movement,so many who once had the faith of the Bible will turn to the new age movement interpretation of the Bible based on spiritual evolution through nature.

For they held the belief of evolution,but believed in a personal God,but then gave way to the new age movement interpretation of the Bible,evolution,and no belief in a personal God,and Jesus is not Lord and Savior,but a good teacher in spiritual evolution,and an ascended master and avatar,and they too will become the same.

The man of sin will not honor the God of his fathers,and will not regard any god,but in his estate he will honor the God of forces,or the power of nature as his higher power,and will convince the world that he obtained power through nature,and evolved,and will share this power with all who follow him.

The revolution will be evolution,and no personal God,for they believe people are still evolving allowing the man of sin to deceive them presenting them with a better scenario for mankind of greatness,and peace.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#9
Evolution evolved from Darwin's theory of natural selection. Christians have been taught to compromise and accommodate evolution through the idea that evolution is the process through which God created all things.

Darwin did not speculate on how life began. The big bang theory attempts to explain where the universe has its origins.

The great transgression is that scientists have accepted the theory as fact without scientific proof. Speculation has now become fact in the minds of those who are so smart they now know more than God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Sep 25, 2017
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#10
I listened a debate tonight Richard Dawkins vs. John Lennox do we need G-d to be moral and to do good?

What does this "drive" come from?


I have chose to ask this question because of how many people on here believe in evolution...
Atheists don't like to admit it, but without God, there is nothing to measure the difference between good and evil, moral and immoral.

They can argue good is about not inflicting pain on others, but then some pain can be in our best interest, such as discipline, or a life saving medical operation. They can argue good is not about harming others, but then is it wrong to harm an animal to eat, or even a tree?

The atheist position is a logically inconsistent one, which is why the leading atheists spend so much time trying to justify this one.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
I listened a debate tonight Richard Dawkins vs. John Lennox do we need G-d to be moral and to do good?

What does this "drive" come from?


I have chose to ask this question because of how many people on here believe in evolution...
Without God, there is no universe, no space, no time, no planets, no suns, no life, no heart, no lungs, no reproduction, no vegetables, no nothing.

So kind have to go with, "Yeah, we need God!"

(And, even evolutionary Christians would have to go this route.)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,625
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#12
we are nothing without God -

- there is no existence without Him.


modern physics is beginning to reveal exactly that: '
the observer effect' - who alone can observe all that is, the whole of the heavens and the earth, over all time?

the Lord sees all things, and the wave functions of all things collapse, bowing before Him.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#13
There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.

If we being evil know how to give good gifts unto our children.......

Why callest thou me good? There is NONE GOOD SAVE GOD

Do these not these verses speak loud and clear..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,625
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#14
evolution is a mechanism of physical development.

ethics and morality - goodness and evil - wisdom and foolishness - these are not physical things. they have nothing to do with any kind of mechanism of physical development, because they are not developed by physical means, though they are expressed through physical actions.

this makes physical evolution and morality wholly disconnected topics: neither mutually exclusive or inclusive.

without even watching/hearing the dialogue, i can guess that Dawkins probably framed his entire conversation under a false assumption - that consciousness is a physical property. was that assumption challenged?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#15
Well being moral is common knowledge however most people don't really care about being moral and though there are moral people in this world if we really did evolve from monkeys where did what is moral come from? One could argue that people developed what is moral over time or by instinct perhaps but that still doens't explain what morality came from.

Perhaps we don't need God to be moral but we need someone to show us what being moral is, even as advanced as humans are we cannot simply come to an understanding of something without first being taught
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
218
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#16
Well being moral is common knowledge however most people don't really care about being moral and though there are moral people in this world if we really did evolve from monkeys where did what is moral come from? One could argue that people developed what is moral over time or by instinct perhaps but that still doens't explain what morality came from.

Perhaps we don't need God to be moral but we need someone to show us what being moral is, even as advanced as humans are we cannot simply come to an understanding of something without first being taught

This is perfect... Can you have morality without good or evil? How would anyone know what good or evil is unless it came from somewhere? So did there have to be a good or bad law giver?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
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#17
This is perfect... Can you have morality without good or evil? How would anyone know what good or evil is unless it came from somewhere? So did there have to be a good or bad law giver?
True, without a role model of some kind we might have instead thought killing people and being wicked in every way was what being moral was.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,672
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#18
Evolution evolved from Darwin's theory of natural selection. Christians have been taught to compromise and accommodate evolution through the idea that evolution is the process through which God created all things.

...
The concept of evolution existed long before Charles Darwin. His relative, Erasmus Darwin, was theorizing about it in the early 19th century, having gotten the idea from still-older sources. Charles' contribution was the idea of natural selection.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
218
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#19
True, without a role model of some kind we might have instead thought killing people and being wicked in every way was what being moral was.

Without Thou shalt not murder we probably would have thought I do not like your post I will hunt you down and murder you would be ok too.... Is is Torah that gives us our Western Laws....
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,328
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#20
I listened a debate tonight Richard Dawkins vs. John Lennox do we need G-d to be moral and to do good?
Well this is obviously untrue. The world in general ignores God. Richard Dawkins denies that God exists so why is he even debating this issue? And why should Christians even bother to waste time on this person?
What does this "drive" come from?
What "drive"? What drives the world is "the god of this world" (Satan).
I have chose to ask this question because of how many people on here believe in evolution...
I believe you are mistaken. Bible-believing Christians do not believe in evolution.