Guilt

Quite often on this site I see the argument "I don't feel guilty when I do it, so it is not a sin."

Here's the thing, you don't have to feel guilt, remorse, or any such emotion in order for a sin to be a sin. No verses in the Bible point to the belief that one must feel remorse or guilt in order for something to be sinful. There are verses in the Bible that point to the opposite, though. Many people in the Bible sinned and felt no shame when doing so, yet what they did was still a sin.

Mainly I'm pointing this out for logic's sake. It hurts my brain when I encounter the "I don't feel guilty, so it isn't a sin" argument, so I want to try and help y'all realize the err of your logic. I also point it out so that you cannot try and use this faulty argument in order to try and continue on in your sin, or to try and defend someone else's sin.

[jangel]

I definitely agree with this, I have a guy friend who is engaged in premarital sex told me how could you called it a sin when both of you agree from doing it, but the fact is its not what you feel that counts its the act itself that you're doing is sin, well maybe they consider that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit that's the time they felt guilt and afraid so they hide from God.Fear+ guilt= Sin but since they proudly do it its not a sin such people are really ignorant of what God's will is.

What do you do when you feel guilty about everything? I spend every waking moment worrying I am going to sin or actually sinning. I was raised on the "You will go to hell if you dont.... model. And guilt is a powerful motivator for parents to use. I use to think I would go to hell if I didnt go to the bathroom the right way

I feel guilty if I feel sick or tired, because there are so many who are more sick then I, and Christ who was perfect, gave his all. I am but a lowly servent. I feel guilty if I dont do the housework right away, because there are people who have no home. Christ was born in a manger. How can I be so lazy and not take care of the home God has given me.

I could continue but I think you get the idea. What do I do about this?

Debbie

Originally Posted by sunshine_debbie

What do you do when you feel guilty about everything? I spend every waking moment worrying I am going to sin or actually sinning. I was raised on the "You will go to hell if you dont.... model. And guilt is a powerful motivator for parents to use. I use to think I would go to hell if I didnt go to the bathroom the right way

I feel guilty if I feel sick or tired, because there are so many who are more sick then I, and Christ who was perfect, gave his all. I am but a lowly servent. I feel guilty if I dont do the housework right away, because there are people who have no home. Christ was born in a manger. How can I be so lazy and not take care of the home God has given me.

I could continue but I think you get the idea. What do I do about this?

Debbie

The kind of guilt that you are experiencing has nothing to do with sin, but condemnation. It sounds as if it was piled on pretty thick when you were growing up. You are a child of God. I wish I had the right words to make it go away. I know my own struggles of overcoming what dysfunctional parents put in our heads. Put a big note on your ceiling that says "His grace is sufficient" Put the same note on your mirror, the refrigerator, above the toilet paper, on the steering wheel above your television, above your computer. Look up every verse with the word grace in it and memorize them. surround yourself with friends who have that wonderful gift of walking in God's grace. Make up games for the family where they get grace points for treating one another with forgiveness and love. Draw pictures (however you imagine him) of the accuser and tape them to the floor so you can walk on him. I pray for so much grace in your life that all that condemnation will be washed away.
In His service
David King

[pickles]

Originally Posted by lil-rush

Quite often on this site I see the argument "I don't feel guilty when I do it, so it is not a sin."

Here's the thing, you don't have to feel guilt, remorse, or any such emotion in order for a sin to be a sin. No verses in the Bible point to the belief that one must feel remorse or guilt in order for something to be sinful. There are verses in the Bible that point to the opposite, though. Many people in the Bible sinned and felt no shame when doing so, yet what they did was still a sin.

Mainly I'm pointing this out for logic's sake. It hurts my brain when I encounter the "I don't feel guilty, so it isn't a sin" argument, so I want to try and help y'all realize the err of your logic. I also point it out so that you cannot try and use this faulty argument in order to try and continue on in your sin, or to try and defend someone else's sin.

