The connection between Revelation and Daniel's 70th week

[Ahwatukee]

Good day Ellsworth1943,

And also, I do not like the man made word RAPTURE. The Scriptures we are gathered

Rapture, originating from Rapare which is the Latin version of the Greek "Harpazo" both meaning to seize, snatch, force suddenly exercised.

The seven year period will be the fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy 'sevens' that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem as described in Dan.9:24.

At the end of 7 sevens and 62 sevens, totaling 69 sevens, the Messiah was cut off (crucified). At that time God paused the last seven years to be completed in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

When the Messiah was cut off, he then began to build the church. Once the church has been completed the Lord will descend from heaven with the dead in Christ rising first and then those in Christ who are still alive will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be snatched up "harpazo" in the clouds with those who will have just been resurrected. From there John 14:1-3 will be fulfilled where the Lord takes the entire church back to the Father's house that where He is we may be also.

The mention of the 1290 and 1335 days will most likely be times during which the judgment of the sheep and goats will take place and any other pre-millennial business which are 30 and 45 days past the 3 1/2 year mark after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

Good day Ellsworth1943,



Rapture, originating from Rapare which is the Latin version of the Greek "Harpazo" both meaning to seize, snatch, force suddenly exercised.

The seven year period will be the fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy 'sevens' that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem as described in Dan.9:24.

At the end of 7 sevens and 62 sevens, totaling 69 sevens, the Messiah was cut off (crucified). At that time God paused the last seven years to be completed in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

When the Messiah was cut off, he then began to build the church. Once the church has been completed the Lord will descend from heaven with the dead in Christ rising first and then those in Christ who are still alive will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be snatched up "harpazo" in the clouds with those who will have just been resurrected. From there John 14:1-3 will be fulfilled where the Lord takes the entire church back to the Father's house that where He is we may be also.

The mention of the 1290 and 1335 days will most likely be times during which the judgment of the sheep and goats will take place and any other pre-millennial business which are 30 and 45 days past the 3 1/2 year mark after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age.

See post #10

 

[Ahwatukee]

See post #10

I don't need to see post 10. What I have said is the truth of Scripture.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I know you will not accept this, but you are not always correct in your belief.

What I have said, I have provided with scripture, which you and others ignore.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

What I have said, I have provided with scripture, which you and others ignore.

See post #10
You are not as perfect in your understanding as you believe. While I agree with some of what you say, much of it is wrong, and you use way to much private interpretation of Scripture to prove your points.
I know you disagree with me and any others that question you, but fact is fact.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What are you talking about.... You tell everyone to read it literally yet, you assume the timelines in Rev. along with days for each???????/ There are some chapters in Revelation that are strictly an 'article' type. By that I mean that Revelation takes a subject and simply expands upon it. I think you need to ck your hermeneutics

There's nothing wrong with my Hermeneutics. I take all prophecies regarding the 70th week into account. I have specifically pointed out that the Antichrist and Satan will be in total control of the world for 3 1/2 years (Rev 13). I have also indicated that that number is expressed in days, months, and years. It is also expressed as "time (1 year), times (2 years), and half a time ( 6 months) which is also equal to 3 1/2 years. So when you go to Daniel and read about this period and connect it to Revelation, you will discover that there are two segments to Daniel's 70th week. The first segment is for the rule of the Antichrist. In the middle of 7-year period he sets up the Abomination of Desolation. That is detailed in Revelation 13. Following which the Great Tribulation begins (Revelation 14-18). This is also corroborated in the Olivet Discourse. So to sum up:

Time, times, and half a time = 3 1/2 years
1260 days = 3 1/2 years (the prophetic Hebrew month = 30 days)
42 months = 3 1/2 years.

