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Those who claim Reformed (Calvinist) theology are more philosophical than Biblical ignore the writings centered around that view of the Bible. There are several documents that give sections of the Bible backing up each point. Here are three of them and there are more. These are the best known ones.
Heidelberg Catechism
Canons of Dort
Westminster Confession
Arminians also have their own documents.
Beyond the core beliefs expressed in the Apostles Creed as Christians we need to be accepting of different views of the peripheral points and agree to disagree. Each denomination has its distinctives in this regard. As long as they don't affect salvation they are of lesser importance. It really does not matter if you believe God takes action today or not. Salvation doesn't depend on your belief about that. Only accepting Jesus as your savior makes a difference.
Heidelberg Catechism
Canons of Dort
Westminster Confession
Arminians also have their own documents.
Beyond the core beliefs expressed in the Apostles Creed as Christians we need to be accepting of different views of the peripheral points and agree to disagree. Each denomination has its distinctives in this regard. As long as they don't affect salvation they are of lesser importance. It really does not matter if you believe God takes action today or not. Salvation doesn't depend on your belief about that. Only accepting Jesus as your savior makes a difference.
If you will study compatiblism, your problem will be solved. Man has a will that freely moves within its nature, but can not and will not go beyond that. True freedom of the will is only found in the Christ(John 8 and Romans 8:2 for starters), and even in that freedom, we are confined to the confines of that new nature bestowed unto us from Him.
Howdy SoverignGrace, the answer is all in your screen name, "SoverignGrace", now how does our "free will" in Christ play out in our everyday living and walking in the Spirit. "Study Compatiblism", "our new nature", in Him. Thanks this helps a lot and more to learn...
Life Through the Spirit
Romans8:1-4
1) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3) For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
4) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are
John8:31-38
31) To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
32) Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33) They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34) Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
35) Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
36) So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
37) I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word.
38) I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”
Life Through the Spirit
Romans8:1-4
1) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3) For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
4) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are
John8:31-38
31) To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
32) Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33) They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34) Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
35) Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
36) So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
37) I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word.
38) I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”
Howdy SoverignGrace, the answer is all in your screen name, "SoverignGrace", now how does our "free will" in Christ play out in our everyday living and walking in the Spirit. "Study Compatiblism", "our new nature", in Him. Thanks this helps a lot and more to learn...
Life Through the Spirit
Romans8:1-4
1) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3) For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
4) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are
John8:31-38
31) To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
32) Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33) They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34) Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
35) Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
36) So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
37) I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word.
38) I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”
Life Through the Spirit
Romans8:1-4
1) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3) For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
4) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are
John8:31-38
31) To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
32) Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33) They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34) Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
35) Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
36) So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
37) I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word.
38) I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”
That makes as much sense as a football bat.
No, Sissy, I do not have it all figured out. There are many things in the bible I am not sure about. However, this mythical free will is not found anywhere in the bible. Just because it says words like 'choose', it does not mean to choose anything and everything.
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."[John 6:44]
As Jesus plainly stated, "No one can come to Me UNLESS...."There's the kicker. If ppl's wills were free pre-salvation, they could have came to Him any time they chose to. But they didn't. Why? They hated Him. They wanted anything and everything BUT God. Their wicked, God-hating hearts precluded them from coming to Him.
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."[John 6:44]
As Jesus plainly stated, "No one can come to Me UNLESS...."There's the kicker. If ppl's wills were free pre-salvation, they could have came to Him any time they chose to. But they didn't. Why? They hated Him. They wanted anything and everything BUT God. Their wicked, God-hating hearts precluded them from coming to Him.
The Bible says that all human beings are sinners by birth and have a sin nature. But that does not automatically mean that they ALWAYS choose wrong. That is a misrepresentation that has been promoted by some. Why don't we let the Bible tell us whether they ALWAYS choose wrong?
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another...(Rom 2:12-15).
To fail to bring this to people's attention and deliberately suppress this truth is in fact to deceive others.
A careful study of the kings of Judah will show anyone who wants the truth that evil fathers produced righteous sons, and righteous fathers produced evil sons. These kings were either following the Word of God and their conscience, or failing to do so and choosing evil deliberately.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another...(Rom 2:12-15).
To fail to bring this to people's attention and deliberately suppress this truth is in fact to deceive others.
A careful study of the kings of Judah will show anyone who wants the truth that evil fathers produced righteous sons, and righteous fathers produced evil sons. These kings were either following the Word of God and their conscience, or failing to do so and choosing evil deliberately.
As I said before a few posts ago;
the 5 points of Calvinism sort of explains the sovereignty of God problem for some people and puts things in a package for those who need a nice neat package. I used to be a 5 point Calvinist (as they say) and it all seemed to make perfect sense for a time.
But I'm no longer of that Calvinistic mindset because I believe there is too much of the unknown about the free will of man and the sovereignty of God that cannot be explained. But I do understand why many prefer to look at salvation and God's sovereignty in this way. I don't believe those who hold to it think they are better than others. It's just a way of trying to understand God's sovereignty. Personally I find it is AOK to allow God to be mysterious to the human mind as long as I'm confident He loves me. His love for mankind is a super mystery and takes faith to believe.
So everything else need not be totally understood anymore. When you know the love of God IN Christ you can rest in the fact that God is beyond finding out but there are things He allows us and wants us to know. His love is one major truth He wants us all to know. And the other things He gives us faith to believe such as how He can save rotten sinners and make them 100% righteous saints.
I don't count free will as "mystical" It's just that unknown little factor that has to be taken into consideration each day of our lives. God has a good plan for our lives but unless we get "in step" with Him., we will not see that good plan. We begin our relationship with God by grace through faith and that is exactly how it continues even now as we have been saved already.
I'm well versed in the what you are talking about because I was raised in it. It does seal things up in a neat package but there are other verses that must be taken into consideration. People who go to hell don't go because God sent them. They go because they refused to believe in the Son of God who loved them and died for them.
I probably know more about the 5 points of Calvanism than you do so long was I engulfed in it's legalism. Jesus did draw us and we were dead in trespasses and sins. There are people that are close to salvation but fail to go the rest of the way. We are responsible for not accepting Jesus., not God. God offers a way out and many will refuse. But God is not sending anyone to hell. God is not willing that any should perish but that alllll would come to repentance.
I'm not looking for everything in the Bible to make perfect sense to my human frailties. I do however know the love of God in Christ and am confident that He is able to be alll good and alll gracious and allll loving more than I or you could ever imagine. However God works it., it is alll better than you or I can imagine.
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There are mysteries about salvation that we will not know right now. That is ok. We are the clay He is the Potter. He can do with us what He wants and yet He chooses to love us and care for us. That says a lot to me as a daughter. The love and grace of God is the most amazing thing we can learn about. And the answers to the mysteries of salvation will be less of a problem as we grow in confidence in the love that God has for us.