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Bible prophecy was never meant to be confusion. Yes we are in the end times and many prophecies will be fulfilled. As to the Rapture, it has always been imminent, which means it could even be today. As to the theories, you would be better off studing the Bible and determining how everything will play out. So what should be expected (not necessarily by you or other Christians, but how the future will unfold):
1. The Resurrection/Rapture
2. The Tribulation (3 1/2 years)
3. The Great Tribulation (3 1/2 years)
4. The fulfillment of all events within the 6th and 7th seals of Revelation (in #2 and #3)
5. The judgment of Christians at the Judgment Seat of Christ (in Heaven)
6. The Marriage of the Lamb
7. The Second Coming of Christ
There will be many things which will happen following the second coming, but that would get too detailed.
1. The Resurrection/Rapture
2. The Tribulation (3 1/2 years)
3. The Great Tribulation (3 1/2 years)
4. The fulfillment of all events within the 6th and 7th seals of Revelation (in #2 and #3)
5. The judgment of Christians at the Judgment Seat of Christ (in Heaven)
6. The Marriage of the Lamb
7. The Second Coming of Christ
There will be many things which will happen following the second coming, but that would get too detailed.
Greetings MorningGlory,
First of all, the "day of the Lord" has been prophesied by the OT prophets and the apostles, which is described as a time of darkness, fierce wrath and anger. It will be an unprecedented time of God's coming wrath which will coincide with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Below are some of the prophesies regarding the day of the Lord:
"Isaiah 13:6-8 - Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. Because of this, all hands will go limp; every man’s heart will melt. Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame. "
Isaiah 13:9-13 - See, the day of the Lord is coming -a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger--to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.
Zephaniah 1:2-3 – “I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” declares the Lord. “I will sweep away both men and animals; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth,“ declares the Lord.
The book of Revelation from chapter 6 thru 18 is a detailed account of the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues of wrath that will be performed by the two witnesses during the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's seven year period, as revealed in Rev.11:3-12
In relation to God's coming wrath, we have a promise from the Lord stating that he went to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that he would be coming back to take us with him to the Father's house as stated in John 14:1-3:
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."
The detailed account of the promise above is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep (be dead), but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
Therefore, putting aside the timing of the event above, it must take place and that because it is written. The promise is to those who have died in Christ and to those who are still living when this event takes place, which is imminent i.e. always about to happen.
Now in regards to the Lord's coming for his church and God's unprecedented time of wrath, we have other promises which state that we (believers in Christ) are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath and that he would keep us out of that time of wrath, as can be seen from the following scriptures:
"for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath" -1 Thessalonians 1:9-10
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." - 1 Thes.5:8-9
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth." - Rev.3:10
So, we have God's coming wrath soon to come upon this earth and we have scriptures that say that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath and that Jesus delivers us from it. We therefore cannot go through or be exposed to God's coming wrath.
Those who have received Christ have been credited with righteousness (Romans 4:23) and have been reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:18).
Since we have been credited with the righteousness of Christ and have been reconciled to God and that we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath or any wrath, we must then be removed from this earth prior to the beginning of God's wrath.
The underlying principle of this is that the Lord coming in the flesh met the righteous requirements of the law, completely and fully satisfying it. Likewise, the wrath that all believers deserve was put on Christ so that God's wrath has been satisfied completely for everyone who believes in him. And finally, the word of God says that "unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins" which Christ paid for every believer. Therefore, the wrath of God will not be directed to those who are in Christ, but to the rest of the Christ rejecting world. And since God's wrath will be world wide, affecting all of the inhabitants, we, the church, cannot be here and must be removed prior to God's wrath, which begins at the opening of the first seal, which is followed by the trumpets with the bowl judgments being last and completing God's wrath (Rev.15:1-2)
The time of God's wrath upon this earth is approaching quickly. And because of this, the time of the appearing of the Lord to remove his church is even nearer.
The other versions have believers in Christ going through the time of God's wrath ignoring the promises and or watering down God's coming wrath and/or relocating it, historicizing or allegorizing it and not recognizing it. They also do not recognize that the event of the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Below is a brief description of the order of events:
* We are here!
* The Lord descends into the atmosphere and gathers his church, taking them to the Father's house
* First seal opened with the rider on the white horse representing the antichrist
* Seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation throughout the entire seven years
* Christ returns to the earth to end the age and the church will return with him (Rev.19:6-8, 14)
* The beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20)
* Satan is seized and thrown into the Abyss during that thousand years (Rev.20:1-3)
* Thousand year reign of Christ
* Satan released at the end of the thousand years for one last rebellion
* Satan thrown into the Lake of fire where the beast and false prophet will be (Rev.20:10)
* Great white throne judgment for all of the unrighteous dead
* Eternity - New heaven, new earth, net Jerusalem (Rev.21 & 22)
I hope this helps with your understanding of these events. The best way to know is to look at the scriptures that I have provided and to do your own studies on end-time events.
