the ten commandments

[followjesus]

As I see it:

The issue is that the 10 Commandments, like the Law, can't be kept to God's standard by our own efforts. Regardless how much we might agree with them we understand that in our own strength we are unable to obey them.
Jesus kept them perfectly on our behalf; so we are free from the consequence of our failings. The Holy spirit within us works to cause us both to will and to do His good pleasure. Our obedience comes not from our conscious effort; but, rather, from The Spirit working in and through us. We need not have the 10 commandments on our mind because the Holy Spirit puts them into our behavior.

We need not have the 10 commandments on our mind because the Holy Spirit puts them into our behavior."


amen that is How we need to perceive the Gospel of the Kingdom spoken By the Lord Jesus. if we see it in that principle you just illistrated, there is Power in Gods Word to work in Our Minds, Hearts and consciences and ultimately what changes Our Behavior is those things are Kept in us, in Our thiughts and ponderings. the More we consider what it really is that God is actually saying in all of His word, and then realize that His word is what creates everything, we then realize what the Word of Christ is doing in us because it has the same creative power in Our Minds and Hearts as when God said " Let there Be Light...and Out of darkness light shined forth"


Gods Word works in us who believe the same way on the principle of Faith, Our Minds and Hearts are changed through the Gospel, so that the Law Looks correct to us and we no longer have the Minset of Hireb without spirit and fear Gods Word is out to destroy us....but through Christ we gain the perseption of a Child of God with a pure and clean Heart made so By His Word. because as Many forget Jesus want Just another preacher or prophet He was and is set apart. and so is His word

john 3 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

John is saying He is speaking things from above, from Heaven and JKesus says this a few times also. Jesus teachings His wosdom is to cleanse our Hearts and win them back to God through His sacrifice, cleanse them with His word, and sanctify them unto the good works of the children of God. when you go first through the gospel with that principle, the Law changes entirely what was restrictive before and seemsed oppressive, Becomes simply the right things to do and the right way to do it. because of Jesus Our inner self is cleansed and we perceive the Law having eyes to see and Ears to Hear that the Ot folks failed to Have lacking the spirit we receive through Jesus and His Gospel.


the renewed Mind is a counter attack to what satan did to mans Mind in eden He twisted our Mind and our perception of Gods intention and word toward us. Jesus part of His role is to change Our Minds Back through the truth, the spirit of truth that is found in the Gospel. it is the destroying of the devils work John discusses. the devila work in man cam through Our Minds, He introduced Doubt calling Gods Word into question, He then distorts the truth of Gods Word, and offers the thought that God is keeping something good from man.

the result is the Mindset of Horeb where when God speaks the people beg not to Hear or they will die." that of course illistrates the nature of fallen adam who heard Gods Word in the Garden, became afraid and Hid realizing His shame. this is what sin caused in us, it seperated Man from His original relationship with God, through deceotion, Fear, temptation, sin and death. but on the Other habd its all part of the plan because " fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" Fear came first when man fell into temoptation, then the law comes to offer wisdom, then the Gospel comes for salvation and provision and restoration to the time before Law when mans nature was made after the Image of God

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 3:1-2, “What then is the advantage of the Yehuḏi, or what is the value of the circumcision? Much in every way! Because firstly indeed, that they were entrusted with the Words of Yah.”

Proverbs 22:6, “Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.”

Ephesians 6:4, “Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of Yah.”

Psalm 119:9-16, “How would a young man cleanse his path? To guard it according to Your word. I have sought You with all my heart; Let me not stray from Your commands! I have treasured up Your word in my heart, That I might not sin against You. Blessed are You, O יהוה! Teach me Your laws. With my lips I have recounted All the right-rulings of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your witnesses, As over all riches. I meditate on Your orders, And regard Your ways. I delight myself in Your laws; I do not forget Your word.”

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

 

[beta]

As I see it:

The issue is that the 10 Commandments, like the Law, can't be kept to God's standard by our own efforts. Regardless how much we might agree with them we understand that in our own strength we are unable to obey them.
Jesus kept them perfectly on our behalf; so we are free from the consequence of our failings. The Holy spirit within us works to cause us both to will and to do His good pleasure. Our obedience comes not from our conscious effort; but, rather, from The Spirit working in and through us. We need not have the 10 commandments on our mind because the Holy Spirit puts them into our behavior.

Once we receive God's Holy Spirit help is at hand and we no longer do anything in our own strength....but even so, change comes only slowly because the new way has to be grounded and absorbed by the 'new man - the new Creation....just like any new human Baby takes time to 'come together during gestation...that is the stage we are at while still in this body.

 

[MattforJesus]

Paul said we do not void out the law,because of faith,but we establish the law,which the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,the laws of love moral laws.

Love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jesus told the rich man that in order to inherit eternal life he had to keep the 6 laws that have to do with loving people,and to sell all he had,and give to the poor,which the early Church had all things common,they shared,and they sold all that was not a necessity,and gave to the poor saints,so that none lacked their needs.

The ten commandments are love towards God,and people,so they must always be obeyed.

Out of faith hope,and charity,charity,love in action,is greater than faith,for everything stems from love,and faith,and hope,will pass away when the saints are with Jesus,but charity will go on forever.

The Bible says faith works through love,because love is greater than faith,and everything stems from love.

No love,no faith.

Paul said that he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity then he is nothing,and if a person teaches that God blesses with money,and material things for their wants,above their needs withdraw yourself from them,having food,and clothing,be content,and if they believe God blesses with their wants then they have erred from the faith,for the love of money is the root of all evil for it violates loving people,because it does not help the poor and needy.

James said if people do not have charity then their faith is dead,for a person is justified by works,charity,love in action,and not by faith alone.

John said if they do not have charity,then the love of God does not dwell in them,for love not in word,but in deed,and in truth.

Paul said charity does not think an evil thought,and rejoices in the truth,and does not rejoice in iniquity,and abstains from sin by the Spirit,and is not selfish,and not arrogant.

The Bible says God is not mocked,for whatever a person sows that shall they reap,whether to the flesh,corruption,or to the Spirit,eternal life.Do not be deceived.

The Lord knows them that are His,and let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but some do not have the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.

