Matthew 12:32??? Need help understanding

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Sep 30, 2017
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#1
I was reading my bible this morning and came across this verse.

NLT Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or the world to come.

My question is, wouldn't that be about the same thing? If they are both 2 parts of the Trinity? What is the difference?
Would this be like what Jehovah's Witnesses do by saying the Holy Spirit is not a person but just "God's active force"?
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#2
Was the Holy Spirit been given yet when that was spoken?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
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#3
Was the Holy Spirit been given yet when that was spoken?
If He (the Holy Spirit) wasn't with the Apostles (before the Cross), how on earth did they do the miracles? Matt 10v1-8.

The answer is, the Holy Spirit was with the Apostles before the Lord Jesus died upon the Cross. John 14v16,17
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
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#4
The Holy Spirit fell upon Jesus when He was baptized and empowered Him to do the works of miracles and healings. And when someone gave credit to the devil instead of God, then Jesus said the words in Matt. 12:32.

As far as we know, Jesus did no miracles until the Holy Spirit came upon Him. He laid aside His divinity and identified with humans. And later told us that if we believed we would do the same works that He did (implying that we would be also be filled with the Holy Spirit).

To give credit to the enemy was speaking against the Holy Spirit in this case.
 
Sep 6, 2017
1,331
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#5
If He (the Holy Spirit) wasn't with the Apostles (before the Cross), how on earth did they do the miracles? Matt 10v1-8.

The answer is, the Holy Spirit was with the Apostles before the Lord Jesus died upon the Cross. John 14v16,17
There was only God and the Son after the resurrection Jesus sent the Holy Spirit.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
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#6
I was reading my bible this morning and came across this verse.

NLT Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or the world to come.

My question is, wouldn't that be about the same thing? If they are both 2 parts of the Trinity? What is the difference?
Would this be like what Jehovah's Witnesses do by saying the Holy Spirit is not a person but just "God's active force"?
It is the same as mourning the Holy Spirit. If you don’t like something or someone you speak against it/them. A person who mourns being holy, and makes fun of being holy, cannot spend an eternity with a Holy God.

Yes They are all one, but it is worded this way to show the root cause of the problem.
 

Innerfire89

Senior Member
Aug 23, 2017
586
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#7
They weren't just speaking against the flesh that they could see but the work of the Holy Spirit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,905
113
#8
I was reading my bible this morning and came across this verse.

NLT Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or the world to come.
Jesus of Nazareth is God, but on earth He was subject to God the Father's will and did His miracles by the power of God the Holy Spirit. But rather than believe this and repent, His enemies accused Him of doing His miracles by the power of Satan (Beelzebub). That was blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and this sin would never be forgiven. Why? Because it was a wilful rejection of the power of God and the deity of Christ. All those who reject the deity of Christ and the existence of the Trinity cannot be saved, since Jesus is God, and so is the Holy Spirit.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
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#9
If the Holy Spirit's job is to convict the sin of those who do not believe in Him, then I believe the unpardonable sin was and is not believing in Jesus Christ.

John 16:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged

Mark 3:[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? [SUP]24 [/SUP]And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. [SUP]27 [/SUP]No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: [SUP]29 [/SUP]But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

I can see why people take that reference to mean a direct insult towards the Holy Spirit, but I see it as a direct insult in not believing in Jesus Christ in spite of His work manifested through the Holy Spirit.

If the only sin that matters is the one that the Holy Spirit will convict of which is not believing in Him, then there is no other sin for the Holy Spirit to convict of.

A young girl had sinned against the Person of the Holy Spirit by saying something derogatory if I recall correctly. Then she became a Christian. She was worrying about this that she would never be forgiven and thus not saved.

I had said that by believing in Him, you are saved since it is by NEVER believing in Him is how one is never saved.

John 3:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is that sin of never believing in Him that the Holy Spirit will consider as unpardonable. Every other sin is; stupid and ignorant as those other sins are.

The poster "trofimus" had replied to what I had posted in a form of a question below:

Generally, yes.

But Christ used it in the context of pharisees saying that his power is from the evil one, even though they could not deny evidence for so many miracles.