We are do not live under condemnation but under grace. I was reading corr. again last night.
Paul was speaking to those that live under the law, and how the gentiles have what God's requirements
put on their heart.
If someone feels no guilt it is ussually because Jesus is not presant enough in thier life.
It might be better to help that person come closer to Jesus through the word and in the heart.
As they come to be more in Jesus , he will place on their heart his requirements.
As I often tell people, work on the illness and the symptoms will go away.
God bless, pickles

[pickles]

Originally Posted by sunshine_debbie

What do you do when you feel guilty about everything? I spend every waking moment worrying I am going to sin or actually sinning. I was raised on the "You will go to hell if you dont.... model. And guilt is a powerful motivator for parents to use. I use to think I would go to hell if I didnt go to the bathroom the right way

I feel guilty if I feel sick or tired, because there are so many who are more sick then I, and Christ who was perfect, gave his all. I am but a lowly servent. I feel guilty if I dont do the housework right away, because there are people who have no home. Christ was born in a manger. How can I be so lazy and not take care of the home God has given me.

I could continue but I think you get the idea. What do I do about this?

Debbie

This is a hard way to live. I battled this myself and exsausted myself trying to make sure I always proved I was good. The guilt will consume you, it did me.
I know you heard this, Jesus did not come to condemn the world but to save it. You have to accept this is Jesus, he does not want you to live this way.
Some one told me that by livving this way,it was like telling Jesus his dieing on the cross was not enough.
That floored me and made me realise how my thinking had to change, but the voice was still there telling me how i was failing, condemning me.
I then realised that I needed to rebuke this thinking in Jesus Christ is savior and Lord every time I began to feel this way comanding this spirit to leave and never return In Jesus.
It took some time, mostly because I was hard to convice, but I am less and less under this guilt, condemnation.
Remember, satan is the accuser, Jesus is Our Lord and savior!
Jesus wants you to see all in him, He wants you to be in His salvation and Joy!
Sunshine Debbie, Jesus wants you to know that what you lived with is already crushed,
that you are perfect in Him and white as snow.
God bless, pickles

[VW]

Blessed is the person who is not condemned in what they allow. For the person who is condemned there is nothing clean.
This is a paraphrase of what Paul wrote. What is so often missed is that the law brings condemnation.
But how can we know what is right and good without the law?
By the same power that gives us life, the Holy Spirit. He convicts us when we do or say or even think wrong, that is, against God and His love. The covenant we have with God through Jesus is that He will write His laws in our hearts and upon our minds.
But conviction does not work like condemnation. Condemnation places a barrier between us and God. Jesus died to remove this barrier.
Conviction, on the other hand, works to bring us closer to God. It does this by showing our need to go to Him in order to be cleansed and to be changed into His image.

What is many times called guilt is realy condemnation. When The woman taken in adultry was brought before Jesus, did He condemn her? He did not condone her actions, but neither did He condemn. But those who brought her were condemning, and they wanted her to know guilt and punishment, even death. Jesus wanted her to know forgiveness and love and peace with God.

There are times when one is so deep in sin that conviction from the Spirit is not heard, (in truth, we all need to work on hearing His voice,) and condemnation must in some way be brought to bear, lest that one perish. But to bring condemnation on another is a truly terrible thing, and should be done only in fear for ourselves, lest we too be tempted.

David lived in adultry with Bathsheba for near a year or more, before confronted by the prophet. The child of their union died. But David did not grow away from the Lord, but closer. We too should draw closer, even without conviction of sin.

Originally Posted by VW

There are times when one is so deep in sin that conviction from the Spirit is not heard, (in truth, we all need to work on hearing His voice,) and condemnation must in some way be brought to bear, lest that one perish. But to bring condemnation on another is a truly terrible thing, and should be done only in fear for ourselves, lest we too be tempted.

David lived in adultry with Bathsheba for near a year or more, before confronted by the prophet. The child of their union died. But David did not grow away from the Lord, but closer. We too should draw closer, even without conviction of sin.

While I agree with all that you had to say, I just wanted to highlight this one part, because it goes along with what I was trying to say. I definitely agree that conviction comes from the Holy Spirit, and condemnation does not. I just couldn't think of the word "conviction" last night when writing this thread.

Like you are saying though, one does not always feel convicted when committing a sin, and that is because one is either too deep into the sin to want to hear Holy Spirit telling you what you are doing is wrong, or one doesn't feel convicted because one was never taught that the sin one is committing is a sin. Either way, it is still a sin.

