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Thread: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

  1. #81
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Willie,

    I think the proper view of the opposition is NOT that the path to Jesus is "arduous", but rather, "few find it" because they simply don't want it.


    Hope you had a good dinner.

    Mine was something healthy that tasted like dirt... I'm not a good cook, lol.
    Whatzamatta, having trouble keeping an eye on it? Maybe between having one eye and A.D.D. you can't focus on your cooking
    Last edited by Speak2Me; October 12th, 2017 at 11:18 PM.
    maxwel and SovereignGrace like this.

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    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    OK, you got me there. It's amazing you have such accuracy with Bible history, yet don't seem to know some NT basics.
    Oh, I knew a whole bunch of NT basics real well (12 years of CoC Bible College, remember),,,, as I was taught they were. Until, I finally began to read the Bible without automatically seeing the words against that structured background. It wasn't easy. It took me almost a full year to have it come naturally that I might not already know everything as it actually was written, and NOT merely as I was told it was written.
    Last edited by Willie-T; October 12th, 2017 at 11:22 PM.
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    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    OK, you got me there. It's amazing you have such accuracy with Bible history, yet don't seem to know some NT basics.
    actually, maybe not

    Abraham is not Adam

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Oh, I knew a whole bunch of NT basics real well (12 years of CoC Bible College, remember),,,, as I was taught they were. Until, I finally began to read the Bible without automatically seeing the words against that structured background. It wasn't easy. It took me almost a full year to have it come naturally that I might not already know everything as it actually was written, and NOT merely as I was told it was written.
    So, what are you then, D.O.D., PHD? Should I call you Doctor Willy?

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    So, what are you then, D.O.D., PHD? Should I call you Doctor Willy?
    I wound up with some wallpaper, but I am just Willie. In fact, the only diplomas I display these days are for Civil Architecture and my GC license. Got a handful of Psych Certificates (no degrees there) but I hardly ever even admit to having them.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Senior Member Bladerunner's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Yes

    according to prophesy (literal) he will bring people from every nation to christ. He said it will happen, and it will. (The gospel will be spread to ALL nations"
    What prophecy are you talking about.... He has already brought Jesus Christ to all nations. This has been done for some time now. If you do not believe, read Colossians 1:23
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Yes

    according to prophesy (literal) he will bring people from every nation to christ. He said it will happen, and it will. (The gospel will be spread to ALL nations"
    Wasn't that mentioned as already having been done in Col. 1:23 (and also a couple of places in Romans)? Just more of my crazy idea that Revelation was actually written to them, about their time, not us.
    notmyown and Locutus like this.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Senior Member Waggles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    "The theological debate over dispensationalism may threaten DTS' pre-eminent position in the field, but the popularity of the idea of the Rapture and the ensuing Tribulation period continues to grow."

    Just goes to show how many people can be all wrong at the same time.
    There ain't going to be any rapture before the return of Jesus in power and glory
    with the angels.
    The only rapture happening is when those Christians deemed by God to be his church (bride)
    are raised up and transformed in a twinkling of an eye to be with our Lord (bridegroom) at the
    Marriage Feast.
    Until then we all gonna go through the violence and turmoil of catasrophes and nuclear war
    just as the scriptures tell us so.
    Those who endure to the end will save their souls.
    Those who quit and throw in the towel will forfeit their inheritance.

    So will praise and worship music or WOF mega churches give you the
    grounding and steadfastness required to endure?
    laura_charlotte likes this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    So, what are you then, D.O.D., PHD? Should I call you Doctor Willy?

    Easy now, there is no need to badmouth anyone.

    Willie-T and Laish like this.
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Waggles View Post
    "The theological debate over dispensationalism may threaten DTS' pre-eminent position in the field, but the popularity of the idea of the Rapture and the ensuing Tribulation period continues to grow."

    Just goes to show how many people can be all wrong at the same time.
    There ain't going to be any rapture before the return of Jesus in power and glory
    with the angels.
    The only rapture happening is when those Christians deemed by God to be his church (bride)
    are raised up and transformed in a twinkling of an eye to be with our Lord (bridegroom) at the
    Marriage Feast.
    Until then we all gonna go through the violence and turmoil of catasrophes and nuclear war
    just as the scriptures tell us so.
    Those who endure to the end will save their souls.
    Those who quit and throw in the towel will forfeit their inheritance.

    So will praise and worship music or WOF mega churches give you the
    grounding and steadfastness required to endure?
    I take it you are a post rapture kind of person.....
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Do you not believe that Satan rules most of the world, and that it will only get worse, no matter what Christians do, and that Satan would completely conquer even believers if Jesus doesn't come back to pull Christians out?
    According to many dispensationialsists, the Christ is not ruling now, Satan is.
    notmyown and Laish like this.
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    William Cranmer

    "For we love not God first, to compel Him to love again; but He loved us first, and gave His Son for us, that we might see love and love again."

    William Tyndale

    “Providence is wiser than you, and you may be confident it has suited all things better to your eternal good than you could do had you been left to your own option.”

    John Flavel

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    That just makes me jealous and sad, lol.
    You had cardboard au jus?
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    William Cranmer

    "For we love not God first, to compel Him to love again; but He loved us first, and gave His Son for us, that we might see love and love again."

