Revelation 22:12 - 22:16 Right to tree of life and gates into the city.

[PolarBerry]

In Revelations, I believe what Jesus said at the end to be morally correct, I am not saying it is true though because there are plenty of people who should be outside of the city but appear to be living happy rich lives while those who should be inside are suffering in poverty. The words below are in just my opinions and interpretations they may not be fact, read it for yourself to determine whether or not my interpretations matches your logic:


Jesus uses the term dog to represent people who return back to their vomit, I believe it means people who suffered and became good, righteous, and spiritually happy then return back to their evil wicked ways.

Jesus uses the term magic arts I suppose because any magic art must first come from God, so the actual practicing of it is a false belief that doesn't accredit God for God's power.


Jesus uses the term sexually immoral because anyone who is sexually immoral affects love and marriage. Marriage is intended to be a beautiful thing, and we should not have waste our first time at a wonderful experience such as sex on something that isn't love. Furthermore sexual immorality may cause jealousy in some which can result in countless acts of wickedness.


I think it would be absolutely wonderful if we all lived through life with sexual morality saving our first sexual experience with another for marriage knowing that our future spouse is doing so as well.

Jesus uses the term the murderers meaning unlawfully killing someone. Killing someone isn't necessarily murder, for instance killing Adolf Hitler was not murder because it was a righteous execution to kill someone that wicked.

Jesus uses the term idolaters meaning anyone who worships anything that isn't God. The reason is to say that we are all equals in God's eyes in both judgement and blessings; and only God is above us.

Jesus uses the term falsehood meaning anyone who practices lying to others in order to deceive or trick.




Feel free to leave questions; no comments or feedback please I don't want to have to scroll through everything to answer any questions and I'd like to keep this post neat and tidy so questions and answers can be easily viewed; thank you!

Feel free to share this post with others, but I do however like to remain anonymous to the world outside of this forum.

Also PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT PRAY FOR ME because you do not know me well enough or know my life or current talents to be able to decide better than myself what to pray for.





[FONT=&quot]Revelation 22 of the New International Version [/FONT]Holy Bible[FONT=&quot] says and is highlighted in red because it is quotes from Jesus and not the writer of Revelation. Below is an actual verse from the New International Version of the Holy Bible Book of Revelations chapter (page) 22:
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Epilogue: Invitation and Warning[/FONT]

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

 

[Ahwatukee]

Greetings PolarBerry,

In Revelations, I believe what Jesus said at the end to be morally correct, I am not saying it is true though because there are plenty of people who should be outside of the city but appear to be living happy rich lives while those who should be inside are suffering in poverty.

The reference to those people mentioned outside the city, is referring to those who are in the lake of fire and not that there are people wandering around outside the New Jerusalem's walls. The great white throne judgment will be a resurrection of all of the unrighteous throughout all of history. Anyone's name not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. Therefore, the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers and adulterers, will not be just outside the gates of the city, but is a reference to those who will be in the lake of fire.

Regarding those who practice "magic arts" also translated as sorcery, the Greek word is "Pharmakos," which is where we get the word pharmaceuticals from. referring to people who use drugs. Drugs were/are used in making incantations and casting spells, but I believe that it also refers to those who are using mind altering drugs for recreational use, as well as those who are actually involved in incantations, spells and those who practice witchcraft.

 

[PolarBerry]

Do you really believe magic arts is related to drugs? Because then how about supplements such as vitamins? Or anesthesia when getting surgery? I think God allowed and helped us create certain things to help ease our pain, help us believe in our placebos, as well as create work for some of us who are passionate about healthcare.

I believe he meant magic arts to literally be sorcery, because any sorcery would first have to come from God like i mentioned above. I think lake of fire is a metaphor because if you read most other versions of the Holy Bible they use outside instead of lake of fire. I believe lake of fire means something much more like cast outside of the New Kingdom or New Garden of Eden.

I'm glad you replied to this post though Ahwatukee because without trying to debate you or pondering what you were saying to be true, I would have not learned myself about the lake of fire referring to those who are cast out of the New Kingdom.

 

[heartofdavid]

It says death and hell are cast in it as well as Satan.

It is a lake of fire.

God is doing volumes for us not to be in it

 

[PolarBerry]

I don't want to conclude on that part of the Bible because death could be spiritual death as Jesus has referred death to be. I don't know what hell is but the Bible does use bottomless pit and says tortured day and night forever and ever so I don't see how a literal lake of fire would torture people if they would just burn to death in an instant. As for Satan in the lake of fire, can we burn a spirit? Because after all it says the spirit of Satan. I'm not sure the answer to some of my own questions.

