Why Does Jesus Need To Have the Keys of Hell?

Dino246 · Oct 22, 2017

The KJV does translate several words as "hell"; that is a provable fact. It is also an adequate reason not to choose the KJV. Where is the denigration?

By your own reasoning, every negative comment you or others make about the NIV, NASB, ESV, or any other sound translation is "attacking the Holy Scriptures". Therefore, you should stop.

Enow said:

Once again, you've lumped so many clauses into a single sentence that its meaning is muddled. Please, for the sake of your readers, learn howto construct concise sentences.

Without the bafflegab of unnecessary clauses, here is what you claim: "the call is given out to (some people) to (do something) by (some method) for (some purpose)"

The "do something" is "depart from iniquity". The "some method" is "by going before the throne of grace". The "some purpose" is, in your claim, "help to see the truth in the KJV...".

So, I ask you a simple question: Where in the Bible is the call given to anyone to go before the Lord for help to see the truth in the KJV?

Bladerunner · Oct 23, 2017

trofimus said:

I heard a highly recognized scholar answer a question about what he thought about the NIV version of the Bible. He told them in exact terms that the version (to be nice) was really bad BUT He had to question the people who read it... Did they really care if it was right or wrong?

I don't think you are getting what the keys of death and hell are. The death of the fleshly body and Hell (hades) for the spirit of the body. When Jesus was resurrected he defeated death thus "holds the Keys to Death and Hell". If you look upon him and believe in HIM, then you shall never die or be in hell (or hades if you prefer)

Locutus · Oct 23, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

What's blasphemous is you and your KJV onlyism and attempts at discrediting newer translations.

kjfriend · Oct 23, 2017

The fruit of the newer translations is false Christianity but use what you want. If you are seeking the truth, you will be led to the KJV or older copies in other languages. God is not the author of confusion. It is not to insult people or make them upset. It is very liberating not to have to have to constantly use different versions or memorize in different versions. God makes it simple for you to know which Bible to use. Until you get it, use whatever you want. I believe true Christians will eventually understand that modern Bible versions are not the inspired word of God and if you have a Bible with commentary, it is not God's word but 2 different books mixed together. (Word of God and the word of man).

nddreamer · Oct 23, 2017

Dear kjfriend, YES!

Locutus · Oct 23, 2017

Now we've got 3 beating the:

Enow · Oct 23, 2017

The replies given does not prove any one's point when hades and hell is the same thing.

Apparently, this is another example of those who resist the truth when Hades also has torment and fire as stated in the NIV.

Remember the parable of the rich man and the beggar, Lazarus? Regardless of what version you use if they switched out hell with hades, the conditions is the same ... fire and torture.

Luke 16:[SUP]22 [/SUP]“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. [SUP]23[/SUP]In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ NIV

So hades and hell is one and the same even in the NIV, but the NIV does not maintain the message as the KJV does in truth as explained in post # 8 of this thread about Luke 17:37 as to way the NIV has it, is a lie.

So we got anti-KJVers that hate the truths in His words, making a federal case out of nothing while ignoring plain outright changes in His words in modern Bible versions that changes His message and therefore making that Bible version having a lie among the truths in His words.

And yet there can be no lie of the truth.

Luke 17:[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP] 33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.[SUP] 34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.[SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[SUP] 36 [/SUP]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. KJV

Luke 17:[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Where, Lord?” they asked.He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” NIV

In the context of the message, in remembering Lot's wife is not to stay behind in favor of this life we are living on earth; thus a taking away at the pre trib rapture event is to escape the coming fiery judgment on the earth that will serve as a catalyst for the new world order and the mark of the beast system for the coming great tribulation.

The NIV inputs "dead" to the body "of believers" that will be taken and switched out eagles to vultures and have completely changed the message given by Jesus, and thus a lie. Indeed, because of this lie, some false teachers argue that there will be no pre trib rapture but a taking away of evil people instead, and thus ignoring the context in regards to Lot's wife.

