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Thread: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

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    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Who heard the conversation Satan had with God about Job?

    Who heard the prayer Jesus gave right before His arrest in John 17?

    Who heard Jesus rebuke Satan by quoting Deuteronomy 3 times during His 40 days in the wilderness?
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    Senior Member FlSnookman7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Who heard the conversation Satan had with God about Job?

    Who heard the prayer Jesus gave right before His arrest in John 17?

    Who heard Jesus rebuke Satan by quoting Deuteronomy 3 times during His 40 days in the wilderness?

    God heard all 3...
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlSnookman7 View Post
    God heard all 3...
    So how was the info given in order it to be written?? Who gave the information to Job, Matthew, and John? They wrote as the third person, as if they heard it first hand.
    Last edited by unobtrusive; October 5th, 2017 at 07:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    The Holy Spirit.

    2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Who heard the conversation Satan had with God about Job?

    Who heard the prayer Jesus gave right before His arrest in John 17?

    Who heard Jesus rebuke Satan by quoting Deuteronomy 3 times during His 40 days in the wilderness?
    All Scripture is God-breathed! How do you know that God is who He says He is in your life? (Spiritual awareness from the Holy Spirit to our own; coupled with God employing your thoughts manifested in Christ's empowerment)! God was, therefore, directly involved with the authors of the gospel as well. Serving His will!
    Last edited by slave; October 5th, 2017 at 07:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    The Holy Spirit.

    2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Why didn't they say so like Paul did when Jesus spoke to him?

    As Paul relates his conversion experience to an audience in Jerusalem, he says, “They that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me” (Acts 22:9)

    However, Luke, in relating the same event, says, “The men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man” (Acts 9:7) .

    So, which is it? Paul says they saw the light and “they heard not the voice,” and Luke says they were “hearing a voice” but didn't see a man.

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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Looking forward to your explanation unobtrusive

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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    All Scripture is God-breathed! How do you know that God is who He says He is in your life? (Spiritual awareness from the Holy Spirit to our own; coupled with God employing your thoughts manifested in Christ's empowerment)! God was, therefore, directly involved with the authors of the gospel as well. Serving His will!
    I'm relating to conversations that indicate they were only between 2 people, seeming like another was present to hear the conversation, and then write it down for the record.

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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Looking forward to your explanation unobtrusive
    It's an honest question that I don't have an answer to. Maybe when Job finally saw the light at the end of the book, he was told, but he didn't say that he was, like unto the rest of the conversations God had with him in the end.

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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    It's an honest question that I don't have an answer to. Maybe when Job finally saw the light at the end of the book, he was told, but he didn't say that he was, as he confirmed in the rest of the conversations God had with him.
    Really, well let us consider the matter together my friend
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    Senior Member Innerfire89's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    For Job, I can't say, must've been Job or the story was revealed though a vision or knowledge from God.

    For the other two questions, Jesus could have just told the apostles.
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Why didn't they say so like Paul did when Jesus spoke to him?

    As Paul relates his conversion experience to an audience in Jerusalem, he says, “They that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me” (Acts 22:9)

    However, Luke, in relating the same event, says, “The men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man” (Acts 9:7) .

    So, which is it? Paul says they saw the light and “they heard not the voice,” and Luke says they were “hearing a voice” but didn't see a man.
    Now you've veered off the subject of Divine inspiration. However the explanation is quite simple. One can hear a voice without being able to decipher what is being said. Paul understood what was said very clearly, but his companions were stunned, and afraid, and did not decipher what was spoken. And possibly they were not even meant to hear what was said by the Lord to Paul. The message for strictly for him.

    Something which Christians should understand is that many things in Scripture may not have a ready explanation, and they are simply to be accepted for what they are. This is where simple trust in God and faith in the integrity of His Word comes in.

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    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Really, well let us consider the matter together my friend
    OK, Matthew was specific, keeping in mind that he writes like he hears the conversation first hand. No only that, Matthew knew that he better not assume when it came to quoting the truth, straight from the master's mouth. But no one was with Jesus. Luke 4:1 doesn't say He was with anybody.

    Matthew 4:3-10
    3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
    4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Deuteronomy 8:3)
    5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
    6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
    7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. (Deuteronomy 6:16)
    8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
    10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Deuteronomy 6:13-14)

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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    I love this record in Jeremiah because it reveals how God's Word was received and recorded:


    Jeremiah 36:

    1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

    2 Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.

    3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

    4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.

    5 And Jeremiah commanded Baruch, saying, I am shut up; I cannot go into the house of the LORD:

    6 Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the LORD in the ears of the people in the LORD'S house upon the fasting day: and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities.

    7 It may be they will present their supplication before the LORD, and will return every one from his evil way: for great is the anger and the fury that the LORD hath pronounced against this people.

    8 And Baruch the son of Neriah did according to all that Jeremiah the prophet commanded him, reading in the book the words of the LORD in the LORD'S house.