For example, if I was engaging in fornication with my boyfriend and did not feel and sort of guilt or conviction about it, it would still be a sin. Just as you pointed out with David and his adultery with Bathsheba.

And so, when someone tells a person in love that what he is doing is a sin, instead of saying "Well it doesn't feel wrong, so it's not a sin" he should instead go to God's word with prayer and a humble mind willing to be corrected to see if what he is doing really is a sin or not. Granted if his heart is closed off to the truth because of a stubborn spirit, he still won't find the truth of the matter when reading the Bible and praying to God. That is why it is important to have a humble spirit willing to be corrected.

An argument I've heard a lot is "I feel no conviction about it [whatever it is that someone is doing]. Therefore, it's not a sin." Against this, the gates of logic shall not prevail.

For Sunshine Debbie: The only way we know things are sin is because of the word. That is why it is most important to be in the word and allow God to work on us.
This is something i typed up for a study a while back. I feel for you because it sounds like other people in your life/childhood have played on your conscience perhaps making it sensitive.Im sorry its soo big i just pasted it.

THE CONSCIENCE

There are a number of ways our conscience works and a number of ways it can be damaged. Here we take a look at the different aspects of the conscience.

A Good Conscience

Self explanatory really....We know in ourselves that we can behave in good conscience. But our conscience is not a fully reliable source of behaving righteously therefore we need the Word...the Holy Spirit...wise Christian counsel...then the conscience. With God’s Word and His Spirit we can achieve good conscience in all that we do!

An Evil Conscience

The evil conscience is an uncleaned conscience (not a conscience that prompts us to do evil things). As a result of unconfessed sin a person with an evil conscience is more susceptible to sin and less sensitive to what is good.

A Seared Conscience

When you live a certain way, for example, lying, deceit, sexual immorality and you do it soo often your conscience no longer bothers you. It gets burned by the toleration of sin that gets insensitive. If you do something wrong often enough you cease to see the wrong in it. That is what a seared conscience is.




A Weak Conscience

Your conscience can be weak in two ways. Immature or over sensitive! 1 Corinthians 8 : 9 – 12 talks about if you have ‘knowledge’ of a sin and do it anyway in front of a Christian with a weak conscience that ends up with them following suit you have sinned against Christ.

Meaning that the believer with a weak conscience may be led to sin by imitating or misinterpreting the actions of another believer. A new believer needs to develop his conscience and strengthen it by the reading of the Word.

Many Christians with a sensitive conscience can end up limping through life because of a morbid and weak conscience whose condemning voice allows them no respite. Their very sincerity and desire to do the will of God only accentuated the problem and caused them to live in state of perpetual self accusation.

Understand that if this is you or someone you know you need to remember that our standing with God is based on His Grace and not our work! Romans 5 : 1, Ephesians 2 : 8 – 9

Ask God to develop your conscience! He wants you to live to the fullest of your potential, not with crutch in hand worrying about whether you are good or bad. In Gods eyes you are made perfect, covered by the blood.

When you feel your conscience is being overplayed talk to a mature believer. Sometimes talking aloud about a situation can confirm and clarify your thinking.

“This is when we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in His presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and He knows everything” 1 John 3 : 19, 20
A Defiled Conscience

This happens to our conscience when we continually ignore the Word and our conscience. We end up either a defiled conscience.

“To the pure, all things are pure but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure but both in mind and their conscience are defiled” Titus 1 : 15

A Defiled Conscience continued

In that state the conscience loses its ability to discern right from wrong. With the word defiling meaning - mixing pure with impure.

CONCLUSION

The conscience for all the above reasons isinadequate * unreliable * conditioned by background and teaching * incapable of giving direction.

To guard ourselves from our own consciences it should be the last on the list of things we check to make good choices.

· The Word
· The Holy Spirit
· Wise Christian Counsel
· Conscience

And then act on faith only.

“Whatever is not from faith is sin” Romans 14 : 23

That is a pretty amazing study you did there, Redeemed79. I especially like your conclusion. I might have to print out your study and tape it to my wall as a reminder to myself on how to make good, Godly decisions.