 

[Hizikyah]

I don't want to conclude on that part of the Bible because death could be spiritual death as Jesus has referred death to be. I don't know what hell is but the Bible does use bottomless pit and says tortured day and night forever and ever so I don't see how a literal lake of fire would torture people if they would just burn to death in an instant. As for Satan in the lake of fire, can we burn a spirit? Because after all it says the spirit of Satan. I'm not sure the answer to some of my own questions.

I believe satan will be destroyed to never exist again, msatan my be punished for how long i dont know, however this shows the end of satan;

Ezekiyl 28:13-19, “You were in Ĕḏen, the garden of the MostHigh. Every precious stone was your covering: the ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, shoham, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald and gold. The workmanship of your settings and mountings was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed keruḇ that covered. And I placed you, you were on the set-apart mountain of Yah. You walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you. By the greatness of your trade you became filled with violence within, and you sinned. So I thrust you from the mountain of Yah, and I destroyed you, O covering keruḇ, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your loveliness, you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. I threw you to the earth, I laid you before sovereigns, to look at you. You profaned your set-apart places by your many crookednesses, by the unrighteousness of your trading. Therefore I brought forth fire from your midst. It has devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth before the eyes of all who see you. All who knew you among the peoples were astonished at you. Waste you shall be, and cease to be, forever.”

 

[Johnny_B]

These verses show that the bodies outside of the New Jerusalem are not spirits but are flesh. These bodies that teir worm never die, their fire shall not be quenched. So their torment is forever or has no end in sight.

Isaiah 66:22-24

“For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain.23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the Lord.

24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello PolarBerry,

I don't want to conclude on that part of the Bible because death could be spiritual death as Jesus has referred death to be.

Based on all of the scriptures, eternal life and death are both states of conscious existence. Life being conscious existence in the presence of God and the joys of His kingdom and death being conscious existence in separation from God in the lake of fire.

When Jesus was crucified, he told the thief next to him that "today he would be with Him in paradise," yet they both died that day. Jesus was speaking in regards to their spirits departing from their bodies and going to that same place where Abraham and Lazarus were in, which was across from where the rich man was in torment. And speaking of the rich man and Lazarus, this also demonstrates that these two men died, yet their spirits were present in that same area of Sheol/Hades that was a place of comfort/paradise, which was across from the place of torment where the rich man's spirit was/is.

Sheol/Hades is a temporary place of punishment which is under the earth and is where all of the spirits of the unrighteous go at the time of death. They will remain there until the great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15) where they will receive resurrected bodies fit for their final place of punishment, which is the lake of fire.

so I don't see how a literal lake of fire would torture people if they would just burn to death in an instant

You are exactly right! Being burned up in an instant would be no punishment. Scripture never alludes to those who are thrown into the lake of fire as becoming non-existent, but use the words "eternal, everlasting and for ever and ever," which some try to reduce to immediate annihilation, which none of the Greek words imply.

As for Satan in the lake of fire, can we burn a spirit?

Obviously spirits can be punished in flame, as it is demonstrated right in the scripture that you quoted:

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The punishment of those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, is defined in the same manner:

"If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.

The word "tormented" is defined as "torture." One would have to be existing in order to experience torment. The smoke of their torment/torture rises up forever and ever. Having no rest day or night (no intermission, no cessation) would also demonstrate on-going conscious existence in torment in flame. To put it plainly, the smoke of one's torment cannot rise forever and ever, nor can one have no rest day or night, if one does not exist, as one must exist in order to experience said torment.

The annihilationist ignore these details in the contexts referring to the translated word "destruction" or "perish" and attach their own meaning to those translated words as meaning annihilation/extinction without considering the Greek words that they are derived from. As an apologetic, they also refer to the event of the rich man and Lazarus as a parable and that because it destroys their whole idea of annihilation.However, and has you can see above, the context does not support that. The Greek words that are used Apollumi, Apoleia, both stemming from Olethros, do not imply annihilation or extinction, but carry the idea of complete loss of well being, ruination.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Hizikyah,

I believe satan will be destroyed to never exist again, Satan my be punished for how long i dont know, however this shows the end of satan;

Regarding the above, you have to consider the context, which says that Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire and tormented forever and ever. So in the context we have their torment defined as "forever and ever" while there is nothing in the context with any mention of and end to said torment. It is the same with the contexts regarding mankind who is thrown into the lake of fire.

