Where are the Elements for Eternal Salvation?

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Oct 8, 2017
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#1
“He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day“.John 6:55

“Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.” John 6:54

If it is a matter of indifference what a man believes, assuming he is a “decent person” then it was absolutely useless for God to make any revelation. If someone is free to reject what God reveals, what purpose was it for Christ to send forth His Apostles and disciples to teach all nations, if those nations can freely believe whatever they desire? This would be insulting to the very nature of God. If God makes a point to reveal something through Divine Revelation (by miracle or prophecy) He wants it to be believed. Mankind is bound by his conscience among other things, to believe what God has revealed. Man is also bound to worship God with his reason and intellect along with his heart and will. God owns everything He has given us, we are only stewards of these gifts in our lives and are to use them for His glory alone and not ours. There should be no man and certainly not a Christian who rightly asserts that we are not bound to believe what God has has revealed and taught. This religious indifferentism (more in a later writing), is heretical to everything Christ has put before us as our God, and is a rejection of the one true religion revealed by Him.
True Faith as stated by the majority of Protestants, is to believe in the Lord Jesus. Catholics agree with this as well, they share the belief that Jesus is the Son of the Living God and that we must believe all that He has revealed and taught us to have True Faith. Without which, there is no salvation, no hope of Heaven, and eternal damnation as we have Jesus’ own words for it. If Jesus under that pains of Hell commands me to believe what He has taught, then He must provide a means in which to learn and understand His teachings. This has to be a means that is present at all times, through all ages, and to every type of person smart or ignorant, all over the world. This means must teach without error, because if it did not, it would surely not be a means for salvation at all. Both Catholics and Protestants state that Christ has provided such a means, but where they differ is the means in and of itself. Protestants state it is the whole Bible and nothing but the Bible, while Catholics state it is the Church of the Living God.

Suppose God had intended for mankind to learn His religion from a book. Would not have Jesus given us all books? Perhaps, He would have instructed His Apostles to “write Bibles and give them to everyone so they can figure out what works best for their salvation.” Instead Christ said, “Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” If Christ had stated the former, there would have been no Christianity, just confusion. As we can see from history however, THAT did not start happening until the 16th century. Ever since then, religion after religion, and church after church popped up all fighting against each other due to private interpretations of the Bible.

Christ never even gave His Apostles the command to write anything down. They went forth and preached everywhere, planted the Church of God throughout the earth, never writing during Our Lord’s time on Earth.

1.) St. Matthew – wrote about 7 years after Christ left the Earth for the benefit of a few people. So there was a Church that had already existed for 7 years prior to that.

2.) St. Mark – wrote about 10 years after Christ.

3.) St. Luke – wrote about 25 years after Christ.

4.) St. John – wrote about 63 years after Christ. And he wrote the last portion of what is in the Bible, the Book of Revalation, about 65 years after Christ. So the Catholic (comes from Hebrew “Catholo” or universal), Church had existed for 65 years prior to this point.

If anyone during anytime was to be considered Christian, it was these direct followers of Jesus Christ Himself. They were the pillars on which Christ built His Church. How were they suppose to know how to achieve salvation if they were in the process of writing parts of the Bible? Would Jesus have left His Church 65 years without a teacher if the Bible is suppose to be that? The answer is no, God would not do that. Out of these men, maybe St. John read the Bible, but no other did, everyone of them died martyrs and heroes for the Church of Jesus Christ. They knew how to save their souls just as true Catholics do today, from the teachings of the Church of God.

For over 300 years the Church that Christ established at the Last Supper spread itself all over the world without the Bible. No one even knew what books constituted the Bible at this time. During the time of the Apostles many false gospels and epistles were being spread. Gospels such as Simon, Nicodemus, of Mary, of Barnabus, and the Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus were all being spread amongst people who had no way of knowing which were truly inspired and which were false. Even those more learned disputed their validity.

In the 4th century the Pope of Rome, Head of the Church, succesor of St. Peter, brought together all the Bishops of the world into a council. The decision was made to decide which books constituted the Bible which is how we Catholics have it now. The Gospels that did not display sufficient evidence of Divine Inspiration from the Holy Ghost were rejected. Until this point in history the Bible was unknown to the whole world. There was no Bible to guide anyone. It is impossible to believe that Christ would leave the human race without a book for salvation if that was His intended means to learn His religion. And not just for 300 years was the Christian world left without the Bible but for over 1400 years!