Do not depart from the living God,by the deceitfulness of sin.

Blessed is the man that endures temptation,does not sin,for he shall receive eternal life.

If a person does not continue in the goodness of God,they will be cut off.

If a person is holding unto sin then the sacrifice of Jesus cannot wash it away,for God will not take away what a person holds unto.

Abstain from fleshy pleasures that war against the soul,and lay aside every weight of sin that so easily besets us.

Jesus said whatever is in the heart is what comes out,so if they sin,or hold unto sin,then that is what is in their heart,for it is our thoughts,and actions,that define who we are.

Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and love does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and only goes by their needs,and helps the poor and needy.

To not comply is not love,and then there is no faith,for charity is greater than faith,and faith works through love.

As far as saved by works,it can be said it means be led of the Spirit,and we know we have to be led of the Spirit to be saved,for a Spirit led life is not under the law,and that is because they are not sinning,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution,and is a son of God.

People that say not saved by works,if they do not do those works will they say they are saved,and if they say no,then it is obvious that we have to have works to be saved.

If they say but if we have the Spirit we will do the works of the Spirit,then how did the people at the first,and fifth Church,in Revelation lack works,which Jesus told them they were fallen,and to repent,or He would go against them,and Paul,James,and John,all wrote to have charity,love in action,or they are not right with God for they lack love,and faith.

So the Bible clearly states that people can lack that have received the Spirit,and they have been saved,for Jesus told them to repent,and Paul,James,and John,tells them to do right,and not lack.

If we do lack then that means we are not led of the Spirit,and if we have a habit of lacking then how are we saved.

It is not faith alone,but it is charity alone,love in action,for which faith is applied when a person truly has love.

So I do not want to hear faith alone,for if they do not comply then they do not love,and they have no faith.

If they say they can never fall,and cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and believes the prosperity Gospel,how do people think they will conduct themselves,which it is most likely they will not conduct themselves properly as far as majority,for they think they can hold unto sin,and go by their wants,and still be right with God,so the flesh will take advantage of that.

And of course we witness it in society the hypocrisy,and a lot live in sin as a daily habit.

The Bible says give no offense in anything,so the ministry be not blamed,but their hypocrisy is causing many to not accept Christianity,and do they think that God would allow them to be hypocritical,and it is alright,if it is turning people away from Christianity.

For whose side are they on,to bring people to Christ,or repel people from Christ,but then again they will probably say it does not matter their lifestyle,for if they were chosen in the beginning then they will come to Christ regardless.

But God said He commands all people to repent,and wants all people to repent,and come to the knowledge of the truth,and be saved,and the Spirit and bride say,anybody can have that salvation,and Jesus lights every person that is born in to this world.

God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have salvation in the beginning,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as thought they already happened,like the Lamb was slain,and the prophets blood shed,and all the works were finished,from the foundation of the world,although they were future events.

Many are called,but few are chosen,and not many wise after the flesh,not many noble,not many mighty,are called.

God does the calling,and choosing on earth,and God chose us we did not choose Him,for when God calls a person He works in their life to get them to the truth,and when they get to the door,then they have to push it open,for God's kingdom is love,but they would of not gotten to the truth without God intervening in their life,for no person calls Jesus Lord,except by the Holy Ghost,and no person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

And that pushing open the door is to understand to abstain from sin by the Spirit,and go by their needs,and help the poor and needy,which not everybody pushes the door to truth,which is why Jesus said not all who call Him Lord will dwell with Him,for they were workers of iniquity,and they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

We have to have works,charity,love in action,for if we lack then we are not led of the Spirit,and we do not love properly to have faith apply.

No love,no faith.

Love God,abstain from sin.Love people,do no harm to them,and help the poor and needy.

If you lack Jesus says to repent.

It is not faith only,it is love only,for everything stems for love,and sin is a lack of love.

Jesus said concerning the end time,since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold,for sin is a lack of love,and causes a lack of love between people,because they are selfish,and arrogant,and the Bible says the last generation shall devour the poor from off the earth,and the needy among men,and the seventh Church said they were rich,and increased with goods,and had need of nothing,but were not right with God.

We have to have works,for if we lack habitually then we do not love properly,and are not led of the Spirit.

 

[Ahwatukee]

As I see it:

The issue is that the 10 Commandments, like the Law, can't be kept to God's standard by our own efforts. Regardless how much we might agree with them we understand that in our own strength we are unable to obey them.
Jesus kept them perfectly on our behalf; so we are free from the consequence of our failings. The Holy spirit within us works to cause us both to will and to do His good pleasure. Our obedience comes not from our conscious effort; but, rather, from The Spirit working in and through us. We need not have the 10 commandments on our mind because the Holy Spirit puts them into our behavior.

Well said MarcR,

The ten commandments are apart of the law and we are not under the law. We follow Christ and are lead by the Spirit. If we fail at any of those things we confess them and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. The ten commandments don't even come to mind when I start my day, for Jesus and the word of God is who and what I am meditating on.

We should be trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, completely and fully and not by anything that we could do. If you're being led by the Spirit, you're not going to be transgressing the ten commandments. But if you do, confess them and move on.

We are simply not under the law, but under a new covenant by which we come near to God through faith and not by our own efforts. We should not be taking any credit for salvation whatsoever by our good works, for they are a result of faith and the indwelling of the Spirit and that for the glory of God and not to obtain or maintain salvation.

 

[Studyman]

=hornetguy;3306847]Really

? Then why did he give us all these clarifications, with NEW standards of behavior?

He didn't teach "NEW" standards of behavior, He just clarified what the Mainstream Church of that time had rejected and forgotten.

According to you, all we have to do is not physically murder someone, and we're righteous.

This is an untrue statement that you have no basis for making, other than fleshy anger.


Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Jesus was simply teaching, as He said He was, what the Father told Him. He taught the same as the Prophets as this scripture clearly shows. Will you be corrected?

According to you, all we have to do is refrain from the physical act of adultery, and we're righteous.

Again, out of anger you are making false accusations against a person who has simply told you the truth.

Lev. 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

Jesus knew it was not only a sin to commit the act, but a sin to think about the act. He got this teaching from His father in the Old Testament, just like He said.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Jesus didn't make up His own religion or laws or standards. He simply followed and preached what the Law and Prophets taught.

