What works have you done that proves you have the true faith of God?

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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if you read the other op I linked to, it seems he suggests everyone is healed according to their faith

which is of course, word of faith...which is not biblical

I don't want to judge the motivation here, but this is not a good idea and neither is the other thread
He doesn’t suggest it he endorses it. Not only that his theology is so far off the mark it’s heritical and pushes nothing but condemnation.

He places the onus on the individual and not on the will of God.
Like our will overrides the will of God.
Yeh good luck with that, I say luck because that’s all you can hang your coat on and not genuine faith that says “Not my will but yours be done”

He says he will prove, truth is he can’t prove anything.

I have responded to his thread.

Thanks for for bringing it to attention
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
He doesn’t suggest it he endorses it. Not only that his theology is so far off the mark it’s heritical and pushes nothing but condemnation.

He places the onus on the individual and not on the will of God.
Like our will overrides the will of God.
Yeh good luck with that, I say luck because that’s all you can hang your coat on and not genuine faith that says “Not my will but yours be done”

He says he will prove, truth is he can’t prove anything.

I have responded to his thread.

Thanks for for bringing it to attention

that was me trying to be polite...I believe he is sincere and that is not the same as someone trying to flog a false doctrine

I understand what you say Bill...and what you say is true

I see suffering ahead for people who fall for this and it makes me sad for them

I have no problem with what you said...we just respond a little different

thanks
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
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that was me trying to be polite...I believe he is sincere and that is not the same as someone trying to flog a false doctrine

I understand what you say Bill...and what you say is true

I see suffering ahead for people who fall for this and it makes me sad for them

I have no problem with what you said...we just respond a little different

thanks
Yeh I get what you are saying.

I think if you were to read most of my posts on this forum I don’t look for confrontation and arguments. I like to engage and discuss.

What really upsets me is theology that comes across as heaping condemnation on others.
That doesn’t build up but that raises barriers with God as a result of the theology.

It really does break my heart. As you said you see suffering ahead for those who fall for this and so do I and that is what really gets to me.

I try to objective to the poster and those that could suffer.
Maybe at times I’m not.

If not let me know.
 

DayVerlo

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2017
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You asked for a specific number. Which, of course, would be impossible to quantify.

There is no amount of works you can do that would prove to yourself that you have true faith.

But there is a work that God Does that proves that you are Saved and have True Faith.


If God doesn't show you that you are saved then everything that you do is pretty much pointless. You would be working to try and earn. That is not the way God Works.

In order to know you are saved you have to know that you can't earn Salvation by your work. And then give up and ask Christ for His Help. And believe that He Is and is a Rewarder to those who call on Him.


It probably sounds like I'm talking in circles now....lol
Sorry to intrude but as you all are taking the entire Matthew, Mark Luke and John apart for your point, you really are missing the point.

There is a parable that explains heaven. Heaven is Like a man finding a treasure in a field, covers it over, goes home and sells everything to buy this field.

Taking a chance and getting what you know the reward of. Goodness me. It's Logic. Seeing am opportunity and grabbing it has fed so many far better food than those that do not seize the moment.

Jesus teaches, if you have a talent and develop it, you'll have 2. If you have 2, you'll have 4.,etc exponential growth in abilities. So If you see you are able to the littlest thing you can grow that achievement to unknown heights.

But if you bury your head under the duvet in today's terms, you'll endlessly stay on state assistance and have basic foods.

So it is measurable. The more you try in Faith you'll achieve. Without faith you will not try. Doubt disables you from trying.

The bible If You Not Yet Aware is sold in bookshops under the shelf header: Personal Development.

Professional personal developers make a load of money from saying exactly this in front of halls filled with gullible people when this info is free in the Gospel.

Whenever you try and succeed thinking that Jesus stand by you or that God is your motivation and Is Righteous in the Law of your country, you can tick your box.

I'm not a builder but I have renovated houses. I'm not a trained plumber but I plumb. Electrician, solar energy, gas, building plastics, carpenter, roofer, computer programmer, robotics All because I'm not afraid to try.

Yes Fear and Fear alone stops people trying. Going with the flow, like everyone else. Jesus spoke out against the very temple he studied in.

He said we not pray repetitively, Yet everyone is still stuck repeating the same stuff. There are people climbing the most difficult mountains by their fingertips. Fingertips for goodness sake.

Some can't hold a cup anymore.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
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You asked for a specific number. Which, of course, would be impossible to quantify.

