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Thread: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

  1. #21
    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to preterism. here's more:

    FOLLOWERS OF THE HERETIC - ORIGEN
    While surfing through a preterist web site, I saw positive references to the heretic by the name of Origen. This man wrote late in the 2nd century. He used the allegorical method of interpreting Scripture. Origen denied the Bible's historicity, eternal punishment, and salvation by grace. God, to Origen was abstract, inconceivable, and incomprehensible. Perhaps if Origen was saved then he may have understood a bit more about God and His nature. For more information on this false teacher see "Final Authority" by William P. Grady. Here is a question.. why then would the preterist's think so highly of such a false teacher such as Origen? Food for thought.

    The preterist has adopted the allegorical method to interpret Scripture as did Origen. The end result of this method of Bible study causes literal pieces of Scripture to be treated as figurative and thus nullified. Quite simply if the Scripture does not fit into the preterist belief formula then it is considered a figurative or a spiritualized piece of Scripture. Therefore the Scripture does not really mean what it says! Instead it means something in a figurative manner.

    An example of this would be used by the preterist or the amillennialist where they spiritualize Revelation chapter 20. In this chapter the 1000 year kingdom is mentioned many times. As previously stated, the allegorical method actually nullifies the Word of God by denying this Scripture is literal. They teach Revelation 20 is only figurative and dismiss the chapter as irrelevant. They deny there will be any 1000 year kindom and dismiss Revelation 20 in the same breath. You see the 1000 year kingdom is not literal to the preterist (or the amillennialist). So
    by using the allegorical method the preterist have successfully dismissed Revelation chapter 20 which clearly teaches a literal 1000 year kingdom. They would have been just as effective if they took their scissors and physically cut out Revelation chapter 20.
    Desertsrose likes this.

  2. #22
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by PennEd View Post
    What has been eye opening to me is how many DON'T take Scripture literally, and rely on their own intellect to decide what is literal and true and what isn't.

    It explains how so many Christians are anti- Israel, (even though they try and say they aren't). It drives them CRAZY that the Jews are back in the land. I have heard all sorts of bizarre reasons as to why and how they are there.

    They also can't understand why the world is going the exact course that dispensationalists, using Scripture, say it will. THE WORLD IS NOT GETTING BETTER. And it will continue to get worse until Jesus returns.

    One of THE most precise prophecies regarding end times, that no one can buy or sell without the mark, a cashless society, is LITERALLY right on our doorstep, yet so many who do not take the truths of the Bible literally refuse to believe.

    They believe Who Jesus is, and what He has done. So I'm guessing they are saved, but they have a RUDE awakening coming.
    I am living proof that it is not necessary to be dispensationalist to take the Bible literally; at least until it speaks about plucking out eyes: at which point I suspect we may have an example of didactic hyperbole.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    They said that? Where, when, and who?
    They didn't tell me.
    You'd think someone your age would have better manners, and sense, too.
    I don't know who the 'they' is either, but it seems 'they' may only be in contact with preterists

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    More from:

    Progressive

    Denial of the parenthetical nature of the church:

    "The older idea that the church was a parenthetical break between God’s Jewish work in the Old Testament and God’s Jewish work in the future is being replaced" (Christianity Today, 9/12/94, p. 28). Waltke: "[Progressive Dispensationalism] denies that the church is a parenthesis within God’s program for Israel."

    Saucy: "The present age is not a historical parenthesis unrelated to the history that precedes and follows it." "The church is seen less and less as a parenthesis in the divine program. Instead it is seen as vitally linked to and comprehended in the plan of God revealed in the Old Testament" (Blaising, Disp., Israel & the Church, p. 225 footnote).

    Many scholars now recognize "a present form of messianic kingdom that removes the parenthetical idea" (Burns, Disp., Israel & the Church, p. 225).

    "[Progressive Dispensationalism] denies that the church is a parenthesis within God’s program for Israel" (Waltke, Disp., Israel & the Church, p. 347).

    "The present age is not a historical parenthesis unrelated to the history that precedes and follows it; rather, it is an integrated phase in the development of the mediatorial kingdom" (Robert Saucy, The Case for Progressive Dispensationalism, p. 28). "You are correct to argue that we do not teach a parenthesis" (Bock).