The Mainstream God of Abraham preaching leaders of that time had corrupted themselves and were teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Just as it is to this day as your post clearly shows.

According to you, we can make all kinds of vows, swearing on our mother's grave, no problem.

Again, I have made no such claim, why are you so angry that you would sin against a brother that simple speaks the truth to you?

NONE of that is true, according to Jesus.

Yes, it is not true that Jesus gave us NEW Standards of behavior. He was perfect because He didn't create new standards, traditions or doctrines. He followed His Father's perfect path perfectly and showed us how to do the same.

But I forgive you because I was also once deceived, a stranger to God and His ways. I was also snared by the man made doctrines and traditions of the Mainstream church. I tell you these things, not to offend, but out of love for the brethren. I hope God softens your heart and allows you to see the point of my post.

Thank you for the reply

 

[Studyman]

Once we receive God's Holy Spirit help is at hand and we no longer do anything in our own strength....but even so, change comes only slowly because the new way has to be grounded and absorbed by the 'new man - the new Creation....just like any new human Baby takes time to 'come together during gestation...that is the stage we are at while still in this body.

May I humbly add that Jesus called His Spirit as a "comforter" and helper.

Heb. 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

I fear that modern teaching has taken away from what this means. We work to overcome our flesh, and Jesus helps us accomplish this. He doesn't do it for us.

Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples,If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

We have our part.

Heb. 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


We have our part.

"
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

I like your post. I am reminded of Exodus 23;

29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.
30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

Great post Beta, great topic

 

[followjesus]

Paul said we do not void out the law,because of faith,but we establish the law,which the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,the laws of love moral laws.

Love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jesus told the rich man that in order to inherit eternal life he had to keep the 6 laws that have to do with loving people,and to sell all he had,and give to the poor,which the early Church had all things common,they shared,and they sold all that was not a necessity,and gave to the poor saints,so that none lacked their needs.

The ten commandments are love towards God,and people,so they must always be obeyed.

Out of faith hope,and charity,charity,love in action,is greater than faith,for everything stems from love,and faith,and hope,will pass away when the saints are with Jesus,but charity will go on forever.

The Bible says faith works through love,because love is greater than faith,and everything stems from love.

No love,no faith.

Paul said that he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity then he is nothing,and if a person teaches that God blesses with money,and material things for their wants,above their needs withdraw yourself from them,having food,and clothing,be content,and if they believe God blesses with their wants then they have erred from the faith,for the love of money is the root of all evil for it violates loving people,because it does not help the poor and needy.

James said if people do not have charity then their faith is dead,for a person is justified by works,charity,love in action,and not by faith alone.

John said if they do not have charity,then the love of God does not dwell in them,for love not in word,but in deed,and in truth.

Paul said charity does not think an evil thought,and rejoices in the truth,and does not rejoice in iniquity,and abstains from sin by the Spirit,and is not selfish,and not arrogant.

The Bible says God is not mocked,for whatever a person sows that shall they reap,whether to the flesh,corruption,or to the Spirit,eternal life.Do not be deceived.

The Lord knows them that are His,and let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but some do not have the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.

Do not depart from the living God,by the deceitfulness of sin.

Blessed is the man that endures temptation,does not sin,for he shall receive eternal life.

If a person does not continue in the goodness of God,they will be cut off.

If a person is holding unto sin then the sacrifice of Jesus cannot wash it away,for God will not take away what a person holds unto.

Abstain from fleshy pleasures that war against the soul,and lay aside every weight of sin that so easily besets us.

Jesus said whatever is in the heart is what comes out,so if they sin,or hold unto sin,then that is what is in their heart,for it is our thoughts,and actions,that define who we are.

Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and love does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and only goes by their needs,and helps the poor and needy.

To not comply is not love,and then there is no faith,for charity is greater than faith,and faith works through love.

As far as saved by works,it can be said it means be led of the Spirit,and we know we have to be led of the Spirit to be saved,for a Spirit led life is not under the law,and that is because they are not sinning,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution,and is a son of God.

People that say not saved by works,if they do not do those works will they say they are saved,and if they say no,then it is obvious that we have to have works to be saved.

If they say but if we have the Spirit we will do the works of the Spirit,then how did the people at the first,and fifth Church,in Revelation lack works,which Jesus told them they were fallen,and to repent,or He would go against them,and Paul,James,and John,all wrote to have charity,love in action,or they are not right with God for they lack love,and faith.

So the Bible clearly states that people can lack that have received the Spirit,and they have been saved,for Jesus told them to repent,and Paul,James,and John,tells them to do right,and not lack.

If we do lack then that means we are not led of the Spirit,and if we have a habit of lacking then how are we saved.

It is not faith alone,but it is charity alone,love in action,for which faith is applied when a person truly has love.

So I do not want to hear faith alone,for if they do not comply then they do not love,and they have no faith.

If they say they can never fall,and cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and believes the prosperity Gospel,how do people think they will conduct themselves,which it is most likely they will not conduct themselves properly as far as majority,for they think they can hold unto sin,and go by their wants,and still be right with God,so the flesh will take advantage of that.

And of course we witness it in society the hypocrisy,and a lot live in sin as a daily habit.

The Bible says give no offense in anything,so the ministry be not blamed,but their hypocrisy is causing many to not accept Christianity,and do they think that God would allow them to be hypocritical,and it is alright,if it is turning people away from Christianity.

For whose side are they on,to bring people to Christ,or repel people from Christ,but then again they will probably say it does not matter their lifestyle,for if they were chosen in the beginning then they will come to Christ regardless.

But God said He commands all people to repent,and wants all people to repent,and come to the knowledge of the truth,and be saved,and the Spirit and bride say,anybody can have that salvation,and Jesus lights every person that is born in to this world.

God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have salvation in the beginning,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as thought they already happened,like the Lamb was slain,and the prophets blood shed,and all the works were finished,from the foundation of the world,although they were future events.

Many are called,but few are chosen,and not many wise after the flesh,not many noble,not many mighty,are called.

