When to Stop Discussing a Heresey with Someone?

Enow · Oct 4, 2017

Titus 3:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. [SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

I really need the Lord's help to withdraw from such a discussion, even though it does prompts me to reply to give those they would entice pause to confirm with Him at that throne of grace from following after them with no discernment.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: [SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;............[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Matthew 18:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. [SUP]12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? [SUP]13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

After excommunication or withdrawing, we can have confidence that the Lord will get those lost sheep of His, even if they do wind up being left behind at the pre trib rapture event as excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Better believe God will excommunicate unrepented saved believers living in sin or practicing heresey. at the time of the rapture.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: [SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Again, I confess I need the Lord's help to not "argue" with those that are subverted, but I do want to give scripture to help warn those that are thinking about what they are preaching to see just cause for why they should not follow blindly after it.[SUB][SUP]
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7seasrekeyed · Oct 4, 2017

good question

first off, I am not convinced that everything a person may think is heresy, is, in fact, heresy. Actual heresy would be to disagree with the basic doctrines of the Bible...such as no Trinity, or Jesus is not the only way to salvation

many people will argue over the spiritual gifts...I don't think that is heresy, since there is no requirement regarding salvation in that matter

there are certain situations in these forums that are actual heresy but I would advise a person not to call someone a heretic or say they are not saved. this is a forum and no one is going to be excommunicated...banned maybe, but even then we are not the final judge

I would say you really and absolutely just cannot even have a discussion with some people because they will attempt to draw you into personal arguments rather than stick to the op. in that case, I would attempt to turn that situation around and/or ignore the personal side or say let's stick to the op etc

if after several attempts they insist on twisting what you say, get ugly or accuse you of attacking them...when in fact they have attacked you and won't quit...then I would just withdraw. in certain cases, I would report a post because some people actually try to get you banned by lying or exaggerating...even though their fake claims are visible to everyone

when someone insists on teaching (even though this is not a teaching platform) or insists on believing what is plainly not true, it is almost impossible to demonstrate, even from scripture, that what they believe is simply not biblical

I think some people actually like to argue...honing their debate skills or whatever...but some are truly mixed up and get hurt and take things personally.

either way, if you find yourself loosing your peace and being disturbed in your spirit, my suggestion would be to withdraw

Muzungu256 · Oct 4, 2017

when i get bored of arguing

gb9 · Oct 4, 2017

when someone just refuses to use or even consider things that are very clearly Biblical.

IamWhoIam · Oct 4, 2017

Probably the world thought Noah was speaking herasy, though it's sound like the word came from hear say. Maybe not but it is alittle similar in saying it, lol

seed_time_harvest · Oct 4, 2017

This IS the Internet and there are all type denominations here and CC has laid down the rules for members who want to participate In a discussion.

Dino246 · Oct 4, 2017

While at times, for the sake of one's own peace, it is worthwhile to withdraw from a discussion at least for a time, there are a few things to consider:

- not everyone who disagrees with you is a heretic, or even wrong, necessarily;
- you can probably learn something from every discussion, even if it's the meaning of a word or principle of truth;
- your reaction to someone's disagreement says more about you than it does about them;
- none of us has the corner on truth; we all have much to learn;
- if you're going to quote Titus 3:9-11, consider that the other person may quote it at you with equal confidence;
- frustration with someone's non-acceptance of your view does not mean that person is in error, but that you disagree.

If you (and I don't mean this personally to anyone) choose to withdraw from a discussion, do so quietly, without throwing shade at others, even obliquely. Doing the latter is akin to throwing the game table and scattering the play pieces just because you're losing. A simple, "I'm choosing to withdraw from this discussion" is the most that is needed. No explanation required.

Enow · Oct 4, 2017

This is not directed towards any one, but adding reference for why one should stop discussing with someone when obviously they are not hearing nor desiring to listen to understand what it is you are saying.

Proverbs 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.

When correcting heresy, those in the right addresses that heresy and explain away those verses that those who apply wrongly seem to be in their defense, and yet those in the wrong do not explain away every verse against their heresy but simply gloss over them as if God did not really meant that and yet they leave it alone because they do not know what else He had meant or they just simply say it does not mean that without actually explaining what it actually does mean.

Jesus is still Lord and I need His help to walk away from someone obviously not addressing all the references of my concerns that proves they are applying the scripture wrong.

Blain · Oct 4, 2017

gb9 said:

Ya but it's this kind of train of thought that causes such discord to begin with. I mean how many people attack others here simply because others refuse to consider what is (very clearly biblical) when it in fact is not clearly biblical? Sadly I think we allow our version and our understanding of the truth to be the cause of the discord we see so often.

Our views and our understanding may seem like something is very clearly biblical but then again a deluded person will not see or understand their deluded and an insane person does not realize they are insane. And honestly I think people just like to argue and debate for the sake of arguing and debating, I think some people just enjoy that high that comes from a heated debate. I mean I myself have experienced it when your in a heated and fiery debate your adrenaline rushes and you find it extremely difficult to leave the discussion because your in way to deep and just wait for the response with eagerness so that you can continue the onslaught.
I have been there but I saw what it was doing to me and how it was affected others and so I began to question my reason and motive for being in such a debate and what to do and how to act if I am ever caught in a war like that. Many times people just won't listen a lot of times there isn't anything you can say nor any scripture you can show them that will change their attitude or help them to understand where you are coming and in those instances one must have both the wisdom and the maturity to shake the dust off their feet and walk away

Dino246 · Oct 4, 2017

Enow said:

Again, quoting damning verses and calling "heresy" against someone can go both ways. Save it for those who reject Jesus as Lord, or who battle against the core doctrines of the faith.