    9 And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the LORD to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem.

    10 Then read Baruch in the book the words of Jeremiah in the house of the LORD, in the chamber of Gemariah the son of Shaphan the scribe, in the higher court, at the entry of the new gate of the LORD'S house, in the ears of all the people.

    11 When Michaiah the son of Gemariah, the son of Shaphan, had heard out of the book all the words of the LORD,

    12 Then he went down into the king's house, into the scribe's chamber: and, lo, all the princes sat there, even Elishama the scribe, and Delaiah the son of Shemaiah, and Elnathan the son of Achbor, and Gemariah the son of Shaphan, and Zedekiah the son of Hananiah, and all the princes.

    13 Then Michaiah declared unto them all the words that he had heard, when Baruch read the book in the ears of the people.

    14 Therefore all the princes sent Jehudi the son of Nethaniah, the son of Shelemiah, the son of Cushi, unto Baruch, saying, Take in thine hand the roll wherein thou hast read in the ears of the people, and come. So Baruch the son of Neriah took the roll in his hand, and came unto them.

    15 And they said unto him, Sit down now, and read it in our ears. So Baruch read it in their ears.

    16 Now it came to pass, when they had heard all the words, they were afraid both one and other, and said unto Baruch, We will surely tell the king of all these words.

    17 And they asked Baruch, saying, Tell us now, How didst thou write all these words at his mouth?

    18 Then Baruch answered them, He pronounced all these words unto me with his mouth, and I wrote them with ink in the book.

    19 Then said the princes unto Baruch, Go, hide thee, thou and Jeremiah; and let no man know where ye be.

    20 And they went in to the king into the court, but they laid up the roll in the chamber of Elishama the scribe, and told all the words in the ears of the king.

    21 So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king.

    22 Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him.

    23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.

    24 Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, neither the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words.

    25 Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them.

    26 But the king commanded Jerahmeel the son of Hammelech, and Seraiah the son of Azriel, and Shelemiah the son of Abdeel, to take Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet: but the LORD hid them.

    27 Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,

    28 Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.

    29 And thou shalt say to Jehoiakim king of Judah, Thus saith the LORD; Thou hast burned this roll, saying, Why hast thou written therein, saying, The king of Babylon shall certainly come and destroy this land, and shall cause to cease from thence man and beast?

    30 Therefore thus saith the LORD of Jehoiakim king of Judah; He shall have none to sit upon the throne of David: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost.

    31 And I will punish him and his seed and his servants for their iniquity; and I will bring upon them, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and upon the men of Judah, all the evil that I have pronounced against them; but they hearkened not.

    32 Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.


    vs 1 - God revealed His Word to Jeremiah

    vs 4 - Jeremiah recited to Baruch

    vs 4 - Baruch wrote down what Jeremiah told him

    vs 10 - Baruch read the word of God to the people

    vs 13 - Michaiah (who was present at the time Baruch read the Word of God to the people) told some folks

    vs 14 - Baruch is called to recite the word of God

    vs 17 - Baruch is questioned "how did you write all these words at his (Jeremiah's) mouth"

    vs 21 - the word of God is read to the king

    vs 23 - the king cut the scroll with his knife and threw the scroll in the fire

    vs 24 - no fear at the mis-handling of the word of God

    vs 26 - God hid Jeremiah and Baruch

    vs 27 - God again revealed His Word to Jeremiah

    vs 32 - Jeremiah recited the word of God to Baruch and Baruch wrote down what Jeremiah told him.



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    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    OK, Matthew was specific, keeping in mind that he writes like he hears the conversation first hand. No only that, Matthew knew that he better not assume when it came to quoting the truth, straight from the master's mouth. But no one was with Jesus. Luke 4:1 doesn't say He was with anybody.

    Matthew 4:3-10
    3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
    4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Deuteronomy 8:3)
    5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
    6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
    7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. (Deuteronomy 6:16)
    8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
    10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Deuteronomy 6:13-14)
    I would admit that Jesus told Matthew the details, even though no one was with Jesus at the time. Maybe Jesus told John what He prayed in Gethsemane after the resurrection. Job is up for grabs, but maybe someone could give and understandable explanation about that.

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    Senior Member slave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Why didn't they say so like Paul did when Jesus spoke to him?

    As Paul relates his conversion experience to an audience in Jerusalem, he says, “They that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me” (Acts 22:9)

    However, Luke, in relating the same event, says, “The men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man” (Acts 9:7) .