First of all, the "day of the Lord" has been prophesied by the OT prophets and the apostles, which is described as a time of darkness, fierce wrath and anger. It will be an unprecedented time of God's coming wrath which will coincide with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Below are some of the prophesies regarding the day of the Lord:
"Isaiah 13:6-8 - Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. Because of this, all hands will go limp; every man’s heart will melt. Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame. "
Isaiah 13:9-13 - See, the day of the Lord is coming -a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger--to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.
Zephaniah 1:2-3 – “I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” declares the Lord. “I will sweep away both men and animals; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth,“ declares the Lord.
The book of Revelation from chapter 6 thru 18 is a detailed account of the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues of wrath that will be performed by the two witnesses during the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's seven year period, as revealed in Rev.11:3-12
In relation to God's coming wrath, we have a promise from the Lord stating that he went to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that he would be coming back to take us with him to the Father's house as stated in John 14:1-3:
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."
The detailed account of the promise above is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep (be dead), but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
Therefore, putting aside the timing of the event above, it must take place and that because it is written. The promise is to those who have died in Christ and to those who are still living when this event takes place, which is imminent i.e. always about to happen.
Now in regards to the Lord's coming for his church and God's unprecedented time of wrath, we have other promises which state that we (believers in Christ) are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath and that he would keep us out of that time of wrath, as can be seen from the following scriptures:
"for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath" -1 Thessalonians 1:9-10
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." - 1 Thes.5:8-9
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth." - Rev.3:10
So, we have God's coming wrath soon to come upon this earth and we have scriptures that say that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath and that Jesus delivers us from it. We therefore cannot go through or be exposed to God's coming wrath.
Those who have received Christ have been credited with righteousness (Romans 4:23) and have been reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:18).
Since we have been credited with the righteousness of Christ and have been reconciled to God and that we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath or any wrath, we must then be removed from this earth prior to the beginning of God's wrath.
The underlying principle of this is that the Lord coming in the flesh met the righteous requirements of the law, completely and fully satisfying it. Likewise, the wrath that all believers deserve was put on Christ so that God's wrath has been satisfied completely for everyone who believes in him. And finally, the word of God says that "unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins" which Christ paid for every believer. Therefore, the wrath of God will not be directed to those who are in Christ, but to the rest of the Christ rejecting world. And since God's wrath will be world wide, affecting all of the inhabitants, we, the church, cannot be here and must be removed prior to God's wrath, which begins at the opening of the first seal, which is followed by the trumpets with the bowl judgments being last and completing God's wrath (Rev.15:1-2)
The time of God's wrath upon this earth is approaching quickly. And because of this, the time of the appearing of the Lord to remove his church is even nearer.
The other versions have believers in Christ going through the time of God's wrath ignoring the promises and or watering down God's coming wrath and/or relocating it, historicizing or allegorizing it and not recognizing it. They also do not recognize that the event of the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Below is a brief description of the order of events:
* We are here!
* The Lord descends into the atmosphere and gathers his church, taking them to the Father's house
* First seal opened with the rider on the white horse representing the antichrist
* Seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation throughout the entire seven years
* Christ returns to the earth to end the age and the church will return with him (Rev.19:6-8, 14)
* The beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20)
* Satan is seized and thrown into the Abyss during that thousand years (Rev.20:1-3)
* Thousand year reign of Christ
* Satan released at the end of the thousand years for one last rebellion
* Satan thrown into the Lake of fire where the beast and false prophet will be (Rev.20:10)
* Great white throne judgment for all of the unrighteous dead
* Eternity - New heaven, new earth, net Jerusalem (Rev.21 & 22)
I hope this helps with your understanding of these events. The best way to know is to look at the scriptures that I have provided and to do your own studies on end-time events.
Any prophetic time line must agree with the one shown by Paul in 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.
1. 1st resurrection, Jesus, first fruits.
2. 2nd resurrection, Those who are His at His coming.
3. Death is destroyed, Also see Rev 20:14-15.
4. The kingdom is delivered up to the Father, Also see Rev 21:1-2.
5. Jesus and the Father, All in All.
See that there are only 2 resurrections.
Please take special note, that the kingdom is not delivered up to the Father until AFTER death is destroyed.