Algood, I like to study and cant take all the credit but I got interested when I heard alot mentioned by people about their consciences and then the bible had a bit to say on the subject. If it helps anyone then Im blessed by that. It is what we are here to do for each other....to edify and build each other up :-)

[VW]

Originally Posted by lil-rush

While I agree with all that you had to say, I just wanted to highlight this one part, because it goes along with what I was trying to say. I definitely agree that conviction comes from the Holy Spirit, and condemnation does not. I just couldn't think of the word "conviction" last night when writing this thread.

Like you are saying though, one does not always feel convicted when committing a sin, and that is because one is either too deep into the sin to want to hear Holy Spirit telling you what you are doing is wrong, or one doesn't feel convicted because one was never taught that the sin one is committing is a sin. Either way, it is still a sin.

For example, if I was engaging in fornication with my boyfriend and did not feel and sort of guilt or conviction about it, it would still be a sin. Just as you pointed out with David and his adultery with Bathsheba.

And so, when someone tells a person in love that what he is doing is a sin, instead of saying "Well it doesn't feel wrong, so it's not a sin" he should instead go to God's word with prayer and a humble mind willing to be corrected to see if what he is doing really is a sin or not. Granted if his heart is closed off to the truth because of a stubborn spirit, he still won't find the truth of the matter when reading the Bible and praying to God. That is why it is important to have a humble spirit willing to be corrected.

Now that brings up an even more important point. When we know someone is in sin, and cannot hear the conviction of the Holy Spirit, we must, must make sure that if we say something to them, it is in the Holy Spirit's power, or else they will not receive conviction from us, (really from the Holy Spirit through us,) and will feel condemnation. When the prophet came to David, David knew conviction. When the young man in Corinth was removed from the church, he knew condemnation and sorrow. And Paul told the church to take him back unless he suffer damaging sorrow, or as he called it excessive sorrow, so that this one might be overcome.

When one is overcome in a sin, they are not likely to listen to another, unless it is first said by the Holy Spirit. I find that this is one of the most important uses of the gift of prophecy. It is one reason why Paul said for us all to desire to prophecy, for as I see it, all prophecy is is speaking what the Holy Spirit says.

Prayer is the key, and intercession in Jesus for one so deceived, so lost in sin.

[Consumed]

Joh 16:8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


we as Christian believers aren't convicted by sin but by His righteousness we walk in, the unbeliever is convicted by sin which one has the choice to deny or embrace Jesus. Of judgement for the devil is condemned and the works of the devil are destroyed.......

there is no condemnation in Christ as He paid for our penalty in full. The more we declare we walk in His righteousness and get the revelation we are forgiven even when we stumble the devil has lost his deceptive practice to make one feel they are unworthy of Jesus. In doing so the bondage one is in is broken and the Spirit does its best work in someone. We stand on solid rock, the rock of Jesus, the power of having our conscious sprinkled with His blood to have that revelation that we are forgiven. we just need to believe and walk in it.....

Originally Posted by lil-rush

While I agree with all that you had to say, I just wanted to highlight this one part, because it goes along with what I was trying to say. I definitely agree that conviction comes from the Holy Spirit, and condemnation does not. I just couldn't think of the word "conviction" last night when writing this thread.

Like you are saying though, one does not always feel convicted when committing a sin, and that is because one is either too deep into the sin to want to hear Holy Spirit telling you what you are doing is wrong, or one doesn't feel convicted because one was never taught that the sin one is committing is a sin. Either way, it is still a sin.

For example, if I was engaging in fornication with my boyfriend and did not feel and sort of guilt or conviction about it, it would still be a sin. Just as you pointed out with David and his adultery with Bathsheba.

And so, when someone tells a person in love that what he is doing is a sin, instead of saying "Well it doesn't feel wrong, so it's not a sin" he should instead go to God's word with prayer and a humble mind willing to be corrected to see if what he is doing really is a sin or not. Granted if his heart is closed off to the truth because of a stubborn spirit, he still won't find the truth of the matter when reading the Bible and praying to God. That is why it is important to have a humble spirit willing to be corrected.

I agree. Too short, so I say again, I agree.