SAVED BY OUR OWN MERITS - THE ULTIMATE CONCLUSION OF SEMI-PELAGIANS

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Feb 1, 2014
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#1
Semi-Pelagians, of whatever variety, ultimately believe they are saved by their own merits.

This conclusion is INESCAPABLE.

An account was related to me where a street preacher type stated, in so many words, we are saved because we are smarter than you. You fail to place your faith in Jesus, therefore you are stupid.

When it comes down to it, that's what semi-Pelagians of all stripes believe. There is something inherent within me that caused me to be saved, rather than God's grace.

It is constantly reinforced amongst them in their echo chamber that God has given every man a measure of faith, therefore if that person is not saved, it's their own fault. The logical conclusion is that the reason they are saved is due to their own merits. There's no way of escaping this.

As I do jail ministry, I find myself thinking like a semi-Pelagian. I know the crimes of some of those men. I am thinking, there's no way those guys are going to come to Christ. Then, it comes to me, Robert..you're thinking like a semi-Pelagian. STOP IT.

And, the basis of the Arminian position is basically this: God predestines based on foreknowledge of the faith response of the individual. So, there's no way to avoid the conclusion that the Arminian's salvation, in his mind, is related to his personal merits, in that he made the right decision and others did not. This is UNAVOIDABLE.

Some just aren't smart enough to avoid statements like the street preacher. They believe they are the ones who were smart enough to flee to God, and that their wisdom is to be credited, and not the pure grace of God, but they just aren't dumb enough to say it.

Thank goodness for dumb Arminian/Pelagian street preachers who bear their thoughts so clearly :)
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#2
Often Romans 12:3 is quoted to "prove" that every man has a measure of faith.

The person who uses this verse needs to realize that it's in the context of the Church, and precedes a conversation on spiritual gifts.

Ephesians 2:8-10 is clear in stating that all of salvation, including faith, is a gift, and that no one who is saved can brag or boast about it. NONE.

Regarding Romans 1, I acknowledge that God has been manifested to all in terms of the creation (general revelation), but this knowledge is not sufficient for salvation. It is sufficient for holding man accountable for their sin, though. Mankind can only be saved through the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12).
 
P

PHart

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#3
Just post the verse or passage that says 'believing', through the gift of faith, is us meriting our own salvation. You won't find it because believing/trusting in God in response to the 'knowing' of faith is on the side of that which does justify, not on the side of meritorious works that can not justify.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#4
Isaiah 5:20-21
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#5
I Corinthians 1:26For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards,[SUP]c[/SUP] not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29so that no human being[SUP]d[/SUP] might boast in the presence of God. 30And because of him[SUP]e[/SUP] you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

So, those who are saved are smarter than those who are not? LOL....
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#6
Just post the verse or passage that says 'believing', through the gift of faith, is us meriting our own salvation. You won't find it because believing/trusting in God in response to the 'knowing' of faith is on the side of that which does justify, not on the side of meritorious works that can not justify.
Scripture is clear in teaching that those who think they have ANYTHING to boast about are in error. I already quoted two verses in regards to this.

And let's face it..those who hold the semi Pelagian position by nature are affirming that there is something meritorious about their choice.

Scripture is also clear in teaching that it is God who elects. I'd have to be Ray Charles to fail to see this.
 
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Apr 23, 2017
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#7
hi sparkman........ u can see my post on coming out the closet on the other calvinist thread about evangelizing u see........
but i agree i also came to realize this..... i also believe in whats called doctrines of grace.

no matter how u slice it or dice it, if its not all God, then its some man. and thats too much!!!!!!!!
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#8
Just post the verse or passage that says 'believing', through the gift of faith, is us meriting our own salvation. You won't find it because believing/trusting in God in response to the 'knowing' of faith is on the side of that which does justify, not on the side of meritorious works that can not justify.
You won't find a Scripture that proves believing is us meriting our own salvation. Why would you ask me to prove something that I don't believe? I don't think anyone can merit their own salvation. That is the point I am making.

Believing is the result of an act of grace on God's part. Regeneration precedes faith.

This is the Reformed position.