There is no amount of works you can do that would prove to yourself that you have true faith.
Sure there is a specific number on our part which I mentioned earlier... 0%.
I don't try to prove to myself anything, I just ASK myself, 'am I trusting in Jesus?'.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Sure there is a specific number on our part which I mentioned earlier... 0%.
I don't try to prove to myself anything, I just ASK myself, 'am I trusting in Jesus?'.
Thats all we can do is trust in Jesus.

And If we can’t we can come to Jesus and say “Jesus I believe but help me in my belief”

Mark 9:24


24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
Yeh I get what you are saying.

I think if you were to read most of my posts on this forum I don’t look for confrontation and arguments. I like to engage and discuss.

What really upsets me is theology that comes across as heaping condemnation on others.
That doesn’t build up but that raises barriers with God as a result of the theology.

It really does break my heart. As you said you see suffering ahead for those who fall for this and so do I and that is what really gets to me.

I try to objective to the poster and those that could suffer.
Maybe at times I’m not.

If not let me know.
yup..I know your 'style' and it is as you say :)

I have, without doubt, been far less sensitive in a good number of posts than you are ever

that lack of sensitivity is usually due to my own dislike of either treating others with mockery or no desire for actual discussion, but just the apparent 'need' to put others down

I guess we all write from where we live as far as experience and knowledge and even wisdom go and we do not all have those things in the amounts some of us assume to have...:p

I have no problem with what you wrote. we just expressed the same concern differently for different reasons

and this is not a politically correct post even though it may read somewhat like one LOL!
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Some people profess to have faith, but have not good works to back that said faith up, and some do.
What good works have you done that shows you have this God kind of faith?
What good work(s) have you done that proves you are a child of God?
The bible says that signs will follow them that believe, and that there will be tares AMONG the wheat, IN the church, so what specific signs followed you that says, you are the wheat and not the tare?
the best works....

the TRUELY good works

are of God

so i think a better question

is

are you a new creature?

has God started working in you?

what path are you on?

self examination, trying to see the fruits of the spirit and praying for what you lack

a hate for sin which you once loved?

a brokenness if you fail?

complete faith in Jesus.... where your understanding is subject to change when revealed new truths in scripture?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Some people profess to have faith, but have not good works to back that said faith up, and some do.
What good works have you done that shows you have this God kind of faith?
What good work(s) have you done that proves you are a child of God?
The bible says that signs will follow them that believe, and that there will be tares AMONG the wheat, IN the church, so what specific signs followed you that says, you are the wheat and not the tare?
I purposely try not to do works because I'm saved by faith not works. Don't need them. God made me to be a believer and nothing can change that.
 
B

Brian_Graham

Guest
Ephesians 2
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yet this thread asks: "What works have you done that prove you have the true faith of God?"

Salvation is by faith alone, but works are a demonstration, an extension, of how firmly we hold that faith as we aim to fulfill Mark 12:30-31.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Some people profess to have faith, but have not good works to back that said faith up, and some do.
What good works have you done that shows you have this God kind of faith?
What good work(s) have you done that proves you are a child of God?
The bible says that signs will follow them that believe, and that there will be tares AMONG the wheat, IN the church, so what specific signs followed you that says, you are the wheat and not the tare?
Acts of service and love towards others because Christ is working in your heart.

It is when you know Christ has transformed you so much, you know how you feel and
what you want to do for others.

I would not use the term proof, but rather the fruit of the work God has done within.
Jesus says His word if it abides in us, will bear fruit. This was not a, it might, but
a law and a prophecy.

If you plant a seed in the ground, water it, and it gets warmth, light, and a place
to grow it will grow.

So many are barren because they shut God out of their emotions and things and
people they really care about, because they are scared they will be hurt more than
they already are. But it is here where the King of Kings needs to come and dwell.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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I purposely try not to do works because I'm saved by faith not works. Don't need them. Godparents made me to be a believer and nothing can change that.
be aware brother, one time non Christian talk to me: " Christian is a religion that encourage wickedness. "

I ask why? He answered, because teach salvation not by work, that mean it is ok to rob the bank, and if caught, say to police, Jesus die for my sin, so you do not have the right to punish me, Jesus punished for me
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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Nice rambling pamphlet that said nothing....nor did it accurately address anything....lets us try one more time and this time be honest and straight forward....

Works of gold, silver and precious stone <----FAITHFUL SAVED that SERVE

Works of wood, hay and stubble <---___________ saved that have their works burnt to a crisp

See...this one set of verses forever destroys this working for salvation dogma pushed by all who say and use JAMES out of context to push a faith plus works for salvation.....and none of those who push such a dogma can or will be HONEST with this set of verses that states clearly that some SAVED believers will NOT produce faithful, godly works that survive the fiery test of GOD...yet they themselves will STILL BE SAVED as if they came through the fire.....