God does the calling,and choosing on earth,and God chose us we did not choose Him,for when God calls a person He works in their life to get them to the truth,and when they get to the door,then they have to push it open,for God's kingdom is love,but they would of not gotten to the truth without God intervening in their life,for no person calls Jesus Lord,except by the Holy Ghost,and no person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

And that pushing open the door is to understand to abstain from sin by the Spirit,and go by their needs,and help the poor and needy,which not everybody pushes the door to truth,which is why Jesus said not all who call Him Lord will dwell with Him,for they were workers of iniquity,and they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

We have to have works,charity,love in action,for if we lack then we are not led of the Spirit,and we do not love properly to have faith apply.

No love,no faith.

Love God,abstain from sin.Love people,do no harm to them,and help the poor and needy.

If you lack Jesus says to repent.

It is not faith only,it is love only,for everything stems for love,and sin is a lack of love.

Jesus said concerning the end time,since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold,for sin is a lack of love,and causes a lack of love between people,because they are selfish,and arrogant,and the Bible says the last generation shall devour the poor from off the earth,and the needy among men,and the seventh Church said they were rich,and increased with goods,and had need of nothing,but were not right with God.

We have to have works,for if we lack habitually then we do not love properly,and are not led of the Spirit.

well said matt thanks for adding all the scripture and insight.

Faith is the essential thing, but Biblical Faith, always produces the action for example Noah believed what God said to Him about the flood...so Noah built the ark as God commanded, Noah obeyed because He believed God and Became the hier of the righteousness of faith ( Hebrews 11:7) and the abraham, the Man of Faith, He believed Gods Word to Him that promised abraham increase into a mighty nation, He believed God so He obeyed when God said " Get up and go abraham to a Land I will show you and i will make you the father of many nations and all the earth will be blessed through you"

so abraham Obeyed because He believed God, by Faith abrham obeyed, Noah obeyed. Both cases were still given by Grace and By promise of God, and Both men were told what to do, they believed and did it. bith men before the Law, wich is not of faith, but abraham and Noah, they are both of Faith and of the covenant of Faith. The Key is to believe what God says and take it as if it is God Who said it. if its a Promise Like eternal Life believe, if its a warning Like the sheep and goats believe...if its a teaching sermon ...believe. because we have to have all our faith in Jesus Christ, what He says Becomes the Word of authority in Our Heart.

Definatley there are always works that accompany faith but the thing is the Process. Look how peter explains it to the church

1 peter 1 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.


17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God."

even our Faith in God is a result of Jesus and His Word. i agree with you works are clearly something were meant to do some take it as believing in God means you never need to do a work , actually the Gospel is meant to make sinners into those who do the good works. the works that abide the law and appreciate the Law Knowing a law abider needs not fear the Law, but One who is Living contrary to its precepts, will always look to discredit the Law is to be Upheld By "Love" because Love is actions and truth, deeds, not even really what i call works but Just the right thing, Like God told cain " Just do what is right because you believe Jesus." its really as simple as that.

Jesus is the Lord, He is the One God Promised to send to speak all of His judgements to the earth and become salvation to all people. so we see that Jesus taught the Kingdom of God and Not the Mosaic Law, but Jesus taught the spirit that will keep the Law. a person who abides in the principles of Jesus, will abide in the Law of God without greivance are gripe. to look at it Like the Law is a bad thing or against us only shows the old creation still at work, because the Law is not against those Born of God. it is against those who refuse to Hear Jesus Gospel

 

[followjesus]

May I humbly add that Jesus called His Spirit as a "comforter" and helper.

Heb. 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

I fear that modern teaching has taken away from what this means. We work to overcome our flesh, and Jesus helps us accomplish this. He doesn't do it for us.

Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples,If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

We have our part.

Heb. 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


We have our part.

"
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

I like your post. I am reminded of Exodus 23;

29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.
30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

Great post Beta, great topic

amen a great post, Both Grace and truth are found in Jesus, Both " Neither do I condemn you" and " Now go and sin No More"

Both relief from the wieght of Our sins, and instructions to free us from their chains. comforter and teacher, the Holy Ghost

 

[followjesus]

=hornetguy;3306847]Really

He didn't teach "NEW" standards of behavior, He just clarified what the Mainstream Church of that time had rejected and forgotten.



This is an untrue statement that you have no basis for making, other than fleshy anger.


Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Jesus was simply teaching, as He said He was, what the Father told Him. He taught the same as the Prophets as this scripture clearly shows. Will you be corrected?



Again, out of anger you are making false accusations against a person who has simply told you the truth.

Lev. 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

Jesus knew it was not only a sin to commit the act, but a sin to think about the act. He got this teaching from His father in the Old Testament, just like He said.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Jesus didn't make up His own religion or laws or standards. He simply followed and preached what the Law and Prophets taught.

The Mainstream God of Abraham preaching leaders of that time had corrupted themselves and were teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Just as it is to this day as your post clearly shows.



Again, I have made no such claim, why are you so angry that you would sin against a brother that simple speaks the truth to you?



Yes, it is not true that Jesus gave us NEW Standards of behavior. He was perfect because He didn't create new standards, traditions or doctrines. He followed His Father's perfect path perfectly and showed us how to do the same.

But I forgive you because I was also once deceived, a stranger to God and His ways. I was also snared by the man made doctrines and traditions of the Mainstream church. I tell you these things, not to offend, but out of love for the brethren. I hope God softens your heart and allows you to see the point of my post.

Thank you for the reply

Yes, it is not true that Jesus gave us NEW Standards of behavior."

yes Jesus did Give us the standards of Behavior different from what is written in the Mosaic Law,, Jesus actually deviated from and Broke at Least One commandment of the mosaic Law regarding not condemning the sinner, but forgiving them and instructing them. thats drastically different from " the sinner must be put to death show No Mercy, no pity....

it is different Because the People it is given to are different. the Law comes to the flesh man adams seed, the gospel comes to the children Born of God. or " Born again through the word of truth"

the standards are different exp;licitly more than Once Jesus nullifies Moses word and replaces it with His Own. for instance Moses said " if your wife displeases you, give Her a divorce cerrtificate and sen Her away, you are both free to remarry, but cant later remarry each other"

thats the Law regarding marriage.

