Your salvation could be at risk

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miker

Junior Member
Oct 13, 2017
12
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#1
I was an atheist until I got married and then I began going to a Pentecostal church. After a few years of studying the Bible, I ask the pastor for a private meeting. I opened a paper and quoted the verses that I had written down and said I don't believe tithing is for today's church. He said "Mike you're right but if I don't ask for tithes people won't give enough money". The following Sunday the entire sermon was on tithing and I was so mad that he was lying I never went back. I tried two more churches but they were just as bad. So, for the last 20 years I have not believed in giving a tithe.
Here are a few things you must know to understand the facts.
1. The New Testament doesn't begin in the Gospels until Jesus's death and resurrection.
2. We are not under the law - Romans 10 : 4.
3. Tithing is one of 613 laws in the Old Testament and they weren’t righteous if they skipped just one of them, and then they had to offer a blood sacrifice.
4.Tithing and giving are two different things. If you give 10% because the pastor is teaching on
tithing out of the old testament-that IS tithing. If you give freely as your heart desires- that is New Testament giving and they are 2 completely different things.
5. The Temple (where Jews payed their tithes) was destroyed in 70 A.D.so they can’t tithe according to the original law.
6. Romans 6v.14
Sin will have no power over you, because you aren't under Law but under grace.
I recently accidentally found a video by Sharon Johnson on tithing on YouTube. Her website is www .motivatingu2win.com The one I watched was "tithing part 1." Although I knew that tithing wasn't scriptural, I didn't know that it COULD be a matter of salvation until I watched her video.
Common English Bible
In it was some of the following verses:
Galations Ch 2 v. 16 However, we know that a person isn't made righteous by the works of the Law but rather through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. We ourselves believed in Christ Jesus so that we could be made righteous by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the Law—because no one will be made righteous by the works of the Law.
 
 
Galatians Ch.2 v. 21. I don't ignore the grace of God, because if we become righteous through the Law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians Ch3,v.1-5 you irrational Galatians! Who put a spell on you? Jesus Christ was put on display as crucified before your eyes!
2
I just want to know this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the Law or by believing what you heard?
3
Are you so irrational? After you started with the Spirit, are you now finishing up with your own human effort?
4
Did you experience so much for nothing? I wonder if it really was for nothing.
5
So does the one providing you with the Spirit and working miracles among you do this by you doing the works of the Law or by you believing what you heard?
Galations ch.3 v.10 All those who rely on the works of the Law are under a curse, because it is written, Everyone is cursed who does not keep on doing all the things that have been written in the Law scroll.javascript:void(0);
Galations Ch.5 v.4 You people who are trying to be made righteous by the Law have been estranged from Christ. You have fallen away from grace!
 
 
 
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#2
If salvation depended on people tithing then most would indeed be lost. In fact all the stingy people would be out in the cold.

NT Christians do not give because they must they give because they love the Lord. NT Christians do not tithe to the church they give as unto the Lord Who purchased them from the slave market of sin.

Do you love your money more than you love the Lord? Do you trust the security of your money more than the provision of the Lord?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jan 21, 2017
647
28
0
#3
How am I supposed to be nice in the face of such dumb ideas?

Yall dont even understand how a testament works, how is that possible? Where do yall get this stuff from? Which pundit told you this, i dont even need to look at the website, I see the name and im already sure its gonna be flaming trash on a stick.
Jesus was alive, spoke His testament to the disciples, died, resurrected and the testament which He spoke came into effect.
He didn't live in the flesh, speak to His disciples, then die and resurrect and flip the script and make all He taught to the disciples of no effect and reveal a completely different testament afterwards.

Why does this gotta be explained? Common sense aint that common it seems.
 

miker

Junior Member
Oct 13, 2017
12
0
0
#4
If salvation depended on people tithing then most would indeed be lost. In fact all the stingy people would be out in the cold.

NT Christians do not give because they must they give because they love the Lord. NT Christians do not tithe to the church they give as unto the Lord Who purchased them from the slave market of sin.

Do you love your money more than you love the Lord? Do you trust the security of your money more than the provision of the Lord?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
your reply is confusing but I'm sure you COMPLETELY misunderstood what I was saying.
Miker
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
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#6
miker,

we beg to differ with you...

notuptome is NOT confused at all concerning his post, he sees very clear and concise
in his ministering...by the way, He is right, down to the letters, God
puts on our hearts where and how to 'tithe' for His Name's sake...

hub and I pray that you are open to learning while you are here,
there are many wonderful 'teachers' on this site...
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
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#7
'cheerful giver'
'according as God has prospered'
'freely you have received'
'the ox is worthy of his hire'
la-dee-da-dee-da. :)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#8
1. The New Testament doesn't begin in the Gospels until Jesus's death and resurrection.
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”



John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."