--
Matt 24:29-31,
----
Matt 24:27-28, Jesus talks here about His coming to destroy Jerusalem and links it to Roman armies (eagles, KJV)
V 27 Begins with after the trib of those days, that is the dest of Jeru 70 AD, so the events mentioned take place after the dest.
The events are: Sun and moon darkened, The understanding of the Law and prophets is dimmed, (after rejecting the kingdom, resulting in the dest of Jeru.)
Stars shall fall, Israelites will be killed.
Powers of heaven shall be shaken, Spiritual changes, in this case, Israel's fall from God's blessings continues.
-
V 30, This sign happens at the end of the ToG's, Israel is restored to Jerusalem.
The restoration of Israel to Jerusalem, has been prevented for 1900 years.
The efforts to discredit Israel as God's people, has been foremost in the minds/spirits of men for centuries.
The fact that Israel is restored to Jerusalem is a sign that everything is true. The tribes of the area are mourning the restoration right now, and many others.
-
V 31, See how this is a gathering, and not a scattering, like 70 AD?
And the trumpet that sounds, is NOT the 7th trumpet, it is the 5th trumpet.
The number "5", is symbolic of division or separation. The 10 virgins for example, 5 were wise, 5 were foolish.
The 5th trumpet calls for Israel to separate themselves from the gentile nations, at the end of the times of the gentiles and return to Israel to restore Jerusalem.
This trumpet sounded in 1929, when the Vatican became a nation and the Roman Empire was "reborn", comes out of the abyss.
The Israelites were driven from the gentile nations back to Jerusalem. (except those times be shortened, no flesh (of Israel) will be saved.)
This is a gathering, not a scattering.
I guess we missed it then. Might as well eat, drink, and be merry. And then we die and that's it, Right? No life after death? No judgement? No accounting for our deeds? no, every knee shall bow, and no every tongue shall confess?
We can't have eternal life?
That's what you seem to be saying.
"When these things begin", The apostles persecution, Pentecost. The kingdom, v 31.
Matt 24:29-31,
----
Matt 24:27-28, Jesus talks here about His coming to destroy Jerusalem and links it to Roman armies (eagles, KJV)
V 27 Begins with after the trib of those days, that is the dest of Jeru 70 AD, so the events mentioned take place after the dest.
The events are: Sun and moon darkened, The understanding of the Law and prophets is dimmed, (after rejecting the kingdom, resulting in the dest of Jeru.)
Stars shall fall, Israelites will be killed.
Powers of heaven shall be shaken, Spiritual changes, in this case, Israel's fall from God's blessings continues.
-
V 30, This sign happens at the end of the ToG's, Israel is restored to Jerusalem.
The restoration of Israel to Jerusalem, has been prevented for 1900 years.
The efforts to discredit Israel as God's people, has been foremost in the minds/spirits of men for centuries.
The fact that Israel is restored to Jerusalem is a sign that everything is true. The tribes of the area are mourning the restoration right now, and many others.
-
V 31, See how this is a gathering, and not a scattering, like 70 AD?
And the trumpet that sounds, is NOT the 7th trumpet, it is the 5th trumpet.
The number "5", is symbolic of division or separation. The 10 virgins for example, 5 were wise, 5 were foolish.
The 5th trumpet calls for Israel to separate themselves from the gentile nations, at the end of the times of the gentiles and return to Israel to restore Jerusalem.
This trumpet sounded in 1929, when the Vatican became a nation and the Roman Empire was "reborn", comes out of the abyss.
The Israelites were driven from the gentile nations back to Jerusalem. (except those times be shortened, no flesh (of Israel) will be saved.)
This is a gathering, not a scattering.
I guess we missed it then. Might as well eat, drink, and be merry. And then we die and that's it, Right? No life after death? No judgement? No accounting for our deeds? no, every knee shall bow, and no every tongue shall confess?
We can't have eternal life?
That's what you seem to be saying.
"When these things begin", The apostles persecution, Pentecost. The kingdom, v 31.
We can be certain that we are not going to resolve the argument on this thread.
IMO nothing in Scripture supports the idea of the Church enduring God's wrath.
The word Tribulation is the English translation of the Hebrew 'tsoor' and the Greek thlipsis. Both the Hebrew and the Greek words have a primary meaning of persecution of God's people by ungodly people or governments.
If we accept the premise that the Church will not endure God's wrath (some do not accept it); then there are three possibilities:
Pre-trib, mid trib, and pre-wrath. I hold a pre-wrath position and believe that the rapture will occur after the sixth seal is opened but before the seventh seal.
Rv 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
KJV
I believe that the appearance of this great multitude can only be explained by the raptured Church.