THE BIBLE IS CLEAR....ALL who have exercised faith into CHRIST biblically HAVE done the works of their HEAVENLY FATHER and this ALONE is sufficient for the eternal SALVATION found in CHRIST.....
I'm sorry you didn't understand what I wrote. I will try again.
So you want specific works that God sees as wood, hay, and stubble, like I've been asking you to provide that proves you have the true faith and have yet to do so?
Okay.
My Grandmother was the most faithful person that loved Jesus I have ever seen....always doing for the poor, feeding them, making them clothes, taught Sunday school her whole life, worked on the "mission board", prayed, studied, never missed church, sang, and untold good deeds for JESUS and she died of cancer, peacefully smiling and surrounded by UNSEEN friends and family and even seeing a little girl smiling as she passed "lost a 1 year old daughter" and she as well as everyone prayed for her to live. She believed that JESUS and faith alone saved her. SHE was poor as dirt and gave all in the process to help others.

I don't doubt your grandmother was a godly person, even born again, but much of those things you listed are simply good works, and not works of faith. They would be the kind of works Paul talked about saying, "...Not by works [of the law]..." Those are most likely works FOR the faith, of a denominational church, but certainly not works of faith.
This is perhaps true religion, but not true faith. The other acts of kindness were done in love, I'm sure, but still not works of faith or good works that prove you have the true faith.
I believe you were trying to show me what a true believe's faith looks like and what a phony faith looks like.
And because of all her acts of kindness, and her close walk with God, if anyone DESERVED to be heal, and should have received healing, it would have been her, and God didn't heal her.
This is why no one could mention even one work of faith without bragging on themselves.
This is your interpretation of "good works", but it doesn't fit with the same works James was talking about.
Everything your grandmother did, any heathen or unbeliever off the street could have done the same things, and everyone would have said, what a godly person.
There is of course, nothing wrong with all those things which she did. They're just not the same kind of works James was talking about, because James would have been able to show his works without bragging on himself. James' works would have shown the power of God in action, like he described.
The works of gold, silver, and precious stones would be the kind mention in Hebrews 11, which would include healings and deliverances.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
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Sir, I don't need to dodge the question, as you suppose me to be doing, which is what you are doing right now.
First off, I don't teach works for salvation. I teach faith with a corresponding work of faith [singular] for salvation. There's a difference. Once a person is born again, there is no work one can do to make themselves any more a child of God than they already are. I do not propagate works to maintain salvation or to get to heaven.
And second, how can you say I'm condemning others while you are condemning me?
What I am trying to find out from the teaching of others, concerning the interpretation James 2, is what good works prove they have true faith and shows they are born again.
This is not my interpretation, but those who believe as you do. I just want to know what specific works they are.
It's written in the bible, so what good works is the bible talking about that others claim to have that proves this so called true faith?
I quote your opening Post where you demanded;;

What good work(s) have you done that proves you are a child of God?
You demanded people give a detailed account of their work(s) to prove their salvation By Works.. You are the classic works salvation fruit inspector.. demanding others show proof of their salvation by their works.. But now you deny you propogate works as a way to salvation?? After demanding people show their works to prove their salvation..

You cannot have it both ways.. I think post people reading on can understand this..
 

DayVerlo

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2017
28
1
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be aware brother, one time non Christian talk to me: " Christian is a religion that encourage wickedness. "

I ask why? He answered, because teach salvation not by work, that mean it is ok to rob the bank, and if caught, say to police, Jesus die for my sin, so you do not have the right to punish me, Jesus punished for me
There is one book cover to cover called the bible. There are rules. Though shall not steal. Though shall not Kill.
Honour your parents so you have a long life on this planet. Don't desire what other's have, work for your own.
It says God dwells in those that believe this book. So when a so called man refers to the bible, Jesus, God etc, in his defence he obviously forget to read the bit about The law. Break the Law and your freedom is taken from you.
To fight your corner, May cost you all your possessions. So you have no excuse. You loose your freedom. The freedom Jacob chose by living outside the city But he paid it's tax.

Jesus rightly died for our sin. That means you don't have to give up your Life for a mistake, only your lifestyle.
 
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Mar 28, 2016
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We are saved by the faith that comes from hearing God .The faith of God. This is according to Christ’s three day labor of love.

Not one that comes from the imagination of one’s own deceitful heart but one that comes from a born again new spirit and heart purified by the work of faith that does come from hearing God.