You decide if you want to quibble over wordings like hades as better than hell to favor the NIV over the KJV, or if you prefer now to have the truth in His words to not change the message He wants us to have which has been maintained in the KJV.

I am sticking with the truth in His words which are in KJV.

Pilgrim33 · Oct 23, 2017

Why not use the bible the Pilgrims who landed on Plymouth read? The Geneva Bible predates the Authourized Version and is no less 'the Word of God'. Well, for that matter, any written account should be as valid. Do we put our faith in a book?

Nehemiah6 · Oct 23, 2017

Pilgrim33 said:

When we put our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and in God the Father, we simultaneously put our faith in the book that they have given to us through the Holy Spirit. There is no conflict between the Geneva Bible and the Authorized Version (the KJB). Indeed it was the Puritans within the Church of England who were instrumental in convincing King James I to proceed with a new translation. And whether we like it or not, the King James Bible became the Holy Bible of all English-speaking people worldwide for at least 300 years. And when we compare the two Reformation Bibles, we see that the KJB has much to recommend it.

Bladerunner · Oct 23, 2017

Pilgrim33 said:

Of course if you do not truly believe in Jesus, any old book will do...Try those from the Harry Potter Series....

garee · Oct 23, 2017

John146 said:

Death and Hades is the gate of hell . If it does offend its meant to.

garee · Oct 23, 2017

Miri said:

Amen . Christ is the key the open door. The same key that binds the father of lies in a bottomless pit releases those in bondage to the will of Satan..

Enow · Oct 23, 2017

Pilgrim33 said:

One of the reasons that the Puritans had asked King James for a new Bible version was because the 1599 Geneva Bible had errant marginal notes that were running against the truth in the written scripture of that Bible version.

If I recall correctly, one example of an errant marginal note in the 1599 Geneva Bible was testifying that Jesus was the arch angel Micheal.

Another example is where a marginal note encourages to rebel against those in authority thus running contrary against what has been plainly written in Romans 13.

So go figure that by the time they got that first new Bible version done by 1611, it sure did not take some of the Puritans long to complain about those errant marginal notes in the 1599 Geneva Bible Version. I believe the Puritans were religiously strict in disciplining followers to abide in His words and I am sure that errant marginal note had caused trouble for them.

Granted, it is not like they can publish Bibles like they do today, so I am sure the Pilgrims took what was available at that time since it would be already in their possessions to use, but I bet not very many individuals as pilgrims had that 1599 Geneva Bible, but pastors or leaders of the community did; otherwise, I could see the problems it could cause in the early settlement of the Pilgrims.

Dino246 · Oct 23, 2017

Enow said:

"Anti-KJVers that hate the truths in His words": one person who points out a weakness in the KJV.
"a federal case": half a sentence in a single post.
"nothing": a proveable fact that contradicts the KJV-only position.
"ignoring plain outright changes in His words": a tu quoque fallacy invalidating everything stated after.

...

"Shameful": reliance upon hyperbole-infused rhetoric and misrepresentation instead of sound reasoning to defend one's opinion.

notuptome · Oct 23, 2017

Keys are a symbol of authority.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

seed_time_harvest · Oct 23, 2017

Enow said:

GOD loves righteousness and although HE Is sovereign and ALMIGHTY and could have taken power that Adam handed over to the devil HE Is righteous and TRUE and that's why HE entered the world the righteous way and became the SON of GOD.

Fully GOD and fully man.GOD In CHRIST,the Messiah.The ONLY way man could be In right standing before GOD was to fulfill GOD's perfect standard of righteousness,perfectly.

JESUS took the punishment for our sins on a cross as a man satisfying the demand of the law and taking power that was originally handed over to adam as a man back from the devil and now all power In heaven AND earth was now HIS RIGHTEOUSLY and TRUE and before HE left HE made a way for man to relate to GOD by(Grace through Faith) once again,those who believe In the WORD of GOD would not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE.
+++
Hebrews 1:7-10
King James Version(KJV)

7.) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 .)But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10...) And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Enow · Oct 23, 2017

seed_time_harvest said:

The latter portion of that quote should read; "and that's why HE entered the world the righteous way and became the SON of MAN." because the Word of God was always the Son of God. It was at His incarnation that He became the Son of Man.