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    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Jesus already returned, don't you know? well according to preterists anyway

    SECOND COMING OF JESUS
    The preterist believes that Jesus' second coming occurred in 70A.D. It was not a literal physical coming but rather some kind of a 'spiritual' return. Here is some of their reasons why:

    1) The Second Coming of Christ is directly stated as occurring in the space of the men then living
    2) The Second Coming of Christ is implied as being very near (meaning the lifetime of the disciples)
    3) The Judgment is also declared and implied as being within a short space

    To believe that Jesus has already returned requires a great deal of usage with the allegorical method of Bible study. You see there is all kinds of spiritualization required in order to claim Jesus actually returned to earth in A.D. 70.
    Desertsrose and He_reigns like this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    by using the allegorical method the preterist have successfully dismissed Revelation chapter 20 which clearly teaches a literal 1000 year kingdom. They would have been just as effective if they took their scissors and physically cut out Revelation chapter 20.
    Hey hey! Dont be giving them no ideas. Soon them bible pundits, experts and scholars will discover some long lost older manuscripts with no Revelation 20 in it, or some other nonsense.
    Ya never know with them guys.
    joefizz, 7seasrekeyed and Speak2Me like this.

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    More from the same artickle:


    Denial of the church as a mystery unrevealed in the Old Testament:


    "Their mystery concept of the church is not that it was unrevealed in the Old Testament but that it was unrealized. As a corollary, God has no separate program for the church. The church is simply a sub-category of the Kingdom. It is called a ‘sneak preview’ of the Kingdom.

    The church is the Kingdom today. In fact, David Turner calls the church ‘the new Israel’"
    (Manfred Kober, The Problematic Development of Progressive Dispensationalism, Faith Pulpit, April 1997).

    Progressives believe that "the concept of the church as completely distinct from Israel and as a mystery unrevealed in the Old Testament needs revising" (Ryrie, p. 164). "We hold to a different understanding of the term mystery—not always ‘new’ revelation" (Bock).


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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    Jesus already returned, don't you know? well according to preterists anyway

    SECOND COMING OF JESUS
    The preterist believes that Jesus' second coming occurred in 70A.D. It was not a literal physical coming but rather some kind of a 'spiritual' return. Here is some of their reasons why:

    1) The Second Coming of Christ is directly stated as occurring in the space of the men then living
    2) The Second Coming of Christ is implied as being very near (meaning the lifetime of the disciples)
    3) The Judgment is also declared and implied as being within a short space

    To believe that Jesus has already returned requires a great deal of usage with the allegorical method of Bible study. You see there is all kinds of spiritualization required in order to claim Jesus actually returned to earth in A.D. 70.
    In effect -- according to Preterists -- you can make any Scripture mean anything you please. All those cataclysmic cosmic events before the second coming of Christ are not a literal shaking of the heavens and the earth, but merely symbolical and allegorical for some very ordinary events. That is called *extraordinary interpretation* and that is why the Dispensationalists are hated so much.
    7seasrekeyed and Speak2Me like this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    More from the same artickle:

    Progressive Dispensationalists teach that Christ is already reigning on the throne of David in heaven, and that He assumed this throne at the time of the ascension.5 This view is in agreement with the teaching of George Ladd who wrote in 1974, "The exaltation of Jesus to the right hand of God means nothing less than His enthronement as messianic King" (Ryrie, p. 167).

    According to PD, the Davidic throne and the heavenly throne of our risen Lord at the right hand of the Father are one and the same. We have answered this by examining all relevant Scriptures in our paper entitled,
    Progressive Dispensationalism - When and Where Does Christ Sit Upon the Throne of David? (Middletown Bible Church publication). For another detailed treatment of the question see three articles by Mal Couch in The Conservative Theological Journal, March, June and September 1998. This is a three part series entitled, "Is Christ Now on the Throne of David?"

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    More from the same artickle:...
    Locutus, why don't you stop wasting your time attacking Dispensationalists and devote that time to a careful and thorough study of Bible prophecy (without your Preterist spectacles). The more you attack other Christians, the less credible you become. Go after the false apostles, false prophets, and false teachers instead, not genuine Christians who take the Bible in its plain literal sense.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    They said that? Where, when, and who?
    They didn't tell me.
    You'd think someone your age would have better manners, and sense, too.
    Do you think The Holy Spirit has the power to bring most of the world to Christ?
    Is He going to?
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
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    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Me critiquing your theology - venom and almost hatred

    You critiquing my theology - loving kindness and brotherly correction


    Since much of your posts are like this, I don't expect much sense coming from you. Or real theology.
    heartofdavid likes this.

