Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?

[He_reigns]

So then does does the vine discard the branch if it does not ask for forgiveness?

I ask this since you have made it part and parcel of abiding in Christ.

Matt 6:14-15 says this:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

I cannot tell you if the vine discards the branch, but Jesus made it clear we forgive or we will not be forgiven.

If we cannot lower pride enough to ask the Lord to forgive us for using profanity, because he already forgave you, I have no idea how we think we will lower pride, hurt and anger enough to forgive others when someone seriously hurts us.

Relational forgiveness keeps our hearts tender to the Lord and does not allow us to give a place to the devil [Eph 4.27]

If you disagree that's fine.

 

[BenFTW]

Matt 6:14-15 says this:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

I cannot tell you if the vine discards the branch, but Jesus made it clear we forgive or we will not be forgiven.

If we cannot lower pride enough to ask the Lord to forgive us for using profanity, because he already forgave you, I have no idea how we think we will lower pride, hurt and anger enough to forgive others when someone seriously hurts us.

Relational forgiveness keeps our hearts tender to the Lord and does not allow us to give a place to the devil [Eph 4.27]

If you disagree that's fine.

Ephesians tells us to forgive others because God, the Father, for Christ's sake has forgiven us. Tell me how this verse and the one in Colossians lines up with your concept of forgiveness through forgiving others? Prior to the work of Christ this statement of forgiveness was issued, but afterwards we see no mention of the necessity to forgive in order to be forgiven. Rather it is said that we forgive because we have been forgiven.

 

[He_reigns]

It seems the most startling thing for many older Christians is when they begin to hear about true righteousness in Christ. Finding out for maybe the first time where righteousness really comes and that "resting" in that is the requirement.

It can be a startling AND shocking freedom from fear that doesn't seem quite true. We are not used to this when it comes to God. We have been taught otherwise. Many of us have not been taught how to be confident in Christ.

When a Christian has lived their whole life sad and maybe even fearful of missing the mark and never really believing they are pleasing to God because of it ., THAT is works of the flesh. Doubt about God., and some fear and guilt thrown in makes for a very sorry joyless Christian and Christian life.

But not so with the Spirit. The Spirit is life and health and peace. But the enemy is ever ready to steal the joy of our salvation and the confidence in that salvation and mostly cast doubt on the love God gave In and by His Son. Romans 8:6

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][a][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].

I would guess that maybe this teaching is really just new to you and not other"older Christians"

 

[UnderGrace]

Well you would need to ask a born again believer how they were delivered from their addiction?

How about we ramp it up to repenting from being a serial killer?

Victory over sin does not come from sin confession or contrition it comes from knowing who we are in Christ (Romans 6:11,)

So how does this work post salvation? Is repentance from porn addiction after you are saved instant or does it take time?

 

[He_reigns]

Ephesians tells us to forgive others because God, the Father, for Christ's sake has forgiven us. Tell me how this verse and the one in Colossians lines up with your concept of forgiveness through forgiving others? Prior to the work of Christ this statement of forgiveness was issued, but afterwards we see no mention of the necessity to forgive in order to be forgiven. Rather it is said that we forgive because we have been forgiven.

2 Corinthians 2:1-11

You might also want to consider that Gal 1:12 means that what Jesus taught before he died, equally applies after he died, rose again and sat down.

 

[He_reigns]

Well you would need to ask a born again believer how they were delivered from their addiction?

How about we ramp it up to repenting from being a serial killer?

Victory over sin does not come from sin confession or contrition it comes from knowing who we are in Christ (Romans 6:11,)

Do you sin now? or are you one of these people that pushes sinless perfection because grace covers it all?

 

[Speak2Me]

You're responding to me in your preconceived ideas of what I believe instead of looking at what is being said. Don't jump to conclusions, actually read what is being said. If our willingness to forgive others is imperative to our forgiveness (our very salvation!) why do we not see the Lord's Prayer echoed past the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ? The answer is found in the reality of a new covenant. A righteousness that is of faith, not works. A forgiveness granted for Christ's sake and not of our own doing.