Jesus of course said you heard long ago ( what Moses said) But I tell you " if anyone divorces for any reason other than fornication, they have commited adultery, and are not free to re marry."

thats definately a new principle, Higher standard really, it is that way Because what Jesus said is Meant for the New covenant People born of the Spirit the truth, the Law as we Know was given to the rebellious sinners, the stiff necked rebels, disobedient.....

1 timothy 1: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust."


The Law of Moses was given to a very sinful and rebellious people, remember they lived 400 years in the most idolatrous nation on earth at the time, egypt, false gods were plentiful and Israel intermingled with egyptians after they were invited to live in Goshen during the great famine years. its evident it was engrained in them because as soon as Moses goes up to talk with God, the people instantly demand that aaron make them an idol to worship. this is a well Known practice of wgyptian religion, golden Idols, and festivals celebrating the god whos name is given to the idol.

the Law is the same as it is for us in society the lawbreakers, it is against them, it offends thier behavior for instance the thief would rather ther not be a lawm that says stealing is wrong and you can go to jail for x amount of time. But the exact same Law that says the same rule about stealing, the Law abider agrees with this, they work hard and appreciate the Law that says " thou shalt not steal" to all people, it protects thier property and everyone elses to have that Law because, people steal, there must Be a law that instructs us Not to.

the People in our society appreciate the Laws that rpotect thier Life from Murder, thier children, thier families and friends. those who do not Kill, they embrace the Law it is benificial to them it is meant to protect them and hold accountable the One who wrongs them. yet the same Law, this offends serial Killers it is opposed to thier will to Kill. to them this Law should not apply because it would justify and remove accountability of thier deed. yet, its simply wrong, to destroy and take someones Life its simply....wrong to do that Most would im sure agree. theft, Murder, adultery, Lying, flasely accusing and bearing witness falsely, spreading gossip, worshipping false gods....it think mostly decent folks would agree with all of those commandments and the many like them.

even the sabbath.... isnt it enough that God said to set it aside for Holy things ? One perception of the Law is to see it as oppressive " against me" this is the perception of an un repentant sinner, because it calls out thier sin, as sin in thoier Minds and Heart. so this becomes an offense of a type that this person perceives in the Law.

the Other perception of the Law, is to believe it is Gods Word and teaches us about Our Lord, His Will, His ways, His character, what He did for us in Jesus, to see it as wisdom from God, understanding we are not under its authority to Judge us guilty, we are held accountable to Jesus and Not Moses.

if we follow Jesus teachings, the Mosaic Laws Morality will be Kept because our Hearts will be right through the Knowledge of Jesus. we deal with the Lust as Jesus says, and adultery isnt an issue we need to fight against. we deal with the greed and coveting in Our Minds and Hearts, and theft, stinginess and covetousness is not an issue we need confront. if we do it Jesus way and see adultery as beginning when we embrace the thought of it, and deal with that part of it, adultery will never be something that is a struggle for us.

matthew 15 : But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


mathew 23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also"

the Gospel is all about the Motives and attitudes of Our Heart, it works through Our Heartstrings.

 

[followjesus]

Well said MarcR,

The ten commandments are apart of the law and we are not under the law. We follow Christ and are lead by the Spirit. If we fail at any of those things we confess them and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. The ten commandments don't even come to mind when I start my day, for Jesus and the word of God is who and what I am meditating on.

We should be trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, completely and fully and not by anything that we could do. If you're being led by the Spirit, you're not going to be transgressing the ten commandments. But if you do, confess them and move on.

We are simply not under the law, but under a new covenant by which we come near to God through faith and not by our own efforts. We should not be taking any credit for salvation whatsoever by our good works, for they are a result of faith and the indwelling of the Spirit and that for the glory of God and not to obtain or maintain salvation.

The ten commandments are apart of the law and we are not under the law. <<< true

romans 3:31 "Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? By no means! Instead, we uphold the Law."

also true, how do the two ponts reconcile? One says were not under the Laaw" the other says " does this mean we nullify the Law because of Faith? by no means! rather WE uphold the Law"

How is it that children born of Gods Spirit, do not see the truth of His Judgements of good and evil?


do you understand WHY we are noit under the Law? it is because we are born again of the spirit, we died to the Law, and are now born again in the spirit of God. is it your position that the Law is against children of God? or is the Law against sinners? is it offensive to those who live by the flesh desires, or to those who follow Gods Will?

we shoulod learn to understand the Laws value, and that what is written of those people, is written to teach us, Now in the Gospel. its for our Learning.



1 corinthians 10 " Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.


6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. "

romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."


2 timothy 3:And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

 

[hornetguy]

=hornetguy;3306847]Really

He didn't teach "NEW" standards of behavior, He just clarified what the Mainstream Church of that time had rejected and forgotten.



This is an untrue statement that you have no basis for making, other than fleshy anger.


Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Jesus was simply teaching, as He said He was, what the Father told Him. He taught the same as the Prophets as this scripture clearly shows. Will you be corrected?



Again, out of anger you are making false accusations against a person who has simply told you the truth.

Lev. 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

Jesus knew it was not only a sin to commit the act, but a sin to think about the act. He got this teaching from His father in the Old Testament, just like He said.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Jesus didn't make up His own religion or laws or standards. He simply followed and preached what the Law and Prophets taught.

The Mainstream God of Abraham preaching leaders of that time had corrupted themselves and were teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Just as it is to this day as your post clearly shows.



Again, I have made no such claim, why are you so angry that you would sin against a brother that simple speaks the truth to you?



Yes, it is not true that Jesus gave us NEW Standards of behavior. He was perfect because He didn't create new standards, traditions or doctrines. He followed His Father's perfect path perfectly and showed us how to do the same.

But I forgive you because I was also once deceived, a stranger to God and His ways. I was also snared by the man made doctrines and traditions of the Mainstream church. I tell you these things, not to offend, but out of love for the brethren. I hope God softens your heart and allows you to see the point of my post.

Thank you for the reply

Hmmm... sounds like a guilty dog barking first...

You keep accusing me of anger? Where in the world did you come up with that? Are YOU angry about this topic, so you assume/project that on me?

I'm not angry at all, and I challenge anyone (except you, of course) to come up with some indication of that.... this is a discussion, and I'm discussing it.