The 70th "week" is a heptad (literally "a seven") in Hebrew (shabua) which can mean either a week of days or a week of years. Since the 70 weeks in Daniel are actual 70 "sevens", they are equal to 490 years. However 483 years have already been fulfilled, but since the Abomination of Desolation is yet future (and also corresponds to 2 Thess 2), the final "week" of the 70 weeks is yet to be fulfilled. Since that is a period of 7 years, the first half is 3 1/2 years (Antichrist's rule) and the second half (3 1/2 years) is the Great Tribulation (the Day of the LORD). The other numbers mentioned in Daniel revolve around these two periods.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There's nothing wrong with my Hermeneutics. I take all prophecies regarding the 70th week into account. I have specifically pointed out that the Antichrist and Satan will be in total control of the world for 3 1/2 years (Rev 13). I have also indicated that that number is expressed in days, months, and years. It is also expressed as "time (1 year), times (2 years), and half a time ( 6 months) which is also equal to 3 1/2 years. So when you go to Daniel and read about this period and connect it to Revelation, you will discover that there are two segments to Daniel's 70th week. The first segment is for the rule of the Antichrist. In the middle of 7-year period he sets up the Abomination of Desolation. That is detailed in Revelation 13. Following which the Great Tribulation begins (Revelation 14-18). This is also corroborated in the Olivet Discourse. So to sum up:

Time, times, and half a time = 3 1/2 years
1260 days = 3 1/2 years (the prophetic Hebrew month = 30 days)
42 months = 3 1/2 years.

The 70th "week" is a heptad (literally "a seven") in Hebrew (shabua) which can mean either a week of days or a week of years. Since the 70 weeks in Daniel are actual 70 "sevens", they are equal to 490 years. However 483 years have already been fulfilled, but since the Abomination of Desolation is yet future (and also corresponds to 2 Thess 2), the final "week" of the 70 weeks is yet to be fulfilled. Since that is a period of 7 years, the first half is 3 1/2 years (Antichrist's rule) and the second half (3 1/2 years) is the Great Tribulation (the Day of the LORD). The other numbers mentioned in Daniel revolve around these two periods.

Well said! The only thing that I would add, is that even though the middle of the seven years marks the beginning of the great tribulation period, the second 3 1/2 year period is also the time of the antichrists rule, as Rev.13:4-5 states that he is given authority over the great tribulation saints to conquer them and make war against them and that the rest of the world will worship him during that last 3 1/2 years.

Also, I have noticed in different posts that you seem to be alluding that the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as not beginning until the middle of the seven years. And if this is true, why don't you believe that God's wrath starts at the beginning of the seven years?

PS I was trying to send a private message to you, but you either have it turned off or you are not set up to receive them.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Well said! The only thing that I would add, is that even though the middle of the seven years marks the beginning of the great tribulation period, the second 3 1/2 year period is also the time of the antichrists rule, as Rev.13:4-5 states that he is given authority over the great tribulation saints to conquer them and make war against them and that the rest of the world will worship him during that last 3 1/2 years.

Since only 3 1/2 years are allotted to Satan and the Antichrist for total control of the world, we need to determine which segment is allotted. Therefore according to Daniel 9:27, it would be appropriate to allot only the first 3 1/2 years to the Antichrist: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Also, I have noticed in different posts that you seem to be alluding that the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as not beginning until the middle of the seven years. And if this is true, why don't you believe that God's wrath starts at the beginning of the seven years?

I agree that the wrath of God is poured out before the middle of the 70th week (perhaps just when the Antichrist takes control, so right at the beginning) and is intensified after that. So the way I look at the seals (to harmonize with the Olivet Discourse) is:

Seals 1-4 (have been open from the first century as seen in Matthew 24:5-14)

Seal 6 (events actually occur after the Great Tribulation Matthew 24:29)

Seal 7: First six trumpet judgments -- first half of 70th week (Rev 8-13)

Seventh trumpet judgments -- second half of 70th week (Matthew 24:21; Rev 14-18)

 

[dcontroversal]

This is an attempt to make a mishmash of the 70th week (which has absolutely nothing to do with the ministry of Jesus in Israel).

The first half of the 70th week is described in Revelation 13.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [3 1/2 years]

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

What you say really carries no weight with me concerning the end of the age....I could care less how you describe it and or what you believe to be honest!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Seals 1-4 (have been open from the first century as seen in Matthew 24:5-14)

The scriptural problem that I have with the above, is that the 1st seal, the rider on the white horse, is symbolic representing the anitichrist, who goes out to conquer and is bent conquest. That said, since the 1st seal is the revealing of the antichrist, how could seals 1-4 have taken place in the first century, when the antichrist has yet to be revealed?