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Locutus, why don't you stop wasting your time attacking Dispensationalists and devote that time to a careful and thorough study of Bible prophecy (without your Preterist spectacles).
    Not wasting my time - I looked at preterism through dispensational spectacles and could see preterism made more sense than the specs I was looking through.

    One day, maybe some of you will wake up to dispensational errors just as these progressive dispensationalists are doing.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by PennEd View Post
    What has been eye opening to me is how many DON'T take Scripture literally, and rely on their own intellect to decide what is literal and true and what isn't.

    It explains how so many Christians are anti- Israel, (even though they try and say they aren't). It drives them CRAZY that the Jews are back in the land. I have heard all sorts of bizarre reasons as to why and how they are there.

    They also can't understand why the world is going the exact course that dispensationalists, using Scripture, say it will. THE WORLD IS NOT GETTING BETTER. And it will continue to get worse until Jesus returns.

    One of THE most precise prophecies regarding end times, that no one can buy or sell without the mark, a cashless society, is LITERALLY right on our doorstep, yet so many who do not take the truths of the Bible literally refuse to believe.

    They believe Who Jesus is, and what He has done. So I'm guessing they are saved, but they have a RUDE awakening coming.
    You're right. Even the world that investigates things like the NWO knows more about the end times than they do, and they're not saved.
    PennEd likes this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Do you think The Holy Spirit has the power to bring most of the world to Christ?

    Absolutely. There is no genuine Christian who would (or could) deny that. The Great Commission is to go into ALL the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY CREATURE. Which means that the Holy Spirit would accompany the Gospel at the same time to convict and to convince all.
    Is He going to?

    No. Why? Because all will not obey the Gospel. And that is why we have these words of Christ (Mt 7:13,14).

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    PennEd, Billyd and Speak2Me like this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post

    Absolutely. There is no genuine Christian who would (or could) deny that. The Great Commission is to go into ALL the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY CREATURE. Which means that the Holy Spirit would accompany the Gospel at the same time to convict and to convince all.

    No. Why? Because all will not obey the Gospel. And that is why we have these words of Christ (Mt 7:13,14).

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    And I believe He is going to.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    Jesus already returned, don't you know? well according to preterists anyway

    SECOND COMING OF JESUS
    The preterist believes that Jesus' second coming occurred in 70A.D. It was not a literal physical coming but rather some kind of a 'spiritual' return. Here is some of their reasons why:

    1) The Second Coming of Christ is directly stated as occurring in the space of the men then living
    2) The Second Coming of Christ is implied as being very near (meaning the lifetime of the disciples)
    3) The Judgment is also declared and implied as being within a short space

    To believe that Jesus has already returned requires a great deal of usage with the allegorical method of Bible study. You see there is all kinds of spiritualization required in order to claim Jesus actually returned to earth in A.D. 70.
    I know. We're supposed to be in the millennial reign of Christ right now, & Jesus is ruling & reigning the Earth.
    So, where's the literal Jesus? He must be an allegory, too.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    I know. We're supposed to be in the millennial reign of Christ right now, & Jesus is ruling & reigning the Earth.
    So, where's the literal Jesus? He must be an allegory, too.

    they call it living in the kingdom

    it's a 'spiritual' reign

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    they call it living in the kingdom

    it's a 'spiritual' reign
    Do they also believe we will inherit the old earth?

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    Do they also believe we will inherit the old earth?
    since they appear not to believe in a literal physical resurrection, does it matter?

    anyway, here is more about 'living in the kingdom now'


    PARADISE IS NOW ON EARTH
    Preterists teach that paradise has been restored NOW in Christ. We are now living in the eternal Garden of Eden and we are able to directly communicate to God the Father. Remember the kingdom is a 'spiritual' one!...they say! Here is a thought: Can't the Kingdom be both a spiritual one and a literal one?

    Well, what else can I say: WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN! We are living in a Christ rejecting, sin filled planet called earth. God is saving souls and soon Jesus will return to setup His 1000 year LITERAL kingdom. To me the claim that we are now living in Eden is just foolish. But to the preterist, given to the allegorical method of Bible perversion, anything is possible.

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