If you are so eager to accuse people you disagree with of "angry responses", perhaps you need to step away from this type of discussion forum.

Trust me.... if I WAS angry about something, it would certainly be evident.

The rest of your responses to my post were pretty condescending, and I see no reason to re-iterate what I said. You believe what you want, I'll agree to disagree with your "take" on this topic.

 

[Studyman]

=followjesus;3307932]Yes, it is not true that Jesus gave us NEW Standards of behavior."

yes Jesus did Give us the standards of Behavior different from what is written in the Mosaic Law,, Jesus actually deviated from and Broke at Least One commandment of the mosaic Law regarding not condemning the sinner, but forgiving them and instructing them. thats drastically different from " the sinner must be put to death show No Mercy, no pity....

I so much appreciate the kind words brother, but I must speak out about this statement.

Lev. 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:

42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Num. 14:19 Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.

20 And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:

Psalms 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.

Psalms 25:6 Remember, O LORD, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old.
7 Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake, O LORD.

the sinner must be put to death show No Mercy, no pity....[/

I mean no disrespect but I could fill this whole page with examples of God showing people mercy and pity. For Jesus to forgive the Harlot is absolutely not out of line with God's Teaching given to Moses. It was the Pharisees who were out of line "Teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men". As Priests they were to cleanse their own self first. As Jesus put it, "Pull the beam out of their own eye first".

If God had shown no pity or mercy there would be no "Children of Israel", they would be no Abraham, no Noah.

Jesus didn't break any of God's commandments, and He didn't create new ones for us. He simply explained their intent that the Mainstream Church of that time had corrupted and forgotten. The idea that Jesus saved us from this horrible God and His burdensome Laws is a wide spread teaching, but just doesn't line up with scriptures, just like God having no pity or mercy doesn't line up with scriptures.

I mean no offence, only to share scripture and communicate God's Word in this evil time. Remember the warnings of Jesus.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

As Jude said;

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


The Old Testament was written for us.

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

I hope you can see the point of this post

 

[Studyman]

Hmmm... sounds like a guilty dog barking first...

You keep accusing me of anger? Where in the world did you come up with that? Are YOU angry about this topic, so you assume/project that on me?

I'm not angry at all, and I challenge anyone (except you, of course) to come up with some indication of that.... this is a discussion, and I'm discussing it.

If you are so eager to accuse people you disagree with of "angry responses", perhaps you need to step away from this type of discussion forum.

Trust me.... if I WAS angry about something, it would certainly be evident.

The rest of your responses to my post were pretty condescending, and I see no reason to re-iterate what I said. You believe what you want, I'll agree to disagree with your "take" on this topic.

According to you, all we have to do is not physically murder someone, and we're righteous.
According to you, all we have to do is refrain from the physical act of adultery, and we're righteous.
According to you, we can make all kinds of vows, swearing on our mother's grave, no problem.

Forgive me if I mistook these baseless accusations for anger.

I'm good with agreeing to disagree

thank you for your thoughtful reply

 

[followjesus]

Naw you are misunderstanding me, what the gospel teaches Man to actually do, is dofferent thatn what the Law of Moses taught man to actually do is what Im saying. im not disagreeing with alot of what you are saying, for instance, in the Law you also find the principles of the Gospel, such as Bear no grudges, and " give to the poor and do it not from a begrudging Heart" even the Laws summary, " Love thy Neighbor as thyself" is written in the Law of Moses...thats where paul wuotes it from of course....


this very simply is what Im saying,

The Mosaic Law does Not apply after a person dies. the punishment of the Law, is death the sinner is Killed...the end. there is nothing in the Law to promise anything more than Long Blessed Life on earth, promoises that your Crops will yeild well, your plans will succeed, you will be blessed going in and going Out.....if You Obey the Law all those material Blessings are yours. but No matter How detailed you observe the Mosaic Law, you can Nevr attain the promises of the Gospel they are different promises as different as flesh and spirit.

so infact are many of the actions he commnded different in the Law and Gospel. the Gospel is the reality of the Law.

when you are Looking at the Mosaic Law for what it is, on one plain t was a written book of Laws, written By Moses as a testimony AGAINST Israel. it is for the purpose of witnessing against transgressors. thats what the Law is and what Gods Word makes clear its as if you are missing what the Law, says the Law is. the " Law" when refered to is a reference to this book of the Mosaic Law this book here


Deuteronomy 31 " And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

27For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? 28Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. 29For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands."


God tells Moses this just before and Moses then tells the people. God always Planned for the Law to be incomplete for mankind, its not the same thing as the Gospel, its the foundation the Gospel is the House.

when You see that Moses wrote the entire Law in the Book and then it was placed next to the ark of the covenant as a witness against sinners. you can then see what paul is saying here speaking of this mosaic Book of the Law.

colossians 2 "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

do you see the Law was opposed to man, because it was given to sinners, to restrain thier inner Lusts of a sinful person. its not for Christians who are born of the spirit to see the Law, the same way the Israelites saw it. the perception is different the Law is precieved by the flesh of man, the Gospel is perceived By the spirit of man. the Law is a carnal Law, a Law specifically for sinners who cannot see the spiritual things the New Brand new things Jesus brought with His arrival. its actually very contrary at main points the Law and the gospel.


Jesus spends alot of time contrasting the things Moses wrote in the Book of the Law, and His Gospel of the Kingdom of God. the Law only appears as it does, with all the death and punishment and curse for disobedience...because it was given to sinners, never Meant to redeem or make them New in spirit. Jesus gospel comes first and then the Law is seen correctly. in the Gospel you see and perceive all that is fulfilled from the Law, and what is Left is a sermon of the coming messiah to Israel.

its very contrary However. I didnt say God wasnt merciful and forgiving then, I am saying the Law of Moses is based on the principles written in it and they are different from the Gospel they command Gods people to gather round the adulterer and all throw jagged rocks until death. the same with children who dishonor or curse thier Parents they must surely be put to death, by Gods People, by direct command of God through Moses. on the contrary Jesus did not agree to that which is written in the Law, He disobeyed the Law of Moses actually it says this

Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even hethat committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."


the process was for the witnesses who saw it to report it and testify that they saw it happen and identify the transgressors then the witnesses at Least 2, were to cast the first stones and all the camp of israel were to gather together and all throw Rocks until the fellow Israelite had been Killed......


thats what is plainly written in the Law a directive to Israel of How to deal with adulterers. you Probably already Know where Im Going with this but... Heres what Jesus said about it

John 8:"They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? .....