So why are you asking me to prove a point that is an Arminian presupposition? Your request is incoherent.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#9
hi sparkman........ u can see my post on coming out the closet on the other calvinist thread about evangelizing u see........
but i agree i also came to realize this..... i also believe in whats called doctrines of grace.

no matter how u slice it or dice it, if its not all God, then its some man. and thats too much!!!!!!!!
Cool bro :)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#10
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 64:6-8, “And all of us have become as one unclean, and all our righteousnesses are as soiled rags. And all of us fade like a leaf, and our crookednesses, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your Name, who stirs himself up to be strengthened in You; for You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our crookednesses. And now, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], You are our Father. We are the clay, and You our potter. And we are all the work of Your hand.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."[/FONT]






 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#11
Scripture is clear in teaching that those who think they have ANYTHING to boast about are in error. I already quoted two verses in regards to this.

And let's face it..those who hold the semi Pelagian position by nature are affirming that there is something meritorious about their choice.

Scripture is also clear in teaching that it is God who elects. I'd have to be Ray Charles to fail to see this.
Good to meet you, Ray, :)

God does not determine who will be saved. He wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet 3:9).

People need to hear the gospel so they can make a decision whether to believe it or not, and when they believe, they are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13).

People make the wise choice when they decide to believe the gospel.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#12
You won't find a Scripture that proves believing is us meriting our own salvation. Why would you ask me to prove something that I don't believe? I don't think anyone can merit their own salvation. That is the point I am making.

Believing is the result of an act of grace on God's part.
Deciding to believe is every person's decision.

Regeneration precedes faith.
Not according to Eph 1:13.

This is the Reformed position.
The Reformed position (that God decides whom He will save) is false.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#13
An account was related to me where a street preacher type stated, in so many words, we are saved because we are smarter than you. You fail to place your faith in Jesus, therefore you are stupid.

When it comes down to it, that's what semi-Pelagians of all stripes believe. There is something inherent within me that caused me to be saved, rather than God's grace.
Are you saying God's grace is not in you? Is it something outside of you?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#14
The Reformed position (that God decides whom He will save) is false.

have you heard it said,

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" ?​

is this a bad translation?

should it maybe read

'I will have mercy on those who choose to cause me to have mercy on them' ?​

like, should i pray '
my will be done' ?
the actual situation is that the clay informs the Potter of its purpose & the axe lifts up the woodsman's arms?

hmm seems questionable, but maybe i just haven't heard it cogently presented.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#15

have you heard it said,

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" ?​

is this a bad translation?

should it maybe read

'I will have mercy on those who choose to cause me to have mercy on them' ?​

like, should i pray '
my will be done' ?
the actual situation is that the clay informs the Potter of its purpose & the axe lifts up the woodsman's arms?

hmm seems questionable, but maybe i just haven't heard it cogently presented.
Maybe you're misunderstanding that verse (assuming it's saying that God decides whom He will save), and failing to take into account all the other verses that state people can choose to believe, and that God WANTS people to choose to believe?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#16
Maybe you're misunderstanding that verse (assuming it's saying that God decides whom He will save)

fortunately for us, Paul explains the point he's trying to make us understand with Romans 9:15 in Romans 9:16


So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#17
Often Romans 12:3 is quoted to "prove" that every man has a measure of faith.

The person who uses this verse needs to realize that it's in the context of the Church, and precedes a conversation on spiritual gifts.
Romans 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

1 Corinthians 12:9 - to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit.

God has granted a differing measure of faith to His children. I don't see this as faith that all Christians have in Christ, since Paul implies that some in the body have it and others don't. I see it as a special endowment of faith to accomplish certain tasks in ministry.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#18

fortunately for us, Paul explains the point he's trying to make us understand with Romans 9:15 in Romans 9:16


So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

The context is not determining who will be saved and who won't.

Sometimes God has to choose, to make a decision. Isaac had twins, Jacob and Esau. God had to choose one of them to be the Christ-line. He chose Jacob. God did not "hate" Esau in the way we generally think of that word today. He loved him less. He showed his favor (mercy) on Jacob.

And again, you have not addressed the many other verses that state it's up to people to choose.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#19
Why does Romans 10 begin with a desire and a prayer to God that Israel might be saved, if Paul has just spent all of Romans 9 totally not talking about salvation, definitely not the same subject he had spent 6, 7 & 8 discussing and explaining step-by-step?

Romans 9:23-24 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

What's that passage 'actually' about? not the gospel of salvation through the finished work of Christ?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#20
Semi-Pelagians, of whatever variety, ultimately believe they are saved by their own merits.
You are probably referring to the zealous Pharisees who sought to establish their own righteousness by the works of the Law. They were neither "semi" nor "Pelagian".

As to genuine Christians who reject Reformed Theology, all of them believe that they are saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, AND NOT OF THEMSELVES. Salvation is the gift of God to those who repent and believe, and obey the Gospel.