The printing press was invented in the middle of the 1400s, about 100 years before there was a Protestant in the world. Before the printing press was invented, Bibles were rare and costly things. Historians will tell you that only about 1,000 years ago, Bibles were so rare and costly that it took a fortune for one to buy himself a copy. Everything had to be written by hand with pen, upon parchment or sheepskin. It was very tedious, slow, and costly. Historians also state that it took approximately 20 years to hand copy a Bible, if someone were paid even just a dollar a day that would amount $8,000. With todays standards of minimum wage that would be well over $300,000! How could people afford such a thing so necessary to the salvation of their souls? Before printing it is estimated that not even 1 in 20,000 people owned a copy of the Bible. Why would Jesus make it so hard for men if He intended for the Bible to be the end all be all for eternal salvation?

Supposing that every person did have a Bible, what good would it do those who could not read? As the Bible was also written in Greek or Hebrew, what good would it do for someone who could not understand these languages? Even as today it is translated into English, French, and many other languages; how are we to know whether or not these translations are faithful to the original text? If they are not, then it is no longer the Word of God but a false translation. Most people have to depend on the opinions of the learned. But if learned opinions vary and often contradict one another on how the Word of God is to be translated, than who is correct? There are a great number of Protestant layman, preachers, and bishops, who have written whole volumes on errors contained in different versions, the King James Version alone is said to have over 30,000 errors. How can one be so sure of eternal salvation with 30,000 errors?

Assuming the problem of unfaithful translations is completely out of the picture, and everyone had enough money to procure faithful translations of the Word of God for use in private interpretation; who’s interpretation is correct? How are you to save your soul if you hesitate and doubt certain people’s interpretation of Scripture? Throughout the world there are over 350 different denominations or churches that all state the Bible is their guide and teacher. However, just as truth is one, God is one, there can be no contradiction. Protestants state that the man who reads the Bible right and prayerfully has truth, and they all say they read it right.

Scenario:

Let us suppose there is an Episcopal minister. He is a sincere, honest,, well-meaning and prayerful man. He reads his Bible in prayerful spirit, and from the word of the Bible, he concludes that it is clear there must be Bishops. For without Bishops there can be no priests, without priests no Sacraments, and without Sacraments no Church. The Presbyterian is a sincere and well-meaning man. He reads the Bible also, and deduces that there should be no bishops, but only presbyters. “Here is the Bible to give you the lie,” says the Presbyterian. Yet both of them are prayerful and well-meaning men.

Then the Baptist comes in. He is a well-meaning, honest man, and prayerful also. “Well,” says the Baptist, “have you ever been baptized?” “I was,” says the Episcopalian, “when I was a baby.” “And so was I,” says the Presbyterian, “when I was a baby.” “But,” says the Baptist, “you are going to Hell as sure as you live.”

Next comes the Unitatrian, well-meaning, honest, and sincere. “Well,” says the Unitarian, “allow me to tell you that you are a pack of idolators. You worship a man for a God who is no God at all.” And he gives several texts from the Bible to prove it, while the others are stopping their ears that they may not hear the blasphemies of the Unitarian. And all of them contend that they have the true version of the Bible.

Next comes the Methodist, and he says, “My friends, have you got any religion at all?” “Of course we have,” they say. “Did you ever feel religion,” says the Methodist, “the spirit of God moving within you?” “Nonsense,” says the Presbyterian, “we are guided by our reason and judgement.” “Well,” says the Methodist, “if you have never felt religion, you never had it, and will go to Hell for eternity.”

The Universalist next comes in, and hears them threatening one another with external hellfire. “Why,” says he, “you are a strange set of people. Do you not understand the Word of God? There is no Hell at all. That idea is good enough to scare old women and children,” and he proves it from the Bible.

And now comes in the Quaker. He urges them not to quarrel, and advises that they do not baptize at all. He is the sincerest of men, and gives the Bible for his faith.

Another comes in and says, “Baptize the men and leave the women alone. For the Bible says, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. “So,” says he, “the women are all right, but baptize the men.”

Next comes in the Shaker and he says, “You are presumptuous people. Do you know that the Bible tells you that you must work out your salvation in fear and trembling, and you do not tremble at all. My brethren, if you want to go to Heaven shake, my brethren, shake!”