Matt 18:32Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.33And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’34And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers,[SUP]k[/SUP] until he should pay all his debt.35So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

Matt 6:12and forgive us our debts,as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.[SUP]d[/SUP]14For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mark 11:25And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.26But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

When you pass up all these verses, don't you think you've gone too far?

 

[UnderGrace]

Forgiving a brother/sister in Christ is different than seeking forgiveness from God when He has already forgiven all our sins when were we born again.

Saying that we have to keep telling God our sins and asking for forgiveness is like putting Jesus back up on the cross each time saying the one sacrifice was not enough.

If you are born again, your sins are forgiven, past, present and future.

Such a great work, done on our behalf, should keep our hearts tender if we truly understand it.

Matt 6:14-15 says this:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

I cannot tell you if the vine discards the branch, but Jesus made it clear we forgive or we will not be forgiven.

If we cannot lower pride enough to ask the Lord to forgive us for using profanity, because he already forgave you, I have no idea how we think we will lower pride, hurt and anger enough to forgive others when someone seriously hurts us.

Relational forgiveness keeps our hearts tender to the Lord and does not allow us to give a place to the devil [Eph 4.27]

If you disagree that's fine.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes I sin now, no I do not believe a believer can be perfect in this lifetime

I do believe that scripture teaches that the righteousness of Jesus is imputed to the born again believer.

His righteousness lives in me.

Do you sin now? or are you one of these people that pushes sinless perfection because grace covers it all?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You will not find any verses on seeking his hand or seeking and sitting in his lap, which is what the majority of NAR, WOF false teachers say to do.

You will find verses like this though:

1 Chronicles 16:1
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Seek the Lord and His strength;
Seek His face continually.


Psalm 27:8

[SUP]8 [/SUP]When You said, “Seek My face,” my heart said to You,
“Your face, O Lord, I shall seek.”

If you do not seek his face you cannot hear him speak to you.

Oh the preaching I could do right now!!!!

Trust in Him at all times, O people; Pour out your heart before Him; God is a refuge for us. Selah.

Psalm 62:8

Jesus said if we have seen Him, we have see the Father

God has always been willing to have this heart relationship with us

some of the new movements think they started it or something

David knew what it was about and that is why he was called a man after God's own heart

HEART HEART HEART

Jesus looks on the heart

 

[Speak2Me]

Let me correct your understanding of what I am saying, if you don't mind. Necessary for forgiveness, for forgiveness. I am not my own savior through the method of sin confession, I am saved by Jesus Christ who died on the cross for my sins and resurrected on the third day unto my justification. I don't confess my sins or forgive others to obtain forgiveness, that makes salvation (my forgiveness) dependent upon me instead of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It steals from Him, it doesn't accredit to Jesus that which He has purchased on my behalf. My forgiveness is by and through Christ, not a work of my own.

Salvation and forgiveness are not the same thing. Forgiveness is NOT salvation!
Unforgiveness can cause loss of salvation, and Jesus says so.

 

[He_reigns]

So gathering from this thread and others it seems modern day Gospel means there is nothing left for us to do but sit in the lawn chair, sip on a cool one and wait it all out.

Jesus own personal faith saved me, Daddy God's belief keeps me, what Jesus said before he died has no bearing on me, and now I do not even have to ask forgiveness of Sin, because my identity in Christ is the real forgiveness of my sin, not the shedding of blood. This thought completely removes Jesus from the salvation formula, maybe the poster did not mean to say that.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well this explains a lot of why you do not agree with the OP.

The born again believer is eternally secure in Christ. This is the true Gospel.

Salvation and forgiveness are not the same thing. Forgiveness is NOT salvation!
Unforgiveness can cause loss of salvation, and Jesus says so.

 

[UnderGrace]

How does it remove Jesus from the salvation formula?

Who said not the shedding of blood?

This is a misrepresentation of what has been stated.

So gathering from this thread and others it seems modern day Gospel means there is nothing left for us to do but sit in the lawn chair, sip on a cool one and wait it all out.