    William Tyndale

    “Providence is wiser than you, and you may be confident it has suited all things better to your eternal good than you could do had you been left to your own option.”

    John Flavel

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Wasn't that mentioned as already having been done in Col. 1:23 (and also a couple of places in Romans)? Just more of my crazy idea that Revelation was actually written to them, about their time, not us.
    Willie-T.... I think Revelation was written to all times. In its 404 verses there are over 800 allusions to every book in the Bible (except maybe one). Unlike what you were taught in the CoC, if you read it from a literal Hermenuetics, it will tell you what you are still seeking... That is evident.
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    According to many dispensationialsists, the Christ is not ruling now, Satan is.

    Well, Yes Satan is the Prince of this world. Only when the 2nd Advent happens will that change.

    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    Well, Yes Satan is the Prince of this world. Only when the 2nd Advent happens will that change.

    Jesus is ruling now, and He has allowed Satan to blind the world, those who do not believe. That is the context of 2 Cor. 4:4.
    notmyown likes this.
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    William Cranmer

    "For we love not God first, to compel Him to love again; but He loved us first, and gave His Son for us, that we might see love and love again."

    William Tyndale

    “Providence is wiser than you, and you may be confident it has suited all things better to your eternal good than you could do had you been left to your own option.”

    John Flavel

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    A new form of dispensationalism, "progressive dispensationalism" is causing angst among the old die hard school of "thought":

    .......over the last 20 years a group of DTS dissidents led by Blaising and Darrell Bock have developed a variation of the system that they call progressive dispensationalism. Progressives argue that, in spite of the Rapture, Christians still have a stake in earth's future. "I think what you're seeing in the recent dispensationalism is a more reflective kind of engagement," says Bock, a DTS professor, "even a more nuanced kind of engagement with current culture in which it isn't all necessarily seen as bad, even though there is a lot to criticize."

    To an outsider, the theological differences between traditional and progressive dispensationalism may seem trivial, but the subtle repositioning of the progressives, including Kreider, Bock and Blaising, means that they are now in a crossfire, as disgruntled die-hards on the right add their voices to the clamor from the left. "I think that these guys are not real dispensationalists," says conservative theologian Tommy Ice.

    Ice is director of a dispensationalist think tank called the Pre-Trib Research Center, which recently relocated from Arlington to Falwell's Liberty University in Virginia. "They think they're making changes within the system, and I think they've changed the system."
    The theological debate over dispensationalism may threaten DTS' pre-eminent position in the field, but the popularity of the idea of the Rapture and the ensuing Tribulation period continues to grow.


    Sales of the Left Behind novels have exceeded $650 million since the first book appeared in 1996, and the series' success has inspired a raft of imitators, all part of a Christian merchandise industry that grew to $4.34 billion in 2004. What's harder to measure is the effect that the growing popularity of Dallas' brand of the Apocalypse may have on religion, popular culture and even world politics.

    Full artickle:

    The End Is Near | Dallas Observer

    All theological systems have flaws. The part that is sad is that the Left Behind ​novels is what is used as how people view thier theology, did they forget they are novels not books on theology. I remember when everyone was reading them and some of the things they would say, I would have to remind them that they are novels not theology books.
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    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    To use the Left Behind series as a model for Dispensational teaching is misguided, dishonest and is a classical strawman.
    The marks of Dispensational thought is a literal approach to Scripture and marking a distinction between Israel and the Church.
    It has very little to do with the sensationalism of Huey helicopters coming out of a bottomless pit lol.

    Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
    (Psa 20:7)






    "Sir, we wish to see Jesus."
    Jn 12:21


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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Jesus is ruling now, and He has allowed Satan to blind the world, those who do not believe. That is the context of 2 Cor. 4:4.
    When the Lord Jesus Christ literally rules this earth, Satan is BOUND and unable to do anything to anyone on earth. But at the moment Satan is free to be the "god" of this world, and a time will come (shortly) when Satan and the Antichrist will have TOTAL CONTROL of all the nations on earth and all humanity. It is all there is the Bible.
    John146 likes this.

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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Jesus is ruling now, and He has allowed Satan to blind the world, those who do not believe. That is the context of 2 Cor. 4:4.
    So much for ruling with a rod of iron!

    Anyone who thinks that Jesus is currently ruling doesn't understand that the Lord's reign will be literally on this earth and from the throne of king David. Not only that, but His reign doesn't begin until after the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments (wrath of God) have taken place.

    When the Lord rules, He will be in complete control. The nations will have been dismantled, Satan and his angels will be in the Abyss. And all of those who will have rejected Christ and worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark, will be killed when the Lord returns, with their spirits going into Hades. The knowledge of the Lord and obedience to Him will be world-wide.

    The Lord's reign during the literal thousand years is seen below in the scriptures that describe that period:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

    The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

    The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

    The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord a
    s the waters cover the sea.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    All of the above are characteristics that will exist during the thousand year reign of Christ and not one of those currently exists on planet earth.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: The End is Near for Dispensationalism - it's cracking apart..

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    What prophecy are you talking about.... He has already brought Jesus Christ to all nations. This has been done for some time now. If you do not believe, read Colossians 1:23
    Actually no it has not. There are a few more to go.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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