Also, the result of first four seals will be a fourth of the earths population being killed, which based on the worlds current population, would be approx.1.7 billion fatalities within the first 3 1/2 years, the likes of which the world has definitely not yet seen.

Seal 6 (events actually occur after the Great Tribulation Matthew 24:29)

How is the above possible, when the 7th trumpet/3rd woe takes place in the middle of the seven years where Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth? In support of this, after Satan is cast down to the earth, he goes after the woman/Israel who flees out into the desert where she is cared for by God for 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period.

Seal 7: First six trumpet judgments -- first half of 70th week (Rev 8-13)

The first six trumpets are not the 7th seal, but follow after it. The order is seven seals, followed by seven trumpets, with the seven bowl judgments completing God's wrath. How could you have the six seals occurring after the great tribulation, when Jesus returns immediately after the great tribulation, which is concluded by the 7th bowl being poured out?

Seals 1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 6, 7
_________________Trumpets 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
______________________________________Bowls 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
________________________________________________________ The Lord returns to the earth

The end of the great tribulation and the entire seven years, is completed after the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments have taken place, with Christ and the church returning to the earth to end the age. There is no more wrath after the great tribulation period.

 

[Bladerunner]

Agree with 98% of this.......the only thing I see different

30 days of peace <--peace and safety sudden destruction
1260 days of the great tribulation
45 days of wrath

1335 days....

1185 days personal ministry of Jesus unto Israel
1335 days last time period of the 70th week

Together = 70th week

The more I read this thread the more depressed I get... Where do you come up with all of these interpretations? please tell me....

 

[Nehemiah6]

The scriptural problem that I have with the above, is that the 1st seal, the rider on the white horse, is symbolic representing the anitichrist, who goes out to conquer and is bent conquest. That said, since the 1st seal is the revealing of the antichrist, how could seals 1-4 have taken place in the first century, when the antichrist has yet to be revealed?

It is generally assumed that this rider represents the Antichrist. On the other hand, we definitely need to harmonize the seals with the Olivet Discourse, and the first things we notice there is: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. So the first seal represents false Christs and false prophets (v. 11).

We come to the next seal and we find "power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another". This corresponds to"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars...For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom".

We come to the next seal and we find A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. This corresponds to "and there shall be famines".

We come to the next seal and we find And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger [already covered], and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. This corresponds to "and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

We come to the next seal and we find And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. This corresponds to "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

So unless we are prepared to see the Olivet Discourse as an overview of the book of Revelation, with the second coming of Christ as the culmination (Rev 19), we are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth. At the same time, the Olivet Discourse does not cover Rev 20-22, but that's a separate issue. What we have in the Olivet Discourse is a summation of all that will happen between the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem (70 AD) and the second coming of Christ. What we have in Revelation 6-19 is an expansion of those prophecies.

We can discuss the other issues at another time.

 

[dcontroversal]

The more I read this thread the more depressed I get... Where do you come up with all of these interpretations? please tell me....

No need to get depressed...just get right!

 

[Locutus]

Does anyone have an explanation as to how, why or if the judgments of Revelation coincide with the general time frame of Daniel's 70th week? As I understand it the judgments of Revelation, starting with the 4 horses, apply to the whole world but Daniel's 70th week applies only to the Jews at the end-times.

Thanks!

Revelation did not apply to the "whole world" it was centered on the great city - apostate 1st century Jerusalem.

Daniel's 70th week was the judgement on that 1st century city and John's revelation is the "filling out" of that time.


Dan 9:24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

The "your people" were the people of Israel both believing and unbelieving and "your holy city" was 1st century Jerusalem.

 

[dcontroversal]

Revelation did not apply to the "whole world" it was centered on the great city - apostate 1st century Jerusalem.

Daniel's 70th week was the judgement on that 1st century city and John's revelation is the "filling out" of that time.


Dan 9:24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

The "your people" were the people of Israel both believing and unbelieving and "your holy city" was 1st century Jerusalem.

Do you own stock in the little comic books that you get in the cracker jack boxes? The above...all I can do is shake my head and think to myself....this guy must get what he believes off the back of a DC comic book.....

