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Thread: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    since they appear not to believe in a literal physical resurrection, does it matter?

    anyway, here is more about 'living in the kingdom now'


    PARADISE IS NOW ON EARTH
    Preterists teach that paradise has been restored NOW in Christ. We are now living in the eternal Garden of Eden and we are able to directly communicate to God the Father. Remember the kingdom is a 'spiritual' one!...they say! Here is a thought: Can't the Kingdom be both a spiritual one and a literal one?

    Well, what else can I say: WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN! We are living in a Christ rejecting, sin filled planet called earth. God is saving souls and soon Jesus will return to setup His 1000 year LITERAL kingdom. To me the claim that we are now living in Eden is just foolish. But to the preterist, given to the allegorical method of Bible perversion, anything is possible.
    Say Whaaaa... They believe this is as good as it gets?!? No wonder they hate Dispensationalists!

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    is there a hint of universalism here somewhere?

    I thought I might have caught a whiff of it.......

    wonder what the son of perdition thinks about that

    carry on

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    Say Whaaaa... They believe this is as good as it gets?!? No wonder they hate Dispensationalists!

    oh stop it

    I bet you've heard this all before LOL!

    nonetheless, as long as some will make 'sport' of those who do not believe Jesus has set up His kingdom and some will believe the end result is everyone is saved, might as well present the other side for fair analysis
    Speak2Me likes this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Do you think The Holy Spirit has the power to bring most of the world to Christ?
    Is He going to?
    Jesus said the way is narrow and FEW there be that find it. The bible teaches that in the last times it'll get worse and worse, not better and better.

    If ya got verses to prove a worldwide revival before Jesus returns im all ears.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    Jesus said the way is narrow and FEW there be that find it. The bible teaches that in the last times it'll get worse and worse, not better and better.

    If ya got verses to prove a worldwide revival before Jesus returns im all ears.
    God said it was His desire that the world, through Christ, would be saved. And Satan wants just the opposite. Can you agree with that?

    Yet, it sounds like you are saying Satan is stronger than God and has more power than Him, because you just said that Satan will thwart God's desires, and will take, by far, the vast majority of humans to Hell.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Senior Member Issachar92's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    God said it was His desire that the world, through Christ, would be saved. And Satan wants just the opposite. Can you agree with that?

    Yet, it sounds like you are saying Satan is stronger than God and has more power than Him, because you just said that Satan will thwart God's desires, and will take, by far, the vast majority of humans to Hell.
    High on logic low on verses. I provided a verse, you didnt.

    Lets play the logic game then: Why did God even create anything, knowing satan would rebel? There we go, logic game ended.
    dcontroversal and Speak2Me like this.

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    More from:

    Progressive

    Denial of the parenthetical nature of the church:

    "The older idea that the church was a parenthetical break between God’s Jewish work in the Old Testament and God’s Jewish work in the future is being replaced" (Christianity Today, 9/12/94, p. 28). Waltke: "[Progressive Dispensationalism] denies that the church is a parenthesis within God’s program for Israel."

    Saucy: "The present age is not a historical parenthesis unrelated to the history that precedes and follows it." "The church is seen less and less as a parenthesis in the divine program. Instead it is seen as vitally linked to and comprehended in the plan of God revealed in the Old Testament" (Blaising, Disp., Israel & the Church, p. 225 footnote).

    Many scholars now recognize "a present form of messianic kingdom that removes the parenthetical idea" (Burns, Disp., Israel & the Church, p. 225).

    "[Progressive Dispensationalism] denies that the church is a parenthesis within God’s program for Israel" (Waltke, Disp., Israel & the Church, p. 347).

    "The present age is not a historical parenthesis unrelated to the history that precedes and follows it; rather, it is an integrated phase in the development of the mediatorial kingdom" (Robert Saucy, The Case for Progressive Dispensationalism, p. 28). "You are correct to argue that we do not teach a parenthesis" (Bock).

    Progressive dispensationialism is closer to being biblical, imo.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    I completely agree with what Jesus told those Jews standing before Him. He did not say "A lot of people are going to go to Hell instead of Heaven." He, instead, in speaking to them about the way they were all told in Scripture they had to act in order to live God-pleasing lives was tough... and not many of them were doing it.

    Just like how He told them that their righteousness had to surpass that of the Pharisees and Scribes if they wanted to make it to Heaven.

    In both cases, He knew they were hopeless to make the grade. And THAT was the central point of His ministry..... That, the way they were going, hardly anyone could possibly make it. They all had to "REPENT" (that is 'change their minds', and instead, believe on Him instead of struggling on their own to be good.)............ BECAUSE that was the main reason He came to earth as a human... to live the perfect life, to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees and Scribes, to enter at that narrow gate, the way they (we) could never do.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    God said it was His desire that the world, through Christ, would be saved. And Satan wants just the opposite. Can you agree with that?

    Yet, it sounds like you are saying Satan is stronger than God and has more power than Him, because you just said that Satan will thwart God's desires, and will take,by far, the vast majority of humans to Hell.