Of course anyone who believes they are correct will use such reasoning, but that doesn't mean they are correct. Once someone has demonstrated a fatal flaw in another's position, there is no need to continue on to explain anything else.

Frankly, it doesn't sound like you are actually looking for help on this matter. It sounds more like you're trying to garner emotional support for your position, whatever it is.

Regarding your "paragraph" beginning with "When correcting heresy"... if you are unable to read a sentence aloud easily without needing a breath in the middle, the sentence is much too long. Your extremely long sentences make you less understandable. There is no need in include every nuance of an argument in a single sentence.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 4, 2017

Enow said:

The time to withdraw is when further discussion is unprofitable. There will always be people who resist the truth.

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. (2 Tim 3:8).

Enow · Oct 4, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

I agree.

1 John 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth......[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. [SUP]28 [/SUP]And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I know in according to the scripture reference in the OP, they are still saved but unless they depart from iniquity they run the risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

I am at risk too if I keep beating them over the head with it. I have to apply faith that His sheep will not follow them nor that stranger's voice which is what tongues without interpretation is as vain and profane babbling nonsense found in the world.

Luke 12:[SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? [SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? [SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; [SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. [SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. [SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Pray for me, my brother, that the Lord will forgive me for going above and beyond when it is His work and help me to leave them in His hands.

I feel like Sam Becket in that episode on Quantum Leap when he was home for the first time trying to prevent his older brother from going off to Vietnam and at the end of that basketball episode, he was still to die in Vietnam and I just feel for Sam reaching out & calling for his brother but too late... he got quantum leaped outta there.

I can only hope in His mercy that He will take me out too even though I know they are still His and He is faithful in keeping their souls in well doing while they get left behind to suffer the coming fire on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation.

SovereignGrace · Oct 4, 2017

[h=2]When to Stop Discussing a Heresey with Someone?[/h]
When they say, "I have a word from God...."

Blain · Oct 4, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

lol I can see it now Ahem... Thus saith the Lord thou will cease all arguments against my servant who speaks the truth and is infallible in both understanding and knowledge of the scriptures and should ye continue to make vain attempts to prove thyself right ye shall know the shame of which thy shoulders shall bear and in accordance of the bdf ye shall be mocked and name called and will be attacked by all merit of verses that were carefully cherry picked for such this occasion.

Enow · Oct 21, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

We all do.. when we quote from the scripture.

Enow · Oct 21, 2017

Blain said:

Cherry picking can be proven when other parts of scripture testifies to the contrary; and since scripture cannot go against scripture, then those cherry picking verses are being misread and thus misapplied.

Example of an issue at BDF: The Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His own intercessions which John 16:13 in all Bibles versions testify of, even though errant modern Bibles has Romans 8:26-27 to the contrary except for the KJV.

That means cherry picking verses out of context of 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to prove that one can use tongues for private use and somehow benefit from it when they do not know what that tongue is doing is the epitome of example for cherry picking that runs against scripture and the truth in His words.

Paul set the precedent for the manifestations of the Spirit was to profit the body withal in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter; and he explained that it is not for individual use unless the eye says to the rest of the body of Christ that they have no need of them.

Those cherry picking verses about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter is the same tongue spoken about thru out that chapter as needing interpretation because it is not a stand alone gift for any tongue speaker to benefit from unless it is interpreted so that that tongue will be fruitful to the tongue speaker. That is why Paul was comparing tongues against prophesy to show why prophesy is the gift to seek after whenever any believer is zealous for spiritual gifts.

And since private tongues has been associated with the world's supernatural tongue as found in other religions, idolatry, occult, and cults in christianity, it should be no wonder why it is after the workings of Satan as it could very well serve as the ecumenical means for that one world religion during the great tribulation; mystery Babylon.

The church at Thyatira has been associated with uttering the depths of Satan for which they speak and so the falling away from the faith has occurred as saved believers are believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation after a sign of tongues or other sensational signs in the flesh which are confusions which God is not the author of.

That is the strong delusion that God will permit for believing that lie that one can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.

Since God the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer, what need for tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people to be turned around by the Holy Spirit to utter His own intercessions in babbling nonsense which John 16:13 in all Bibles says that He cannot do that?

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

To give tongues without interpretation as babbling nonsense is NOT showing unto the tongue speakers or unto any others for that matter, which is why it is not of Him at all.

Anyway, regardless of the accusations of cherry picking among the BDF, only God can help those in error to see themselves as cherry picking, which is why eventually, He has to even help those that share this truth to know when those astray are subverted that refuse to hear correction...to walk away from the discussion, and leave them in God's hands.

John146 · Oct 21, 2017

Proverbs 26
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Enow · Oct 21, 2017

John146 said:

Still....

Matthew 18:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP] 13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP] 17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.[SUP] 24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,[SUP] 25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Titus 3:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. [SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

He has led me not to despise the little ones that have gone astray but I believe I have gone overboard in trying to reason with them and thus I acknowledge my need of the Lord to help me withdraw to not treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still.

Thanks for sharing the scripture.

Ellsworth1943 · Oct 21, 2017

When the discussing stops and the foolishness begins.

Enow · Oct 21, 2017

Ellsworth1943 said:

I reckon when correcting an error in a discussion by the scripture is rejected, then foolishness is exposed in the heretic.

When to Stop Discussing a Heresey with Someone?

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