All saints died having not receiving the promise . We walking by a living faith ,the faith of Christ it works in us to provide a living hope . For who hopes for something they already have?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Some people profess to have faith, but have not good works to back that said faith up, and some do.
What good works have you done that shows you have this God kind of faith?
What good work(s) have you done that proves you are a child of God?
The bible says that signs will follow them that believe, and that there will be tares AMONG the wheat, IN the church, so what specific signs followed you that says, you are the wheat and not the tare?
Ya know? I keep rolling your question round n round in my mind, and that term "proof", or "prove", keeps coming up.

IN this, your original post (usually called OP), is there something "understood", that you are asking, yet not mentioning? Like "Prove to ME?" "Prove one's self!", To whom? The "Eyes of men?" Like some pharasetic braggart? Proof, by performing "Miracles?"

Methinks you need be a little more SPECIFIC, in what you are asking. In the apparent manner, you are asking, in these eyes, you look to be replacing, or feebly attempting to elevate yourself, as some form of an "oppressor", in trying to "squeeze" a response out of those who would "walk into a trap", unawares.

Having said this, I will answer your OP. I wouldst EVERY "man" call me a "liar". As, I know Jesus, and He knows me? And, I also know the Father, and He knows me as well!

As for you, and your question? I owe you, nor any man? NOTHING!



 

DayVerlo

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2017
28
1
0
Ya know? I keep rolling your question round n round in my mind, and that term "proof", or "prove", keeps coming up.

IN this, your original post (usually called OP), is there something "understood", that you are asking, yet not mentioning? Like "Prove to ME?" "Prove one's self!", To whom? The "Eyes of men?" Like some pharasetic braggart? Proof, by performing "Miracles?"

Methinks you need be a little more SPECIFIC, in what you are asking. In the apparent manner, you are asking, in these eyes, you look to be replacing, or feebly attempting to elevate yourself, as some form of an "oppressor", in trying to "squeeze" a response out of those who would "walk into a trap", unawares.

Having said this, I will answer your OP. I wouldst EVERY "man" call me a "liar". As, I know Jesus, and He knows me? And, I also know the Father, and He knows me as well!

As for you, and your question? I owe you, nor any man? NOTHING!



Other than gratitude for all the ease society offers. Try testing your nothing in a desert, with Noone to place your mail under a rock. No one to place bread on the slate you cannot wash. You Are the Words you speak and although it may seem appropriate to suggest we can get along with noone,
in truth it has taken the efforts of every ancestor of every person to give us this convenient lifestyle. Basically we live in their ideal Heaven.
Like Moses not living in the promised land yet his descends do/ did whichever applies. It is in Gratitude we can appreciate each other's ineffectiveness. Nothing does not exist other than in word form. It is inexperienceable.
So many stories of people who have turned at deaths door. Drs left astounded. modern miracles of healing from cancer and other illnesses. Stories in books of magazines not associated with Christian virtue Yet real people in this reality we live having overcome cause they will not give up.
Will not give in and Work tirelessly to find answers. And then share there knowledge so we may all learn from their experience in the hope someone else will not suffer as they did.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Other than gratitude for all the ease society offers. Try testing your nothing in a desert, with Noone to place your mail under a rock. No one to place bread on the slate you cannot wash. You Are the Words you speak and although it may seem appropriate to suggest we can get along with noone,
in truth it has taken the efforts of every ancestor of every person to give us this convenient lifestyle. Basically we live in their ideal Heaven.
Like Moses not living in the promised land yet his descends do/ did whichever applies. It is in Gratitude we can appreciate each other's ineffectiveness. Nothing does not exist other than in word form. It is inexperienceable.
So many stories of people who have turned at deaths door. Drs left astounded. modern miracles of healing from cancer and other illnesses. Stories in books of magazines not associated with Christian virtue Yet real people in this reality we live having overcome cause they will not give up.
Will not give in and Work tirelessly to find answers. And then share there knowledge so we may all learn from their experience in the hope someone else will not suffer as they did.
It is so easy, over time, as is written in the O.T., concerning Israel, that a "people", tend to "become" disassociated with the "Where and Whence", all blessings come from, and start heaping praise on the man, or men/women, from whose hands these blessings were made manifest through!

This "apostasy", has been driven by enemies of the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Light, ever since the "garden of Eden Incident", and, seems to be sliding even faster on this/these "banana peels", in these present days!

The phrase: "I don't want my kids to have it as hard as I did!" I had heard my Dad say this to us kids, usually around the dinner table, for an FYI point. In "reality", what this is doing, is transferring sometimes all, sometimes part, of the "agapeo", or unconditional love, that has been, and always meant to be between God, and His children! Not, man, and his children!

Thank you for picking up the OP's "baton" for him! (sarcasm implied)

 
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