    Willie,

    I think Jesus was pretty clear that the majority of people would not be saved.
    Determining who gets the blame for this is a separate issue.


    Mt. 7:13-14
    3 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    High on logic low on verses. I provided a verse, you didnt.

    Lets play the logic game then: Why did God even create anything, knowing satan would rebel? There we go, logic game ended.
    I've said it a dozen times here..... Anyone can "prove" anything (pro OR con.... and even reverse courses in mid stream) by selecting appropriately cherry-picked verses. The Catholics to the Westboro Baptists show that every day. Just because either of us uses the "proof verses" we were taught to use, actually proves nothing except that we listened in class and took some notes.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    so now this thread is about proof verses?

    that's hardly dispensationalist

    if someone believes everyone is going to be saved, I do believe they would be called a universalist

    and would also be fed with select grade A 'cherries' and a whole lotta stirring

  12. #52
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Willie,

    I think Jesus was pretty clear that the majority of people would not be saved.
    Determining who gets the blame for this is a separate issue.


    Mt. 7:13-14
    3 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


    I hope you read my post on this. I don't want to type it again.

    But you are smart enough to tell me what the "tense" is that Jesus used there. Was that addressing the future, or the situation as it was at the moment He was speaking to those Jews?

    I think Jesus knew how to say WILL if He meant how things would be in the future.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    so now this thread is about proof verses?

    that's hardly dispensationalist

    if someone believes everyone is going to be saved, I do believe they would be called a universalist

    and would also be fed with select grade A 'cherries' and a whole lotta stirring
    Sissy, please don't take this as me being snarky, just making an observation....

    But you were the one flooding this thread with full-preterism posts. I am not a full-preterist, either. But you were trying to derail this thread with full-preterism posts.
    notmyown likes this.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I've said it a dozen times here..... Anyone can "prove" anything (pro OR con.... and even reverse courses in mid stream) by selecting appropriately cherry-picked verses. The Catholics to the Westboro Baptists show that every day. Just because either of us uses the "proof verses" we were taught to use, actually proves nothing except that we listened in class and took some notes.


    Willie,

    I think there are a few problems with this argument, though I'm really not out to fight with you today, and I'm certainly not mad at you about anything.



    Logical Problems:

    Although it is true that you can use any scripture to "attempt" to prove any position,
    this does not make it more logically sound to stop using scripture altogether.

    In a courtroom people display pieces of evidence, and then they debate the significance of the evidence.
    Even if they disagree about the evidence, this is clearly more logical than debating with NO evidence.


    It is clearly more sound to debate the meaning of evidence, than to debate a bunch of nothing.
    Likewise, it is clearly more sound to debate the meaning of scripture, than to debate the meaning of nothing.



    Conclusions:

    * If you want to use this argument to discredit scriptural debate, I'll have to point out this argument is unsound.

    * If however, you just don't feeling like debating something, or you just want to voice your opinions and don't feel like supporting them... then I totally support your right to freely speak or not speak as much as you like.

    * Willie is perfectly free to hold his views, and debate, or not debate, and express his views however he wants...
    and we are perfectly free to disagree with him.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Supper's on........ Ya'll play nice while I'm gone.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    High on logic low on verses. I provided a verse, you didnt.

    Lets play the logic game then: Why did God even create anything, knowing satan would rebel? There we go, logic game ended.
    They can't quote what they don't know, or what they don't believe.

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    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I hope you read my post on this. I don't want to type it again.

    But you are smart enough to tell me what the "tense" is that Jesus used there. Was that addressing the future, or the situation as it was at the moment He was speaking to those Jews?

    I think Jesus knew how to say WILL if He meant how things would be in the future.


    Willie,

    It is perfectly normal, in language, to use a present tense verb when talking about something which is PRESENTLY HAPPENING, and WILL CONTINUE HAPPENING INTO THE FUTURE.

    We all use verbs like this all the time.

    I'm sure you're educated enough to be aware of the "present continuous" tense as opposed to the "present perfect" tense... and that these are also used in Greek.



    This is a very normal component of very normal speech.
    PennEd likes this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Sissy, please don't take this as me being snarky, just making an observation....

    But you were the one flooding this thread with full-preterism posts. I am not a full-preterist, either. But you were trying to derail this thread with full-preterism posts.
    Well said SG, rather than deal with the issues raised the woman either heckles or tries to derail the discussion with views from Covenant Eschatology - when challenged to give her opinion on verses from the bible raised she adds nothing.
    SovereignGrace likes this.

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    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Sissy, please don't take this as me being snarky, just making an observation....

    But you were the one flooding this thread with full-preterism posts. I am not a full-preterist, either. But you were trying to derail this thread with full-preterism posts.

    did you read them?

    I hope you found them helpful

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    did you read them?

    I hope you found them helpful
    But you're derailing the thread with FP propoganda. Its about PD, not FP.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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