    So, which is it? Paul says they saw the light and “they heard not the voice,” and Luke says they were “hearing a voice” but didn't see a man.
    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    All Scripture is God-breathed! How do you know that God is who He says He is in your life? (Spiritual awareness from the Holy Spirit to our own; coupled with God employing your thoughts manifested in Christ's empowerment)! God was, therefore, directly involved with the authors of the gospel as well. Serving His will! Its still the answer! Smile.
    As far as your other Scripture references:

    Acts 22:9 reference:

    Paul's defence to the mob who are out for his blood is not to argue but to relate a personal experience; and a personal experience is the most unanswerable argument on earth. This defence is in essence a paradox. It stresses two things:

    1). It stresses Paul's identity with the people to whom he is speaking. He was a Jew and that he never forgot (compare 2 Cor.11:22; Philp.3:4-5). He was a man of Tarsus and Tarsus was no mean city. It was one of the great ports of the Mediterranean, standing at the mouth of the River Cydnus and being the terminus of a road which came all across Asia Minor from the far-off Euphrates. It was one of the greatest university cities of the ancient world. He was a rabbi, trained at the feet of Gamaliel who had been "the glory of the Law," and who had died only about five years before. He had been a persecutor in his zeal for the ancestral ways. On all these points Paul was entirely at one with the audience to which he was speaking.

    2). It stresses the difference between Paul and his audience. The root difference was that he saw Christ as the Saviour of all men and God as the lover of all men. His audience saw God as the lover only of the Jews. They sought to hug the privileges of God to themselves and regarded the man who would spread them abroad as a blasphemer. The difference was that Paul had met Christ face to face.

    In one sense Paul was identified with the men to whom he spoke; in another he was separated from them. It is like that with the Christian. He lives in the world but God has separated him and consecrated him to a special task.

    Acts 9:7 reference:

    In this passage we have the most famous conversion story in history. We must try as far as we can to enter into Paul's mind. When we do, we will see that this is not a sudden conversion but a sudden surrender. Something about Stephen lingered in Paul's mind and would not be banished. How could a bad man die like that? In order to still his insistent doubt Paul plunged into the most violent action possible. First he persecuted the Christians in Jerusalem. This only made matters worse because once again he had to ask himself what secret these simple people had which made them face peril and suffering and loss serene and unafraid. So then, still driving himself on, he went to the Sanhedrin.

    The writ (or formal written order) of the Sanhedrin ran wherever there were Jews. Paul had heard that certain of the Christians had escaped to Damascus and he asked for letters of credit that he might go to Damascus and extradite them. The journey only made matters worse. It was about 140 miles from Jerusalem to Damascus. The journey would be made on foot and would take about a week. Paul's only companions were the officers of the Sanhedrin, a kind of police force. Because he was a Pharisee, he could have nothing to do with them; so he walked alone; and as he walked he thought, because there was nothing else to do.

    The way went through Galilee, and Galilee brought Jesus even more vividly to Paul's mind. The tension in his inner being tightened. So he came near Damascus, one of the oldest cities in the world. Just before Damascus the road climbed Mount Hermon and below lay Damascus, a lovely white city in a green plain, "a handful of pearls in a goblet of emerald." That region had this characteristic phenomenon that when the hot air of the plain met the cold air of the mountain range, violent electrical storms resulted. Just at that moment came such a lightning storm and out of the storm Christ spoke to Paul. In that moment the long battle was over and Paul surrendered to Christ.

    So into Damascus he went a changed man. And how changed! He who had intended to enter Damascus like an avenging fury was led by the hand, blind and helpless.

    There is all of Christianity in what the Risen Christ said to Paul, "Go into the city, and you will be told what to do." Up to this moment Paul had been doing what he liked, what he thought best, what his will dictated. From this time forward he would be told what to do. The Christian is a man who has ceased to do what he wants to do and who has begun to do what Christ wants him to do.

    Does this help with any insight for you?






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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlSnookman7 View Post
    God heard all 3...
    Amen, in the person of the Holy Spirit and He moved holy men to write them down.

    I Peter 1:19-21 “And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”
    stonesoffire likes this.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Who heard the conversation Satan had with God about Job?

    Who heard the prayer Jesus gave right before His arrest in John 17?

    Who heard Jesus rebuke Satan by quoting Deuteronomy 3 times during His 40 days in the wilderness?
    God heard them and inspired Job to write about them.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    It's an honest question that I don't have an answer to. Maybe when Job finally saw the light at the end of the book, he was told, but he didn't say that he was, like unto the rest of the conversations God had with him in the end.
    The problem is that God has not chosen to, nor is He obliged to answer all our questions. He has given us what He determined that we need to know; and left some questions unanswered so that we will have opportunity to exercise faith.

    Faith says: Some things are true because God says so; and we don't always need to know Why.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who heard these conversations in order to record them?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Who heard the conversation Satan had with God about Job?

    Who heard the prayer Jesus gave right before His arrest in John 17?

    Who heard Jesus rebuke Satan by quoting Deuteronomy 3 times during His 40 days in the wilderness?
    How did they know in the Old Testament that the earth is round and hangs upon nothing? Or about the water cycle- that rivers come from the sea and return back to the sea? This is because God enlightened them. All scripture comes from God- so I’m sure when men wrote down His words, that they were also learning as they were writing.

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