John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
So is my salvation at risk or not? I do not understand what the Op is trying to say.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#11
There is a difference of opinion on this point. Most Christian denominations believe once saved always saved. Some believe if you later sin and don't ask for forgiveness then your salvation is at risk. Those people fear dying after committing a sin and before asking forgiveness.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
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#13
There is a difference of opinion on this point. Most Christian denominations believe once saved always saved. Some believe if you later sin and don't ask for forgiveness then your salvation is at risk. Those people fear dying after committing a sin and before asking forgiveness.
And how sad is that?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#14
How am I supposed to be nice in the face of such dumb ideas?

Yall dont even understand how a testament works, how is that possible? Where do yall get this stuff from? Which pundit told you this, i dont even need to look at the website, I see the name and im already sure its gonna be flaming trash on a stick.
Jesus was alive, spoke His testament to the disciples, died, resurrected and the testament which He spoke came into effect.
He didn't live in the flesh, speak to His disciples, then die and resurrect and flip the script and make all He taught to the disciples of no effect and reveal a completely different testament afterwards.

Why does this gotta be explained? Common sense aint that common it seems.
Sorry Issachar not sure what you are trying to convey here.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#15
How am I supposed to be nice in the face of such dumb ideas?

Yall dont even understand how a testament works, how is that possible? Where do yall get this stuff from? Which pundit told you this, i dont even need to look at the website, I see the name and im already sure its gonna be flaming trash on a stick.
Jesus was alive, spoke His testament to the disciples, died, resurrected and the testament which He spoke came into effect.
He didn't live in the flesh, speak to His disciples, then die and resurrect and flip the script and make all He taught to the disciples of no effect and reveal a completely different testament afterwards.

Why does this gotta be explained? Common sense aint that common it seems.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
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#16
Welcome, Miker...
I agree with you that tithing is not a requirement for Christians. I would even agree that it is comparable to being circumcised in the mistaken notion that such is required for salvation. Many Christian pastors teach tithing for all the wrong reasons, and usually on the basis of poor hermeneutics, greed and fear. I've done plenty of reading on the subject, and have never found an argument in favour of tithing that didn't violate at least one principle of biblical interpretation. Further, "tithe" means "tenth"; either ordinal (eighth, ninth, tenth) or fractional (one of ten equal parts). Five percent, 11%, and 17% aren't "tithes".

Tithing has absolutely nothing to do with giving, supporting your local fellowship, being generous, living for the Lord, etc. It is directly comparable to income tax, and was used for similar purposes. The overall percentages are similar - between 20 and 30% overall, depending on your interpretation of the relevant OT passages.

Conflating "tithing" with "giving" usually results in arrogance, judgment, and the kind of negative comments certain others have made. Tithing and giving aren't the same thing, and never were. The NT has plenty to say about giving generously and even sacrificially, but tithing isn't part of it.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,679
1,620
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#17
The OP posits that whoever tithes is in danger of losing their salvation, yes?

albert-einstein-if-you-cant-explain-it-simply-you-dont-understand-it-well-enough.png
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#18
It seems the issue here is tithing, for the OP.

I think the problem here for me is that today tithing is basically 10% of finances. Some say gross some say net.

So basically today its money and that is what is taught.

I am not aware in the OT that money was part of tithing.

Under the Mosaic law there seems to be 3 tithes.

A regular tithe to support the priests and the work of the temple.
A festival tithe for the celebration of required feasts.
A charity tithe to the poor.

I think I read somewhere given the above the actual tithe amounted to about 23% and not 10%

In the OT it seems that God gave a mandate to give and also to receive, But in the NT I would also say that God has given the same mandate but with a difference.


2 Corinthians 9:7-8
7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

We Give according to what God has laid on our heart to give.
We should ask him what do you want me to give, and to whom?

We need to be very very careful.

I did the accounts for a Christian friend, basically his business income was making a loss.
I asked to look at his personal finances. He and his wife were tithing to the church.
In the meantime he couldn’t pay his workers.

When I said tithing is wrong as you are not paying your workers who need to earn money to provide for their family he got angry with me.

A few months later I had to walk him through bankruptcy I had to list the people he owed money to.
The list was long and it was mostly workers that worked for him, and most were not Christians.

Not a great witness is it?

To be honest for me I do tithe to the church, I do so because I know that leaders of my church need to paid to live.
In fact I know my church leaders earn pittance if they worked in their secular job.
My wife is one them.

To me that is my basic tithe.
Me and my wife then ask God if he wants us to then give more.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#19
My salvation is secure....

a. Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith he began in me
b. I am saved to the uttermost
c. I am kept by the power of God
d. I am in the Father's hand
e. I am in Christ's hand
f. I am sealed by the Spirit of Promise
g. I have eternal life NOT TEMPORARY
h. Jesus promises to never leave me nor forsake me
i. Jesus promises to raise me up the last day and will.lose nothing
j. I am justified by faith (rendered innoncent)
k. I am sanctified positionally in Christ
m. I am sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption
n. What God does is EVERLASTING INCLUDING SAVING SOMEONE

etc.......
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#20
It appears to me all the op is saying is that some take tithing to such an extreme that one's salvation is dependent on it. Then offers some passages as refutation. Not sure why some have attempted to make him appear "dumb" for his op. :)