Therefore, to infer that at some later time that there is an end to their torment in the lake of fire, this would be complete conjecture, reading into the context what is not there by assumption only.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hello Hizikyah,



Regarding the above, you have to consider the context, which says that Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire and tormented forever and ever. So in the context we have their torment defined as "forever and ever" while there is nothing in the context with any mention of and end to said torment. It is the same with the contexts regarding mankind who is thrown into the lake of fire.

Therefore, to infer that at some later time that there is an end to their torment in the lake of fire, this would be complete conjecture, reading into the context what is not there by assumption only.

Hi, may the peace of Yah be upon you!

Well what do you think about the OT passage I posted concering this matter?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hi, may the peace of Yah be upon you!

Well what do you think about the OT passage I posted concering this matter?

Hello again!

I'm guessing that you are referring to the following:

"So I thrust you from the mountain of Yah, and I destroyed you, O covering keruḇ, from the midst of the stones of fire."

"Therefore I brought forth fire from your midst. It has devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth before the eyes of all who see you. All who knew you among the peoples were astonished at you. Waste you shall be, and cease to be, forever.”

First of all and as I made known in the previous post, we tend to give another definition to the translated words that we are reading. Satan and his angels' rebellion took place prior to the creation of mankind. Yet we have Satan appearing before God in the case of Job and all that Satan did to him and his family. Therefore, Satan would have to be existing in order to perform all that he did against Job.

The first verse states that at the time Satan rebelled that God drove him out of God's holy mountain and destroyed him. Yet, we continue to see Satan appearing throughout scripture, even into the book of Revelation, where it is said that he accuses believers day and night. It also shows Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth 3 1/2 years prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

When God says "Waste you shall be, and cease to be, forever.” Based on the fact that other scriptures show that Satan still exists, then I would suggest that he will cease to be, forever, from his position of being the covering cherubim, opposed to not existing. Again, we have to cross-reference and compare other scriptures in order to have a full understanding of this. That said, the fact that Satan's end has him being thrown into the lake of fire where he will be tormented day and night forever and ever, would not support his ceasing to exist as referring to annihilation.

Whether angels or human beings, those consigned to the lake of fire cannot experience torment day and night forever and ever unless they are existing. You see these other words in the context "torment, day and night, forever and ever" support on-going punishment not annihilation.

Therefore, the information in Ezekiel is superseded by the fact that Satan is shown to be alive and well in heaven and on planet earth. For what does Peter say about him: "The devil is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." And Revelation says regarding him "the devil who accuses them day and night has been cast down to the earth." Obviously he and his angels are still around until the end of the age, where at which time scripture states that Satan will be cast into the Abyss during Christ's thousand year reign. At the end of that thousand years Satan will be released for one last rebellion and then will be thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown into a thousand years earlier, where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Therefore, though Ezekiel would seem to be saying that Satan ceases to exist, we have other scriptures that demonstrate the opposite. Therefore, the reference in Ezekiel cannot mean what others have interpreted it to mean.


Blessings to you in Christ!

 

[Hizikyah]

Hello again!

I'm guessing that you are referring to the following:

"So I thrust you from the mountain of Yah, and I destroyed you, O covering keruḇ, from the midst of the stones of fire."

"Therefore I brought forth fire from your midst. It has devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth before the eyes of all who see you. All who knew you among the peoples were astonished at you. Waste you shall be, and cease to be, forever.”

First of all and as I made known in the previous post, we tend to give another definition to the translated words that we are reading. Satan and his angels' rebellion took place prior to the creation of mankind. Yet we have Satan appearing before God in the case of Job and all that Satan did to him and his family. Therefore, Satan would have to be existing in order to perform all that he did against Job.

The first verse states that at the time Satan rebelled that God drove him out of God's holy mountain and destroyed him. Yet, we continue to see Satan appearing throughout scripture, even into the book of Revelation, where it is said that he accuses believers day and night. It also shows Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth 3 1/2 years prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

When God says "Waste you shall be, and cease to be, forever.” Based on the fact that other scriptures show that Satan still exists, then I would suggest that he will cease to be, forever, from his position of being the covering cherubim, opposed to not existing. Again, we have to take cross-reference and compare other scriptures in order to have a full understanding of this. That said, the fact that Satan's end has him being thrown into the lake of fire where he will be tormented day and night forever and ever, would not support his ceasing to exist as in being annihilated.