End

So in this scenario we see seven or eight different denominations, all differing from each other as to what is essential for salvation. All using whatever version of the Bible, illustrative private interpretation to justify their reasoning, and opinions. What if one were to bring over 350 different denominations that exist in the world? All taking the Bible as their guide and teacher, and all differing from each other. Are they all right? Some believe in Hell, some do not. Some believe Christ is God, others do not. Some believe Baptism is essential, some do not. All cannot be true.

Who, then, is correct? He who has the true meaning of the Bible? The Bible never tells us who holds the true meaning, it never settles that quarrel because it is not the teacher. The Bible is a good book, we Catholics admit the Bible is the inspired word of God (Jesus being the actual Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us), the language of inspiration, but your explanation of the Bible is not the language of inspiration. Your understanding of the Bible is not inspired, for surely you do not pretend to inspired!

When the Constitution in the United States was established George Washington did not say, “Let every man read the Constitution and make a government unto himself. Let every man make his own explanation of the Constitution.” If Washington had done that, there would have never been a United States, it would have been a Divided States. Instead the Constitution along with Supreme Law, was given to the American people. A Supreme Court and Judges were appointed to provide the true explanation of the Constitution for everyone from President to homeless Veteran. In fact its a three tier check and balance system (3 is a good number, remanant of The Blessed Trinity), if anyone takes the Constitution and laws into their own hands and are not kept in check, anarchy ensues.

Every government is of this way, a Constitution and a Supreme Court or Judge that gives the meaning of this Constitution. Someone visible that you can go to, lay complaints or questions before. Our Divine Lord established His Supreme Court, His Supreme Judge, “Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.” (Matthew 18:18) It gives us the true meaning of Scriptures, The Son of the Living God has pledged His Word that His Court is infallible, and therefore, the TRUE Catholic never doubts.

“I believe,” says the Catholic, “because the Church teaches me so. I believe the Church because God commanded me to believe her.” Jesus said: “Tell the Church. And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.” (Matthew 18:17) “He that believeth you believeth Me. He that despiseth you despiseth Me.” (Luke 10:) Sadly everyone despises the Church nowadays and there has always been great adversity towards it. The Catholic believes because God has spoken, and upon the authority of God.

Protestants say, “We believe in the Bible.” They understand it to the best of their opinions as those who came before them (most broke off from the Church for some personal gain), and use private interpretation. This is only a testimony of man, therefore it is only human faith, not Divine Faith or taking God’s Word for something. It is Divine Faith alone by which we give honor and glory to God, by which we adore His infinte wisdom and veracity. That adoration and worship is necessary for salvation.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#2
“He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day“.John 6:55

“Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.” John 6:54
Hello TradCat4Christ, and Welcome.

Evidently you have presented the Roman Catholic position on the Lord's Supper in quoting those verses. Catholics believe that the elements of the Mass are supernaturally converted into the Body and Blood of Christ -- "the real presence" of Christ. Non-Catholics believe that the meaning of those verse is to be applied spiritually in that sinners are to "receive" Christ into their hearts and souls by faith, and He does come in and dwell within.

So this would be a spiritual "eating and drinking", which would correspond to Revelation 3:20: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Thus the Lord's Supper becomes both a Memorial Feast ("do this in remembrance of men") and a proclamation of the Gospel ("ye do shew the Lord's death"), as well as His second coming ("till He come"). And Christ is really and truly present with those partaking of the Lord's Supper, but not in the elements themselves.

The critical difference between the Catholic Church and non-Catholics is the matter of justification by grace through faith. The RCC does not accept this doctrine altogether, and this is the key issue regarding eternal salvation. Thus water baptism becomes necessary for salvation as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:

VI.
The Necessity of Baptism
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.
He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.


The majority of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians will not accept that, although the Church of Christ does. We believe that water baptism is a command to be obeyed immediately after conversion, and is necessary for the believer for many reasons. But not for salvation.
 
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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#3
Christ never even gave His Apostles the command to write anything down. They went forth and preached everywhere, planted the Church of God throughout the earth, never writing during Our Lord’s time on Earth.

Wasn't the Old Testament already written? Seems Jesus was quoted on numerous occasions in the gospels as asking if it was not written, or if they have not read in the scriptures. So why did he give the following as one of the signs of the end?

And the gospel must first be published among all nations. Mark 13:10


So why would Jesus charge them to tell no man?

And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it;
Mark 7:36


30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it. 31 But they, when they were departed, spread abroad his fame in all that country.
Matthew 9


So why did he charge his disciples not to tell any man that he was the Christ?