 

[MattforJesus]

The 70 weeks apply to the Jews because they have 70 weeks to get in the truth,and acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah,and this only applies to the nation of Israel(Daniel 9:24-27;Daniel 8:9-12;Daniel 11:31-35;2 Thessalonians 2:1-13;Matthew 24:15-24),for God has the plan to restore the kingdom on earth to the nation of Israel(Acts 1:6-11:Ezekiel 39:23-29;Zechariah 14),and said that He will make a full end of all Gentile nations,but will not make a full end of Israel(Jeremiah 46:27-28).

The Bible says Israel is blinded in part,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,and so all Israel shall be saved(Romans 11:25-29).

Israel acknowledges the Old Testament,but not the New,for the majority of them,and when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,God will send Israel 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth,and the kingdom on earth shall be restored to Israel,and Jesus and the saints will rule over the people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

The 70th week has not happened yet,for Israel is still blinded in part,and the Gentiles still have salvation available to them.

God said He will gather all of Jacob,the whole house of Jacob back to their land,and restore the kingdom to them,and He will never hide His face from them again,and they will know the LORD from that day and forward.

If this were in the past Israel as a nation would of been in the truth from that day,and forever,but we see they are not in the truth.

The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East,and it will pave the way for all Jews to go back to Israel,which God said He will leave none of the Jews in the nations,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated.

The Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians,and rebuild their temple with no hassle from the Palestinians.

The Gentile nations will come together,and say,Peace and safety,and will try to establish peace on earth(1 Thessalonians 5:1-6).

For three and one half years the world still has salvation available to them,and they will operate by a ten horn kingdom,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section(Daniel 7:7-8,23-27),and a unified religious system,based on the new age movement(1 Timothy 4:1-5,2 Timothy 4:2-4),spiritual evolution through nature,and all religions interpreted as such,and it will be a hate crime punishable in the international criminal court system,for all are valid,and Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth.

The religion of Islam rebels against the operation of the ten horn kingdom,and the unified religious system,and war breaks out between them,and one third of the population of the world perishes,and three sections of the world,the Arab nations are plucked up by the roots,nuclear weapons(Daniel 7:7-8;Revelation 9:13-21).

The ten horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace on earth,and after the 6th trumpet the world does not repent of their sins,and does not turn to God,but keeps trying to solve their problems on earth,so God gives the world the man of sin,the beast,to rule over them(Daniel 7:23-25;2 Thessalonians 2:1-13;Revelation 13:1-10).

War breaks out in heaven,and the devils are cast to earth(Revelation 12:7-17),and the earth becomes the habitation of devils(Revelation 18:1-3;2 Thessalonians 2:7-12),and they will deceive all people who do not love God,and they will follow the beast kingdom.

The man of sin will step in to the Jews temple,and claim to be God,and their Messiah,and will convince the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and evolved,and will share this power with all who follow him.

Then the beast and the world will persecute saints(Daniel 7:25;Daniel 8:23-25;Daniel 12:7;Revelation 13:7-10),and at the end of the last three and one half years those that remain will be gathered unto Christ,and the beast and the world attack Jerusalem,the Jews,and God comes back with the saints,and defeats the world,and saves Israel.

Israel is protected from physical attack during the 7 years period(Revelation 12:6;13-16),for God has the plan to bring her to the truth,and restore the kingdom on earth to her.

The 70 weeks apply to Israel,that they have to come to the truth as a nation,and is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,so He can end this sin business on earth,and brings Israel to the truth.

If the 70 weeks happened in the first century Israel as a nation would of been in the truth from that point,and forward,and the Gentiles would not have salvation available to them after that point,and there would of been no operating Gentile government,and nation,after that point.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

This has to be a future event,and when it happens,then Israel will always be in the truth from that point,and forward.

But we see that Israel as a nation is not in the truth,so there is prophesy to go,and not all prophesy fulfilled in the first century.

The book of Revelation is a warning to the world to get right with God,before He puts an end to this sin business on earth,and salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles.

 

[Locutus]

...all I can do is shake my head and think to myself....

Don't shake too hard the marble will fall out...