Jesus own personal faith saved me, Daddy God's belief keeps me, what Jesus said before he died has no bearing on me, and now I do not even have to ask forgiveness of Sin, because my identity in Christ is the real forgiveness of my sin, not the shedding of blood. This thought completely removes Jesus from the salvation formula, maybe the poster did not mean to say that.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I would guess that maybe this teaching is really just new to you and not other"older Christians"

I've said the same a couple of times now because I am kind of taken aback by some of the posts that seem to suggest that no one else understands what grace is all about and no one else understands the love of God

I was taught this from the get go

why assume that because y'all just found out, that the rest of us don't have a clue or are somehow devoid of the Holy Spirit?

there is a failure to understand that the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself

and He is not taking sides.

 

[He_reigns]

Forgiving a brother/sister in Christ is different than seeking forgiveness from God when He has already forgiven all our sins when were we born again.

Saying that we have to keep telling God our sins and asking for forgiveness is like putting Jesus back up on the cross each time saying the one sacrifice was not enough.

If you are born again, your sins are forgiven, past, present and future.

Such a great work, done on our behalf, should keep our hearts tender if we truly understand it.

So you commit a sin tomorrow, do you ask forgiveness or not?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Salvation and forgiveness are not the same thing. Forgiveness is NOT salvation!
Unforgiveness can cause loss of salvation, and Jesus says so.

you must be speaking of the parable of the man who was forgiven a huge amount and then went out and demanded of those who owed him, his money

yeah

Jesus did not say 'well done thou good and faithful servant'...it was outer darkness

but when you believe Jesus was speaking only to a select group or about the law, you see it differently I guess

 

[joaniemarie]

I think its so popular because people are realizing that their walk with God doesn't have to be one full of condemnation and guilt, or defeat. They get to stand before God without condemnation, boldly in Christ. They get to fellowship with their heavenly Father, not with a task master. Love is present and fear erased, knowing that God wants to fellowship with them and does not seek to condemn them but sent Jesus to save them.

Repentance is ever so necessary still. Its only that such repentance comes about through an emphasis on Christ, identity, and approaching the throne of grace in time of need. It is a renewal of the mind as we continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, ever growing in understanding and wisdom as to what we have in the riches of His grace.

So true brother. I like the part about the mind. Brother Fish also went right to that subject. The renewing of our minds. True repentance = A change from what we ONCE believed about God to what we NOW believe about God from Jesus. What we ONCE believed about us to what God says about us NOW IN Jesus.

The reason our minds are changing is because we are seeing our righteousness is found only IN Jesus. And by necessity., we keep running to Him knowing that is where we find freedom from the power of sin and death. Freedom from the power of condemnation from the world., the flesh and the devil. "For sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under law but under grace."

It's an awesome truth. The joy of the Lord is our strength. And the Holy Spirit points to Jesus and while He is doing that and we are believing., those rivers of living water keep flowing from our innermost being.
The amplified puts it nicely. John 7:38

[SUP]38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me [who cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me] as the Scripture has said, From his innermost being shall flow [continuously] springs and rivers of living water.

 

[He_reigns]

How does it remove Jesus from the salvation formula?

Who said not the shedding of blood?

This is a misrepresentation of what has been stated.

Then please clarify this statement. I may have misunderstood you.

Victory over sin does not come from sin confession or contrition it comes from knowing who we are in Christ (Romans 6:11,)

 

[He_reigns]

Yes I sin now, no I do not believe a believer can be perfect in this lifetime

I do believe that scripture teaches that the righteousness of Jesus is imputed to the born again believer.

His righteousness lives in me.

We do not disagree on this. Just because you have positional righteousness does not negate your need for maintaining practical righteousness. Asking The Lord to forgive you for sinning now is not condemnation, it is relationship.

If you and I were married and you wronged me and never asked forgiveness for hurting me we would grow apart. If you continued, our intimacy would be compromised. If you still persisted I might go to a counselor.

You really think your relationship with Christ is any different?