Since mankind was created in His image, and no man has seen God the Father but the Son has, then those accounts in the O.T. where men had seen God and lived, that was the Son of God and Jesus testified that Moses had written of Him.

John 5:[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[SUP] 40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.[SUP] 47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

seed_time_harvest · Oct 23, 2017

Enow said:

The latter portion of that quote should read; "and that's why HE entered the world the righteous way and became the SON of MAN." because the Word of God was always the Son of God. It was at His incarnation that He became the Son of Man.

Since mankind was created in His image, and no man has seen God the Father but the Son has, then those accounts in the O.T. where men had seen God and lived, that was the Son of God and Jesus testified that Moses had written of Him.

John 5:[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[SUP] 40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.[SUP] 47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Since you want to pick at It,let's just say HE was fully GOD and fully man.

Enow · Oct 23, 2017

seed_time_harvest said:

Well, it was for clarity sake since somebody might take your quote of "He became the Son of God" in that way as if He was not always the Son of God.

I know I need His help to say what I really mean and not say something that doesn't really represent my belief in Him.

That is why we need each other to correct or to clarify so that no one reading our unclear posts may go astray or misunderstood what it is we are saying when we testify of Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 27:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

fredoheaven · Oct 24, 2017

trofimus said:

KJV does good in translating in the above passage where the NIV didn't. Hades is simply transliterating the Greek word. The transliteration can be misleading where 'hades' in Greek Methodology may refer to the greek god. Here is an interesting article from Wiki:

In Greek mythology, Hades the god of the underworld, was a son of the Titans Cronus and Rhea. He had three sisters, Demeter, Hestia, and Hera, as well as two brothers, Zeus, the youngest of the three, and Poseidon. Upon reaching adulthood, Zeus managed to force his father to disgorge his siblings. After their release, the six younger gods, along with allies they managed to gather, challenged the elder gods for power in the Titanomachy, a divine war. The war lasted for ten years and ended with the victory of the younger gods. Following their victory, according to a single famous passage in the Iliad (xv.187–93), Hades and his two brothers, Poseidon and Zeus, drew lots[SUP][20][/SUP] for realms to rule. Zeus received the sky, Poseidon received the seas, and Hades received the underworld,[SUP][21][/SUP] the unseen realm to which the souls of the dead go upon leaving the world as well as any and all things beneath the earth. Some myths suggest that Hades was dissatisfied with his turnout, but had no choice and moved to his new realm.[SUP][22][/SUP]
Hades obtained his wife and queen, Persephone, through abduction at the behest of Zeus. This myth is the most important one Hades takes part in;[SUP][23][/SUP] it also connected the Eleusinian Mysteries with the Olympian pantheon, particularly as represented in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, which is the oldest story of the abduction, most likely dating back to the beginning of the 6th Century BC.[SUP][10][/SUP] Helios told the grieving Demeter that Hades was not unworthy as a consort for Persephone:

Aidoneus, the Ruler of Many, is no unfitting husband among the deathless gods for your child, being your own brother and born of the same stock: also, for honor, he has that third share which he received when division was made at the first, and is appointed lord of those among whom he dwells.
— Homeric Hymn to Demeter[SUP][24][/SUP]

Despite modern connotations of death as evil, Hades was actually more altruistically inclined in mythology. Hades was often portrayed as passive rather than evil; his role was often maintaining relative balance. That said, he was also depicted as cold and stern, and he held all of his subjects equally accountable to his laws.[SUP][25][/SUP] Any other individual aspects of his personality are not given, as Greeks refrained from giving him much thought to avoid attracting his attention.[SUP][19][/SUP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades

Why Does Jesus Need To Have the Keys of Hell?

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