Whether angels or human beings, those consigned to the lake of fire cannot experience torment day and night forever and ever unless they are existing. You see these other words in the context "torment, day and night, forever and ever" support on-going punishment.

Therefore, the information in Ezekiel is superseded by the fact that Satan is shown to be alive and well in heaven and on planet earth. For what does Peter say about him: "The devil is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." And Revelation says regarding him "the devil who accuses them day and night has been cast down to the earth." Obviously he and his angels are still around until the end of the age, where at which time scripture states that Satan will be cast into the Abyss during Christ's thousand year reign. At the end of that thousand years Satan will be released for one last rebellion and then will be thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown into a thousand years earlier, where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Therefore, though Ezekiel would seem to be saying that Satan ceases to exist, we have other scriptures that demonstrate the opposite. Therefore, the reference in Ezekiel cannot mean what others have interpreted it to mean.


Blessings to you in Christ!

Wow, thank you for the well thought reply. So my view is simplythat since Yah knows the beginning from the end, He declared that satan is "already" destroyed, even though it is future and still future on thiscurrent day, for hIM hE DECLARES IT AS CERTIAN AS DONE. Just the way i see it, with that said, either way it is not a topic that is repeated from diffent angles over and over, May we all seek to learn and hold the truth of Yah that we may be His.

halleluYah! that we can even dwell on him!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Wow, thank you for the well thought reply. So my view is simplythat since Yah knows the beginning from the end, He declared that satan is "already" destroyed, even though it is future and still future on thiscurrent day, for hIM hE DECLARES IT AS CERTIAN AS DONE. Just the way i see it, with that said, either way it is not a topic that is repeated from diffent angles over and over, May we all seek to learn and hold the truth of Yah that we may be His.

halleluYah! that we can even dwell on him!

Yes, you are correct! God's judgment, which he proclaimed long ago, even before mankind came about, was final. And that judgment pronounced on him will be fulfilled at the end of the millennial period when he and his angels are cast into the lake of fire. Jesus himself revealed Satan and his angels punishment that was previously given:

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Eternal fire refers to those who will be suffering in it, never ending, fire that will never go out, which as the verse above demonstrates was created for Satan and his angels and which will also be the punishment for all human beings who have followed his ways.

Satan's demise has already been proclaimed by God and will find its fulfillment at the end of the millennial period.

 

[Hizikyah]

Yes, you are correct! God's judgment, which he proclaimed long ago, even before mankind came about, was final. And that judgment pronounced on him will be fulfilled at the end of the millennial period when he and his angels are cast into the lake of fire. Jesus himself revealed Satan and his angels punishment that was previously given:

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Eternal fire refers to those who will be suffering in it, never ending, fire that will never go out, which as the verse above demonstrates was created for Satan and his angels and which will also be the punishment for all human beings who have followed his ways.

Satan's demise has already been proclaimed by God and will find its fulfillment at the end of the millennial period.

Yes, I agree, eternal fire.

The Last Great day!

Zephaniah 1:14-18, “14, "Near is the great day of יהוה, near and hurrying greatly, the noise of the day of יהוה. Let the mighty man then bitterly cry out!"15, "That day is a day of wrath, a day of distress and trouble, a day of waste and ruin, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,"16, "a day of a shophar and sounding – against the walled cities and against the corner towers."17, "“And I shall bring distress on men, and they shall walk like blind men – because they have sinned against יהוה, and their blood shall be poured out like dust and their flesh like dung.”"18, "Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of יהוה. And by the fire of His jealousy all the earth shall be consumed, for He makes a sudden end of all those who dwell in the earth."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which YHWH has prepared for those who love Him."

Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away."


halleluYah!

 

[PolarBerry]

I just want to make a comment about my opinion of the Old Testament, I think it is absolute crap. It is in my opinion Jesus of Nazareth realized this and came to a conclusion to put an end to the oppression that came from the Jewish Churches. Because how can one repent and cleanse themselves over and over by giving the Jewish Church burnt offerings? The burnt offerings should have been given to the victims; or the sinners should have repented and God would have taught them through spiritual uncleanliness why what they were doing was wrong. Plus what makes killing animals a worthy sacrifice?

I think Jesus realized this and decided to sacrifice his life to prove that the Old Testament was wrong and teach new teachings. Jesus probably read the prophecy of the Messiah and decided to claim that he was it and that he was the Son of God, certain members of the Jewish Church chose to slander and test him instead of hear his teachings, ponder over it, and make a conclusion. Although however it does appear Jesus has trouble teaching everyone precisely everything he had learned and knew equally because it just seems like an impossibility for human standards.