I do not think that this can be reproduced today, specifically. We would have to witness God in flesh between us performing various kind of miracles and from the deep evil in our hearts we would have to attack him.
To which I had thanked him for sharing his opinion, and that someday we may know the answer for sure, but I do wonder if God can say something and then later change what He has said in light of the New Covenant and so I believe a sinner is saved by believing in Him and any derogatory comment made after salvation cannot be the unforgiveable sin that Jesus was talking about because of this promise.

John 6:[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And this one too;

1 John 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So I believe the unpardonable sin is not believing in Jesus Christ and at that time Jesus had said that being present, it would be applicable again if like after the millennium reign of Christ when Satan stages his last rebellion after being let out of the pit, I reckon if anybody that sided with the devil says those things about Jesus when on earth as the King of kings, would be committing the unpardonable sin then too.

Which would explain his reference to the next world....since they cannot be saved by faith in Him when they see Him.

Nobody can commit that sin now though because Jesus is not present with us to be insulting Him in unbelief by what power He does those miracles.[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#11
I was reading my bible this morning and came across this verse.

NLT Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or the world to come.

My question is, wouldn't that be about the same thing? If they are both 2 parts of the Trinity? What is the difference?
Would this be like what Jehovah's Witnesses do by saying the Holy Spirit is not a person but just "God's active force"?
Read John 16 the spirit is the one who convicts of sin. Not Jesus. If you reject Jesus the Spirit can still work on you. But if you reject the Spirit then there is nothing left.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#12
blasphemes against the Holy Spirit: it is blaspheme associated with attributing
the works Jesus did using the Holy Spirit [the power of God] to that of demons.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#13
If He (the Holy Spirit) wasn't with the Apostles (before the Cross), how on earth did they do the miracles? Matt 10v1-8.

The answer is, the Holy Spirit was with the Apostles before the Lord Jesus died upon the Cross. John 14v16,17


​The Spirit was with them, He was not in them at the times of the Gospel.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#14
If He (the Holy Spirit) wasn't with the Apostles (before the Cross), how on earth did they do the miracles? Matt 10v1-8.

The answer is, the Holy Spirit was with the Apostles before the Lord Jesus died upon the Cross. John 14v16,17
Before Pentecost the Holy Spirit would sometimes rest upon a person to empower him/her for a specific task.

After Pentecost the Holy Spirit indwells all believers continually. Before Pentecost the Apostles and the 70 were empowered without being indwelt.
 

nddreamer

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2017
142
4
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#15
"Ex.23:21---Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgression: for my name is in him."
"Eph.4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day or redemption."
The Holy Spirit is in us and hears every word we say.
"Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."
I was at an event where Benny Hinn was teaching. A man came up to me and spoke to me but I couldn't here him. He raised his voice and shouted at me, but I still couldn't hear him. He got frustrated and walked away. People around me later told me that he was asking me to pray for him. There's nothing wrong with my hearing and others around me could hear him clearly but I could not. This scared me and I'll never forget it. There are people who are so damned that their pleas for forgiveness will never be heard.
"Matt. 12:31-32 Wherefore I (Jesus) say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
"Gal.6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked."
"2 Kings 2:23-24 And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Beth-el: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."
7 is the number of the power of God - Holy Spirit
6 is the number of man
In Lev. 26:18,21,24,28, God states that he will punish men seven times if they continue to sin against him. This means he will send his power or Holy Spirit to punish them. So 7 times 6 = 42 (children). The prophet Elisha was filled with the power of God (Holy Spirit). Those who mock him mock God.
In Matt. 12:31-32, to mock or blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to mock or blaspheme God. Jesus was sent by God to be the propitiation for our sins. Whatever you say against him is forgiven.
The Son of Man is Jesus Christ who came here in the flesh and took our place in judgment for our errs. God can't see our sins because Jesus took them on himself. We are pure and righteous in our Father's eyes because of him. The Holy Spirit is the power of God, sent by God to do the will of God. In all that he does, he is God. When Jesus ascended, he was given all the power of God, but he will never do anything against the will of God. In this sense, they are all three - one.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#16
I was reading my bible this morning and came across this verse.

NLT Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or the world to come.

My question is, wouldn't that be about the same thing? If they are both 2 parts of the Trinity? What is the difference?
Would this be like what Jehovah's Witnesses do by saying the Holy Spirit is not a person but just "God's active force"?
The Bible teaches there is one God comprised of three persons: Father, Son and Spirit.

To understand this think of a cluster of grapes. Each grape in the cluster can have slightly different size, shape, and/or color; but they are still one cluster unless or until they are pulled appart.