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Matthew 16


29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ. 30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
Mark 8:29-30


20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
21 And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;
Luke 9:20-21

Who, then, is correct? He who has the true meaning of the Bible? The Bible never tells us who holds the true meaning, it never settles that quarrel because it is not the teacher.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: John 16:13
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
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#4
church traditions and teachings contradict themselves....... and what happens when they contradict the bible??????

praying to mary and saints isnt biblical, its tradition that developed hundreds of years after Jesus death and resurrection u see......

john 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

i know augustine is considered a saint in catholic church but for some reason his teachings arent church tradition????? he believed in eternal security u see..... here is proof:

"what Christian is not aware that he [the devil] seduces nations even now, and draws them with himself to eternal punishment, but not those predestined to eternal life? And let no one be dismayed by the circumstance that the devil often seduces even those who have been regenerated in Christ, and begun to walk in God's way. For "the Lord knoweth them that are His," and of these the devil seduces none to eternal damnation," (Augustine, The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 7).

(i got this from carm.org)
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
22
18
#5
We greatly and grievously reduce the content of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God if we strip it down to justification and forgiveness of sins. Let us not obsess about personal well-being but about Father, Son and Holy Spirit and the fullness of their rule and reign over everyone, everywhere, always.

When we walked the dusty roads of Israel and Palestine, Jesus used physical things to accomplish spiritual work. He used spit and mud to heal blind eyes. Should it be a problem if He ordains water to be used as a means to receive the graces of baptism or bread and wine as a means to receive the graces of the Eucharist?
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
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#6
We greatly and grievously reduce the content of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God if we strip it down to justification and forgiveness of sins. Let us not obsess about personal well-being but about Father, Son and Holy Spirit and the fullness of their rule and reign over everyone, everywhere, always.

When we walked the dusty roads of Israel and Palestine, Jesus used physical things to accomplish spiritual work. He used spit and mud to heal blind eyes. Should it be a problem if He ordains water to be used as a means to receive the graces of baptism or bread and wine as a means to receive the graces of the Eucharist?
isnt the Gospel all about the redemption of God's people????

scriptures are clear that you "receive the graces" by faith:

[h=1]Ephesians 2:5-9King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[/FONT]

[h=1]Romans 3:21-25King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#7
Here is the simple revelation that you should dwell and focus on;

Ephesians 2:8-10
[FONT=&quot]8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.[/FONT]
 
Oct 8, 2017
26
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#8
I would suggest Exodus Chapter 16. It's funny how when one looks at the old testament in comparison to the Catholic Church it mirrors it pretty closely. Even now as the Mystical Body of Christ undergoes it's Passion and suffering since the 2nd Vatican Council which saw the outward structure of the Church infiltrated by communists and free masons and the third secret of Fatima suppressed. I would suggest a book called the Devils Final Battle. Great for non-Catholics to read too

Hello TradCat4Christ, and Welcome.

Evidently you have presented the Roman Catholic position on the Lord's Supper in quoting those verses. Catholics believe that the elements of the Mass are supernaturally converted into the Body and Blood of Christ -- "the real presence" of Christ. Non-Catholics believe that the meaning of those verse is to be applied spiritually in that sinners are to "receive" Christ into their hearts and souls by faith, and He does come in and dwell within.

So this would be a spiritual "eating and drinking", which would correspond to Revelation 3:20: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Thus the Lord's Supper becomes both a Memorial Feast ("do this in remembrance of men") and a proclamation of the Gospel ("ye do shew the Lord's death"), as well as His second coming ("till He come"). And Christ is really and truly present with those partaking of the Lord's Supper, but not in the elements themselves.

The critical difference between the Catholic Church and non-Catholics is the matter of justification by grace through faith. The RCC does not accept this doctrine altogether, and this is the key issue regarding eternal salvation. Thus water baptism becomes necessary for salvation as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:

VI.
The Necessity of Baptism
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.
He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.


The majority of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians will not accept that, although the Church of Christ does. We believe that water baptism is a command to be obeyed immediately after conversion, and is necessary for the believer for many reasons. But not for salvation.
 