What do you think? Keep an open mind because of all the revisions, uncertain facts, and what appear to be flaws in the Bible.

 

[Hizikyah]

I just want to make a comment about my opinion of the Old Testament, I think it is absolute crap. It is in my opinion Jesus of Nazareth realized this and came to a conclusion to put an end to the oppression that came from the Jewish Churches. Because how can one repent and cleanse themselves over and over by giving the Jewish Church burnt offerings? The burnt offerings should have been given to the victims; or the sinners should have repented and God would have taught them through spiritual uncleanliness why what they were doing was wrong. Plus what makes killing animals a worthy sacrifice?

I think Jesus realized this and decided to sacrifice his life to prove that the Old Testament was wrong and teach new teachings. Jesus probably read the prophecy of the Messiah and decided to claim that he was it and that he was the Son of God, certain members of the Jewish Church chose to slander and test him instead of hear his teachings, ponder over it, and make a conclusion. Although however it does appear Jesus has trouble teaching everyone precisely everything he had learned and knew equally because it just seems like an impossibility for human standards.

What do you think? Keep an open mind because of all the revisions, uncertain facts, and what appear to be flaws in the Bible.

I believe there is no error in the original manuscripts but in copying, translating and intrepreting them is were error comes in...

With thatsaid, Yahshua/Jesus taught directly out of the OT;

John/Yahanan 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Matt 5:18-20, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens."5:20, "“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees,g you shall by no means enter into the reign of the heavens."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”

And spke againt something called the Talmub which is man made Jewish law not found in Scripture but made up themselves;

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until Yahchanan(John), since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

New International Version - Mt 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible - Mt 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to YHWH's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud. The Savior said this to the Pharisees;

Mat 23:8, “But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi, (master)’ for One is your Master, the Messiah, and you are all brothers.”

Matt 23:33, "Serpents! Brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of Gehenna?"

Yahshua EXPOSED the Pharisees and their false religious system EVERY CHANCE HE GOT. He did not sit by and let people lies many need to re-read the words of the Messiah, and see how He tore apart the lies of the accepted religious system of that day every chance He had, Is it possible we today have the same issue, where main stream religions are teaching tradition rather than truth?

Mat 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14)* prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

*Isayah 29:13-14, "Therefore YHWH said: Because these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their reverence to Me is taught by the precept of men; Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people; a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men, will be hid."

John 7:16-19, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority. He who speaks on his own seeks his own glory; but He Who seeks the glory of the One Who sent Him, He is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. Was not the Law given to you through Mosheh? And yet none of you keep the Law! Why do you seek to kill Me?"

 

[loveme1]

Polarberry... have you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation page upon page precept upon precept?

 

[Ahwatukee]

I think Jesus realized this and decided to sacrifice his life to prove that the Old Testament was wrong and teach new teachings.

Excuse me PoloarBerry, but Jesus is the author of the old and new testaments. "In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God."

"For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." - 2 Pet.1:21

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work. "

All of the prophesies regarding the Lord's first coming and when He comes to end the age, are written in the OT, and find fulfillment in the new.

Regarding what you said in the very first line of your post, I would go to my knees before God on that one, because of what you called His word.

 

[PolarBerry]

[FONT=&quot]I believe there is no error in the original manuscripts but in copying, translating and intrepreting them is were error comes in...[/FONT]

Sure, you're absolutely entitled to your own belief, but we are trying to figure out what is fact are we not? My belief seems to be closer to modern day science, which God appears to be approving of considering science is dominant in today's society. I am pushing towards science coming to an unanimous conclusion that a God exists.

Polarberry... have you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation page upon page precept upon precept?

No, I skipped through a lot of parts of the Old Testament that I believe were written monotonous and suspiciously difficult to read. Why would you write something so difficult to read if children are the future and need to be able to read it as well?

 

[PolarBerry]

Excuse me PoloarBerry, but Jesus is the author of the old and new testaments. "In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God."

"For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." - 2 Pet.1:21

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work. "

All of the prophesies regarding the Lord's first coming and when He comes to end the age, are written in the OT, and find fulfillment in the new.

Regarding what you said in the very first line of your post, I would go to my knees before God on that one, because of what you called His word.

I have no idea what you are saying please write in modern English and back it by science or logic so I may understand.