The Father, Son , and Spirit have somewhat different attributes and/or tasks. Unlike a cluster of grapes they cannot be pulled apart.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#17
Jesus of Nazareth is God, but on earth He was subject to God the Father's will and did His miracles by the power of God the Holy Spirit. But rather than believe this and repent, His enemies accused Him of doing His miracles by the power of Satan (Beelzebub). That was blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and this sin would never be forgiven. Why? Because it was a wilful rejection of the power of God and the deity of Christ. All those who reject the deity of Christ and the existence of the Trinity cannot be saved, since Jesus is God, and so is the Holy Spirit.


I would take it a step further since the Spirit has been sent and Christ has been resurrected and asended to the Father. I would add that now those that say they are doing miracles by the Holy Spirit when they are not misacles at all, but works of the flesh. What I mean is that they claim that the Lord is doing miracles when it is all manipulation of the mind.


My point being that they play mind games to get people to say they have been healed when they really have not been. I sat in a pastors meeting where a pastor came in to tach the other pastors how to heal people, that right there shows that it was manipulation of the mind. The leader said they needed to get peoples faith running high then the miracles would start flowing because their faith would be built up. Of course there was no Scripture used to teach this
heresy. The sad part is they still hold these healing meetings once a year in the town I live in.

To me that is blasphemy in the highest order.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#18
The disciples experienced the new birth just as we do today. The happenings with Jesus has not changed, there is the new birth with water baptism, and the baptism of Holy Spirit into the body of Christ, where believers receive dunamis power to be the witnesses just as in the beginning.

Jesus breathed on them before His ascension, said " receive ye my Holy Spirit". They had doubted His Words to them about who He is, and had thought Him to be just a man. Denied by them all, He forgives, and gives them a commission.

And then He sends His Holy Spirit into the world.

It is happening in the same manner today at a great rate!

God never changes. Only man.

neither does the serpent. He still lies, and men fall for his "light".
 
Sep 30, 2017
30
3
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#19
"Ex.23:21---Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgression: for my name is in him."
"Eph.4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day or redemption."
The Holy Spirit is in us and hears every word we say.
"Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."
I was at an event where Benny Hinn was teaching. A man came up to me and spoke to me but I couldn't here him. He raised his voice and shouted at me, but I still couldn't hear him. He got frustrated and walked away. People around me later told me that he was asking me to pray for him. There's nothing wrong with my hearing and others around me could hear him clearly but I could not. This scared me and I'll never forget it. There are people who are so damned that their pleas for forgiveness will never be heard.
"Matt. 12:31-32 Wherefore I (Jesus) say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
"Gal.6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked."
"2 Kings 2:23-24 And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Beth-el: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."
7 is the number of the power of God - Holy Spirit
6 is the number of man
In Lev. 26:18,21,24,28, God states that he will punish men seven times if they continue to sin against him. This means he will send his power or Holy Spirit to punish them. So 7 times 6 = 42 (children). The prophet Elisha was filled with the power of God (Holy Spirit). Those who mock him mock God.
In Matt. 12:31-32, to mock or blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to mock or blaspheme God. Jesus was sent by God to be the propitiation for our sins. Whatever you say against him is forgiven.
The Son of Man is Jesus Christ who came here in the flesh and took our place in judgment for our errs. God can't see our sins because Jesus took them on himself. We are pure and righteous in our Father's eyes because of him. The Holy Spirit is the power of God, sent by God to do the will of God. In all that he does, he is God. When Jesus ascended, he was given all the power of God, but he will never do anything against the will of God. In this sense, they are all three - one.
Thank you, that was very helpful! And an interesting read. Thanks for sharing your story!
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#20
If He (the Holy Spirit) wasn't with the Apostles (before the Cross), how on earth did they do the miracles? Matt 10v1-8.

The answer is, the Holy Spirit was with the Apostles before the Lord Jesus died upon the Cross. John 14v16,17


Wow there jb.... The Holy Spirit did not come to the Apostles until the Pentecost during the 'Feast of Weeks'. 50 days after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.


In fact, it is considered the time when the "Church" (Body of Jesus Christ) began.

Just in case you do not believe me or the Bible,, here is WIKI...https://www.google.com/search?q=feast+of+Pentecost&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 
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