Multiple threads on tongues, none on all spiritual gifts

[Nehemiah6]

Let's face it. There is not a single Christian who would not love to speak a foreign language fluently without having to spend hours and hours learning that language. But that is not what is happening today, and so we have multiple threads on tongues. However, those threads should really say "languages" {"tongues" is archaic for "languages").

As a result, all the other spiritual gifts are put on the back burner or ignored altogether. And that is what Paul was trying to address when he wrote an entire chapter on the abuse of tongues. At that time prophecy was a prevalent gift in the churches, since the NT had not been completed. So Paul said he would rather speak five words of prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues. There you have it!

There are several passages which list the spiritual gifts, and every Christian should have at least one of these gifts. But at the same time, we should keep in mind that some gifts -- signs, wonders, and miracles -- were for the time when the apostles were present on earth ((Heb 2:1-4 for the Apostolic Age) while other gifts continued and will continue. So what gifts should we be looking for within the churches, and what gifts should we be personally manifesting?

1. Evangelists

2. Pastors

3. Teachers

4. Helps

5. Governments

6. Faith (this is not saving faith, but above and beyond what we all have)

7. Words of wisdom

8. Words of knowledge

9. Discerning of spirits

10. Agape love (the greatest gift of all)

 

[Blain]

Well the gift of tongues is speaking another language yes but that is only part of it. The gift of tongues has actual power in it, the words spoken have power in them and I know from experience. Not from speaking tongues but being in the presence of it, The spirit is alive and when a person is speaking real tongues it isn't uncommon for the holy spirit to be profound in how everyone around the tongues is affected.

When I was in the presence of actual tongues I could feel the holy spirit in the words alone even though I didn't understand them I was filled with this-well I don't know how else to describe it except for the word power it was like a combination of holiness life love and power all wrapped up into one and though I couldn't see it I sensed a blazing fire all around.

People discard such things but there are those who have experienced the real deal first hand, I honestly don't know why I am always having such experiences when others have never known the supernatural side and power of God like that but it sure does give perspective to topics like this at least it does for me.

As for the other gifts you mentioned I agree they are all important but I like how you mentioned agape love as the most important because that is so true and ironically though it's the most important it also the most lacking

 

[Waggles]

while other gifts continued and will continue. So what gifts should we be looking for within the churches, and what gifts should we be personally manifesting?

Given that the greater majority of Christians are mainstream with a lot of peculiar to America style
churches then most Christians are not filled with the indwelling Holy Spirit and therefore
the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit are not available nor present for such.

No Pentecost gospel no Holy Spirit.

 

[posthuman]

aye,

where are the threads on interpretation of tongues?

 

[posthuman]

There are several passages which list the spiritual gifts, and every Christian should have at least one of these gifts.

"the" spiritual gifts . . .

at least one of "these" gifts . . .


. . . so you believe these lists are meant to be comprehensive?

can you show me how the text supports that? because i've never thought that any instance of a list of gifts in scripture was intended to be a complete catalog.

thanks

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Let's face it. There is not a single Christian who would not love to speak a foreign language fluently without having to spend hours and hours learning that language. But that is not what is happening today, and so we have multiple threads on tongues. However, those threads should really say "languages" {"tongues" is archaic for "languages").

As a result, all the other spiritual gifts are put on the back burner or ignored altogether. And that is what Paul was trying to address when he wrote an entire chapter on the abuse of tongues. At that time prophecy was a prevalent gift in the churches, since the NT had not been completed. So Paul said he would rather speak five words of prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues. There you have it!

There are several passages which list the spiritual gifts, and every Christian should have at least one of these gifts. But at the same time, we should keep in mind that some gifts -- signs, wonders, and miracles -- were for the time when the apostles were present on earth ((Heb 2:1-4 for the Apostolic Age) while other gifts continued and will continue. So what gifts should we be looking for within the churches, and what gifts should we be personally manifesting?

1. Evangelists

2. Pastors

3. Teachers

4. Helps

5. Governments

6. Faith (this is not saving faith, but above and beyond what we all have)

7. Words of wisdom

8. Words of knowledge

9. Discerning of spirits

10. Agape love (the greatest gift of all)

1-5 are the gift ministries used for service. 6-9 are manifestation of the Spirit - Manifestations are not gifts nor are gifts manifestations. 10 - Is the love of God - the greatest love of all and is inherent in the divine nature of all born again believers.

 

[Muzungu256]

I honestly don't know why I am always having such experiences when others have never known the supernatural side and power of God like that

maybe its bcuz ur special........ maybe bcuz u live holier than others i cant say since i dont know u but maybe thats it u see.

 

[Dino246]

I have no issue with discussing any or all of the gifts. I think there are several threads on tongues (or languages, if you prefer) because there are people who feel strongly about the issue. That's usually the impetus behind thread creation. One may wonder why there isn't a multitude of threads on the cause of Rachel's death, the rebellion of Vashti, or the exact location of the stigmata on Jesus' upper extremities. It's a discussion forum, so we discuss what catches and holds our attention. There is no obligation to have a "balanced" discussion.

 

[Joidevivre]

In your list of gifts, you forgot the gift of healing (I Cor. 12:9)

 

[Nehemiah6]

In your list of gifts, you forgot the gift of healing (I Cor. 12:9)

Actually I did not "forget" that but I did omit it, and here's the reason:

13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:13-20).