Oct 8, 2017
26
0
0
#9
As well everyone is baptized into the Catholic Church as it was a sacrament first instituted by the Church through Christ (along with 6 others sacraments), they become dead members when they defect
 
Oct 8, 2017
26
0
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#10
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
[John 8:32]

Once again the The Holy Ghost does not propagate error.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#12
Trad, the Bible says we can know that we are indeed saved, so, having read the following on your profile, I would just like to assure you that you do not have to live in uncertainty

talking about this, from your profile:

Born and raised Catholic, saved when only God judges me to be so. I do not live in presumption or pride of declaring myself to be saved
 
Oct 8, 2017
26
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#13
These works are in reference to the works of men...​Nowhere in the bible does it state faith “alone” justifies, and this new doctrine was not heard of before the 16th century. Why did the Protestant reformers propose it and what authority gave it to them?

Consider the verse, “Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in. Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.” Matthew 25:34-36. Are these not examples of good works?

Why would Our Lord give them so much emphasis if only faith was of importance?

Consider the verses, “And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith to him: All these I have kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me? Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me.” Matt 19:16-21. Are the above verses not filled with good works?

How much more proof from Scripture do we need to show that Our Lord commanded us to do good works for our salvation?

Consider the verse, “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.” Matthew 16:27. Again here we have more proof that good works are required of us.

Consider the verse, “And every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labor.” 1 Corinthians 3:8. Again this clearly does NOT refer to faith alone, but to labor, which is works.

Consider the verse, “And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.” 1 Corinthians 13:2 (St Paul). What is charity other than helping the needy? Charity is clearly considered among good works. And in the same Chapter we also see the verse, “And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.” (1 Corinthians 13:13). This clearly puts charity BEFORE faith, so to say “faith alone” is all that is required of us is clearly contrary to Scripture.

Consider the verse, “Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?” James 2:24. How much more plain can it be said that faith alone is not enough for our salvation?

Consider the verse, “What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?” James 2:14. And we see several verses later that the answer to this question is NO.

Consider the verse, “So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.” James 2:17. No explanation is needed for this verse!

Consider the verse, “But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.” James 2:18. Another extremely obvious verse that proves our point on the subject.

Consider the verses, “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?” James 2:20-21. No explanation is needed for these verses.

Consider the verse, “For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.” James 2:26. How can the Protestant reformers claim faith is sufficient when we read a verse like this with such obvious meaning?

And finally consider the verse, “Wherefore, brethren, labor the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election.” 2 Peter 1:10

In summary, justification by faith alone has overwhelming opposition in Scripture. Some Protestants have been known to reference other verses from Scripture in an attempt to show that works are NOT required for our salvation. However if one looks at verses that appear to speak negatively about works, they are clearly referring to works that glorify men and not God. Here we agree; works done to please men do not help with attaining our salvation.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
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#14
sekkluud mon this wont last for long u see........ this fforum isnt roman catholic.

also what u say in ur profile that u dont say ur saved????? well why should i believe u then if ur a lost man by ur own words LOL........ if ur saved u can know ur saved the bible teaches that.

this is why roman catholicism is so toxic and wrong its like ur playing roulette on your soul u see..... no assurance of salvation is ever possible in the false salvation plan....... the transubstatiation ting also is pretty retarded because the bible forbids us from eating blood.
why do u choose to literalize the symbolic and symbolize the literal???????
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#15
Http://tradcat4christ.com the institution that calls itself the Catholic Church today, is not the the true Church. It is underground continuing its faithfulness out of the public eye mirroring the humility of its Founder. I would suggest reading a book called the Devils Final Battle, or Tumultuous Times. If one truly knows the Catholic Faith as defined by the Council of Trent then how could you put that side by side with the Second Vatican Council and say it's the same thing. There has not been a true pope since 1958 i invite you to explore this link FrancisQuotes.com - Home as well thank you
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#16
You have four different accounts that all state "This IS my body and this IS my blood," the words of God. Not "This REPRESENTS MY BODY or blood." As well when the Jews wandered the dessert for 40 years and survived off of the white mana that rained from Heaven every morning, Christ stated to the Pharisees that He was that mana
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#18
ok so no true pope for a long time...... so the plot twist is this: even the catholics are heretics....... u gotta belong to some small subsect of catholicism to be saved........ the true catholics.

do u have any leader with a funny hat????? cause if not im not convinced.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#19
If one truly knows the Catholic Faith as defined by the Council of Trent then how could you put that side by side with the Second Vatican Council and say it's the same thing.
While this is true, the fact remains that the Council of Trent was brought together to oppose Protestants. So you can see that your posts would have no relevance to non-Catholics. They would to Catholics who have been betrayed by their own leaders.
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#20
Everyone wants to live like a protestant, and die like a Catholic.