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]....[/FONT] he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their ownconscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."


do you not see the disfference? the Law would have Her stoned then and there, there were witnesses and authorities present. Had Jesus been following the Law of Moses, He would have been the first to throw a stone, it was a Law. a commandment of God that when the People did this, they " shew no pity, shew No mercy the persons blood is on thier own Head"

can you Hinestly say thats the same as the Gospel? that says as many times as a brother sins against you, forgive Him. be as merciful as God Is to you, do No Harm to thy neighbor ( whether they commit adultery or Not even if we see it) we still are not to go report to a lynch Mob and come with torches and stakes or anything, we should if its our place have a private talk with them. but the Gospel doesnt endorse the Mosaic Laws structure.


God has always been the same. Mercigul, good , Loving ect.....But what Man was taught By God is not the same anymore because One is for the flesh nature, the Other is for the spirit. if we follow the spirit the Gospel, the flesh things will be kept the " righteousness" of the Law not the ordinances and cerimonial laws, nor the festival days and speacial sabbaths and foods ect.... But the righteousness in the Law the Knowledge of Good and the warning of evil. 2 different things what Moses taught the People to do and what Jesus taught the People to do. the spirit is greater and eternal .....the old ends at death and were taught by faith that we died to the Law, which Means Like a marriage, its until "death do we part" from the Law. Once we die the debt is paid in full according to the Law....which is why Jesus dies on Our Behalf......
"

 

[followjesus]

Naw you are misunderstanding me, what the gospel teaches Man to actually do, is dofferent thatn what the Law of Moses taught man to actually do is what Im saying. im not disagreeing with alot of what you are saying, for instance, in the Law you also find the principles of the Gospel, such as Bear no grudges, and " give to the poor and do it not from a begrudging Heart" even the Laws summary, " Love thy Neighbor as thyself" is written in the Law of Moses...thats where paul wuotes it from of course....


this very simply is what Im saying,

The Mosaic Law does Not apply after a person dies. the punishment of the Law, is death the sinner is Killed...the end. there is nothing in the Law to promise anything more than Long Blessed Life on earth, promoises that your Crops will yeild well, your plans will succeed, you will be blessed going in and going Out.....if You Obey the Law all those material Blessings are yours. but No matter How detailed you observe the Mosaic Law, you can Nevr attain the promises of the Gospel they are different promises as different as flesh and spirit.

so infact are many of the actions he commnded different in the Law and Gospel. the Gospel is the reality of the Law.

when you are Looking at the Mosaic Law for what it is, on one plain t was a written book of Laws, written By Moses as a testimony AGAINST Israel. it is for the purpose of witnessing against transgressors. thats what the Law is and what Gods Word makes clear its as if you are missing what the Law, says the Law is. the " Law" when refered to is a reference to this book of the Mosaic Law this book here


Deuteronomy 31 " And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

27For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? 28Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. 29For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands."


God tells Moses this just before and Moses then tells the people. God always Planned for the Law to be incomplete for mankind, its not the same thing as the Gospel, its the foundation the Gospel is the House.

when You see that Moses wrote the entire Law in the Book and then it was placed next to the ark of the covenant as a witness against sinners. you can then see what paul is saying here speaking of this mosaic Book of the Law.

colossians 2 "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

do you see the Law was opposed to man, because it was given to sinners, to restrain thier inner Lusts of a sinful person. its not for Christians who are born of the spirit to see the Law, the same way the Israelites saw it. the perception is different the Law is precieved by the flesh of man, the Gospel is perceived By the spirit of man. the Law is a carnal Law, a Law specifically for sinners who cannot see the spiritual things the New Brand new things Jesus brought with His arrival. its actually very contrary at main points the Law and the gospel.


Jesus spends alot of time contrasting the things Moses wrote in the Book of the Law, and His Gospel of the Kingdom of God. the Law only appears as it does, with all the death and punishment and curse for disobedience...because it was given to sinners, never Meant to redeem or make them New in spirit. Jesus gospel comes first and then the Law is seen correctly. in the Gospel you see and perceive all that is fulfilled from the Law, and what is Left is a sermon of the coming messiah to Israel.

its very contrary However. I didnt say God wasnt merciful and forgiving then, I am saying the Law of Moses is based on the principles written in it and they are different from the Gospel they command Gods people to gather round the adulterer and all throw jagged rocks until death. the same with children who dishonor or curse thier Parents they must surely be put to death, by Gods People, by direct command of God through Moses. on the contrary Jesus did not agree to that which is written in the Law, He disobeyed the Law of Moses actually it says this

Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even hethat committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."


the process was for the witnesses who saw it to report it and testify that they saw it happen and identify the transgressors then the witnesses at Least 2, were to cast the first stones and all the camp of israel were to gather together and all throw Rocks until the fellow Israelite had been Killed......


thats what is plainly written in the Law a directive to Israel of How to deal with adulterers. you Probably already Know where Im Going with this but... Heres what Jesus said about it

John 8:"They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? .....

.... he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their ownconscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."


do you not see the disfference? the Law would have Her stoned then and there, there were witnesses and authorities present. Had Jesus been following the Law of Moses, He would have been the first to throw a stone, it was a Law. a commandment of God that when the People did this, they " shew no pity, shew No mercy the persons blood is on thier own Head"

can you Hinestly say thats the same as the Gospel? that says as many times as a brother sins against you, forgive Him. be as merciful as God Is to you, do No Harm to thy neighbor ( whether they commit adultery or Not even if we see it) we still are not to go report to a lynch Mob and come with torches and stakes or anything, we should if its our place have a private talk with them. but the Gospel doesnt endorse the Mosaic Laws structure.