Had the gift of healing continued, every church with regenerated Christians would have at least one healer, and there would be no need for the"prayer of faith" of the elders. But since James knew by divine revelation that the healers would be gone, he provided these instructions.

 

[Nehemiah6]

1-5 are the gift ministries used for service. 6-9 are manifestation of the Spirit - Manifestations are not gifts nor are gifts manifestations. 10 - Is the love of God - the greatest love of all and is inherent in the divine nature of all born again believers.

As far as Paul is concerned, gifts are manifestations, and manifestations are gifts, so I don't know why you would disagree.

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. (1 Cor 12:4)

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. (1 Cor 12:7).

Then he goes on to list the gifts, with gifts of ministry and other gifts all together:

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

 

[Nehemiah6]

because i've never thought that any instance of a list of gifts in scripture was intended to be a complete catalog.

Well the complete "catalog" becomes evident when all the passages listing gifts are brought together. And beyond what is listed, we should not imagine that God would hide from us other gifts when He actually gives us lists of gifts. As far as "comprehensive", one would need to include all the sign gifts (such as healings, miracles, etc), but they are not for today.

 

[garee]

We walk by the unseen...( faith to faith). Seeing there is no such thing as a “sign gift” seeking after a signs and wonders gospel shows the gift of prophecy (God's interpretation to us) is made to not effect. Signs and philosophies of men as the wisdom of this world are for those who believe not prophecy (rebels). In both cases focusing the attention of the seeker as outward evidence they feel saved makes the cross without effect.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co 1:22

 

[Nehemiah6]

Seeing there is no such thing as a “sign gift”...

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (Mk 16:17).

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:4).

 

[FlSnookman7]

maybe its bcuz ur special........ maybe bcuz u live holier than others i cant say since i dont know u but maybe thats it u see.

Since it seems you desire the gifts but do not yet seem to have them maybe a "holier lifestyle" would help you. Actually since holy simply means set apart it would probably be more beneficial to you to consult God's Word...


Hebrews 11:6 6 [FONT=&quot]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

Matthew 21:22 [/FONT]And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

I know there are those here who will say those verses have nothing to do with receiving the gifts mentioned but I would think those who would say that are not experiencing said gifts. Instead of implying that those of us who have spoken in tongues, had visions, experienced healing or any other gift are "weird" just because God has not chosen you to yet receive them shouldn't you be joyful that God is still active in some Christian's lives and be hopeful that He may yet decide to give you one or more of these gifts as well?

Stop trying to prove what God can not do and step out in faith....you may yet be surprised. Shalom.

 

[Dino246]

Actually I did not "forget" that but I did omit it, and here's the reason: ...
Had the gift of healing continued, every church with regenerated Christians would have at least one healer, and there would be no need for the"prayer of faith" of the elders. But since James knew by divine revelation that the healers would be gone, he provided these instructions.

Why would every church have a healer? What is the difference, in your view, between the gift of healing, and the healing that comes about by prayer?

Why, if James allegedly knew that "healers would be gone", did he make absolutely no reference to that knowledge? I call that eisegesis; you're arguing from complete scriptural silence.

As far as "comprehensive", one would need to include all the sign gifts (such as healings, miracles, etc), but they are not for today.

I would encourage you to obtain and read Craig Keener's book Miracles.

Why do you claim that miracles are not for today? What is your definition of "miracle"?

We walk by the unseen...( faith to faith). Seeing there is no such thing as a “sign gift” seeking after a signs and wonders gospel shows the gift of prophecy (God's interpretation to us) is made to not effect. Signs and philosophies of men as the wisdom of this world are for those who believe not prophecy (rebels). In both cases focusing the attention of the seeker as outward evidence they feel saved makes the cross without effect.

By what reasoning do you come to the conclusion that belief in the ongoing manifest operation of so-called "sign gifts" is the same thing as "seeking after a sign"?

 

[BenFTW]

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (Mk 16:17).

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:4).

You'll notice that verse differentiates between signs and "gifts of the Holy Ghost." I wonder why? Maybe because there is no sign gift(s) as Garee said.

 

[Blain]

maybe its bcuz ur special........ maybe bcuz u live holier than others i cant say since i dont know u but maybe thats it u see.

No I am not any more special than anyone else and I don't live holier than others

 

[Blain]

As far as Paul is concerned, gifts are manifestations, and manifestations are gifts, so I don't know why you would disagree.

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. (1 Cor 12:4)

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. (1 Cor 12:7).

Then he goes on to list the gifts, with gifts of ministry and other gifts all together:

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Yes gifts are manifestations of the holy spirit but there is a difference between a persons role in the church and a persons gifts in the church

 

[BenFTW]

Why would every church have a healer? What is the difference, in your view, between the gift of healing, and the healing that comes about by prayer?

Why, if James allegedly knew that "healers would be gone", did he make absolutely no reference to that knowledge? I call that eisegesis; you're arguing from complete scriptural silence.



I would encourage you to obtain and read Craig Keener's book Miracles.

Why do you claim that miracles are not for today? What is your definition of "miracle"?




By what reasoning do you come to the conclusion that belief in the ongoing manifest operation of so-called "sign gifts" is the same thing as "seeking after a sign"?

You know Dino, I've often asked the Lord that question. Want to know the answer? He didn't give me one, except He said one thing on the matter. Be moved with compassion. What does it matter if the healing occurs through prayer or the gift of the Holy Spirit? God is glorified, so simply move in compassion and whether the healing happens as a result of a gift or God answering a petition may all give Him praise. I think the end result is what is important here.