God has always been the same. Mercigul, good , Loving ect.....But what Man was taught By God is not the same anymore because One is for the flesh nature, the Other is for the spirit. if we follow the spirit the Gospel, the flesh things will be kept the " righteousness" of the Law not the ordinances and cerimonial laws, nor the festival days and speacial sabbaths and foods ect.... But the righteousness in the Law the Knowledge of Good and the warning of evil. 2 different things what Moses taught the People to do and what Jesus taught the People to do. the spirit is greater and eternal .....the old ends at death and were taught by faith that we died to the Law, which Means Like a marriage, its until "death do we part" from the Law. Once we die the debt is paid in full according to the Law....which is why Jesus dies on Our Behalf......
"

he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their ownconscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."


if you look at How drastically different the basis is you can probably see what im saying better see How what Jesus said, affected the People who were ready to stone Her ? and that would have been obeying the Law. But what Jesus said is

john 6:63 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Jesus Gospel is the spirit of the intent of the Law, its what the Law looks Like, from Gods Perspective rather than seeing it through the perspective of sinners in constant rebellion as all men were at some point, it is different because its meant for different People the Old creation the sinner....and the new creation, the Born of Gods spirit, child . if you Notice, the Law is formed on a basis of " thou shalt Not or you will surely die" its because it comes from that first transgression in eden.

the Gospel is the cure to the issue that caused the Law to have the curse in it, that being ...sin which brought Death to mankind. the Law is a result of what adam did....the Gospel is a result of what Jesus did. One is the condemnation of sinners, the Other is the salvation of those same sinners.

all this said, Once you go to the Gospel for light to understand, the Laws curse is removed and what is Left is the roots of the Gospel that Jesus taught, its sort of Hidden in the Law behind all of the stone the sinner show no mercy to the sinner, purge the evil from among you stuff. all of the priestly Laws and things even speak of the Gospel when you ralize How Many things are fulfilled in what Christ is for us now. the Moirality Laws from the gospel perspective are a blueprint of what Mans nature was intended to be, which shows the sinner how far He has fallen and it appears as death to the transgressor, but to the righteous the Law is Life.

the true Law of God, is found from Matthew 1:1 to the end of John. it is then expounded upon by the following Books and it was foreshadowed and patterned out By the Law and then the Prophets foretold in buits and peices what was to come, the truth of salvation and Gods Kingdom is found in the 4 gospels. the rest helps deeper understanding when you go through the Light of the Gospel.

Jesus words are spirit and Life, Notice How it affected the accusers in that story, the Law had them ready to Kill her, Jesus said something different, He showed the true perception of the Law. and see How it affected thier consciences and they slowly began Leaving one By One....that saved the Woman, what Jesus said saved Her Life. and it cut thoer Hearts in the conscience caused them to turn the Judgement away from the other sinners like the Law teaches strictly to do, the Judgement is turned first on Our Own selves before we can Judge another.


there is much difference to be seen there. Moses command had given the adulterer No way Out, to Keep that Law, Meant she was dead, imagine the feeling she felt Knowing they were about to stone Her no mercy No Pity.....thats How the Law commands them. the Gospel is contrasted Being Based on " blessed are the merciful they will receive mercy," forgive and you will be forgiven" Judge Not and you will not be Judged, condemn not and you will not be condemned.....these are not requotes from the Law at all, it is a new way of seeing what the Law really is, as opposed to the oppressive thing sinners see. what causes the death in us is sin, and sin fights against the Law in the struggle it remains alive. Our only release from sins power is to follow Jesus and what He taught, because its what He said would free us and it will.

 

[mailmandan]

The Commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, except for the command to keep the Sabbath.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)

 

[followjesus]

The Commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, except for the command to keep the Sabbath.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)

"4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17"


the sabbaths mentioned there, are not a reference to the sabbath day. OPaul is speaking of all of the ordinances and special days and feasts and moon festivals and harvest festivals special sabbths and foods and drink and so on. the ordinance things like cleansing rites, sacrificing a burnt offering and then consumning it, all of the detailed ordinances and rites. the sabbath shouldnt be such an issue. if a person Loves God, God said Keep the sabbath Holy, use it as a day of rest. that should be enough for anyone who Loves God.

there is nothing that Jesus changed about the sabbath. he explained it. there is no reason for anyone to remove a commandment.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

seems that so many continue to remove these commandments of God from christianity, can anyone really disagree with them though? who can say its irrelevant whether you have a different god than the only true God? or its irrelevant whether you steal? Kill? commit adultery? Lie? covet? its sad that so few see the value of God the Creator and final authorities Words goven to His creation, when He has made it of utmost importance from the start. imagine if all people looked at these as the Law and obeyed it......a world of peace and Harmony would result...think it through before you tell people the covenant Law doesnt apply, think about what you are saying doesnt apply. Gods Word is good and right, and for mankinds good.



exodus 20:1-17 "And God spake all these words, saying,
2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.



God bless you and enlighten the Mind within you and teach you to Love His ways beginning with the ten commandments, i would encourage you to share more of what God said, rather than opinions and popular ways of man.

The law was made for those who are unrighteous but those who are GOD's workmanship are just and their spirits were made perfect by GOD are no longer under law but are abiding IN the vine and receiving sustenance from the vine and displaying spiritual fruit,establishing the law.

The person can't be under law and under Grace,as If saying GOD did It all and I helped.

Give GOD ALL the credit.

 

[beta]

As I see it:

The issue is that the 10 Commandments, like the Law, can't be kept to God's standard by our own efforts. Regardless how much we might agree with them we understand that in our own strength we are unable to obey them.
Jesus kept them perfectly on our behalf; so we are free from the consequence of our failings. The Holy spirit within us works to cause us both to will and to do His good pleasure. Our obedience comes not from our conscious effort; but, rather, from The Spirit working in and through us. We need not have the 10 commandments on our mind because the Holy Spirit puts them into our behavior.

Am I wrong to think we very much need to have God's Word/Commandments on our nind because....
we can only become a new Creation/Creature by the 'renewing in the spirit of our mind Eph 4v23.
The Holy Spirit of God does not work in our flesh/behaviour separate from our mind/spirit....we must be 'in agreement with everything God says and does before He can successfully fight on our behalf, or make changes to our behaviour. I would say that our conscious mind is very much needed in that battle against evil.