There are many people of good scholarship who disagree with me and many of good scholarship who agree with me so you will need to read Revelation prayerfully and be Guided by the Holy Spirit.
In any case it will happen when God is ready for it to happen and whether we have the timing right will IMO make little difference.
IMO nothing in Scripture supports the idea of the Church enduring God's wrath.
The word Tribulation is the English translation of the Hebrew 'tsoor' and the Greek thlipsis. Both the Hebrew and the Greek words have a primary meaning of persecution of God's people by ungodly people or governments.
If we accept the premise that the Church will not endure God's wrath (some do not accept it); then there are three possibilities:
Pre-trib, mid trib, and pre-wrath. I hold a pre-wrath position and believe that the rapture will occur after the sixth seal is opened but before the seventh seal.
Rv 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
KJV
I believe that the appearance of this great multitude can only be explained by the raptured Church.
There are many people of good scholarship who disagree with me and many of good scholarship who agree with me so you will need to read Revelation prayerfully and be Guided by the Holy Spirit.
In any case it will happen when God is ready for it to happen and whether we have the timing right will IMO make little difference.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I only see 2 resurrections
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
This tells me that the two resurrections are separated by the 1000 years.
After the 1000 years is the 2nd resurrection and they (with Satan and all sin) are cased into the lake of fire.
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I only see 2 resurrections
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
This tells me that the two resurrections are separated by the 1000 years.
After the 1000 years is the 2nd resurrection and they (with Satan and all sin) are cased into the lake of fire.
A-F,
I used to hold a similar view. To understand the resurrection, one must first understand the "restoration of all things" and know what was severed that needed to be (and was) restored. It all started in the Garden with the original sin. The original sin caused Adam and Eve to die (spiritually) on that very day they sinned as God warned would happen. The very meaning of spiritual death isn't going to hell, it's being separated from God.
Spiritual death = Separation from God!!
Thus,
Salvation = Presence with God
Salvation is being Alive (spiritually). God is God of the living (spiritually living) not of the spiritually dead. The restoration or "time of refreshing" is a spiritual (NOT PHYSICAL) concept. The time of refreshing has nothing to do with thorns, weeds lions lying with lambs etc. It has nothing to do with physical earth being perfected again and people no longer dying physical deaths.
According to Peter (Acts 3), Christ brought the refreshing. He restored our connection to God and He did this when He returned to abolish the Law and open up salvation to the Gentiles. Salvation first came to the Jews, then the Greeks. According to Heb 9, it is appointed for all men to die, then comes the judgment. Notice "resurrection" is not mentioned in this passage?
In Eph 2, Satan is called, "the Prince of the Power of the Air." In this passage Satan is referred to as a spirit working in the "sons of disobedience." The term "air" or aer, is not the sky or the air we breathe. It is a figurative term which describes the spiritual realm in which we also reside. It is the same "air" in 1 Thes 4 where the living saints were caught up to meet the resurrected. Thus the catching up (which many refer to as the future rapture) is a spiritual gathering in the spiritual dimension whereby the dead saints prior to 70 AD were restored first followed by the living at the passing of the Law.
Since the Law passed away in 70 AD with the temple, believers who die immediately go to be with the Father. There is no more Hades for us. There is no more "resting" for us waiting for Christ to return and finish His work. Christ's work is done - IT IS FINISHED!!
I used to hold a similar view. To understand the resurrection, one must first understand the "restoration of all things" and know what was severed that needed to be (and was) restored. It all started in the Garden with the original sin. The original sin caused Adam and Eve to die (spiritually) on that very day they sinned as God warned would happen. The very meaning of spiritual death isn't going to hell, it's being separated from God.
Spiritual death = Separation from God!!
Thus,
Salvation = Presence with God
Salvation is being Alive (spiritually). God is God of the living (spiritually living) not of the spiritually dead. The restoration or "time of refreshing" is a spiritual (NOT PHYSICAL) concept. The time of refreshing has nothing to do with thorns, weeds lions lying with lambs etc. It has nothing to do with physical earth being perfected again and people no longer dying physical deaths.
According to Peter (Acts 3), Christ brought the refreshing. He restored our connection to God and He did this when He returned to abolish the Law and open up salvation to the Gentiles. Salvation first came to the Jews, then the Greeks. According to Heb 9, it is appointed for all men to die, then comes the judgment. Notice "resurrection" is not mentioned in this passage?
In Eph 2, Satan is called, "the Prince of the Power of the Air." In this passage Satan is referred to as a spirit working in the "sons of disobedience." The term "air" or aer, is not the sky or the air we breathe. It is a figurative term which describes the spiritual realm in which we also reside. It is the same "air" in 1 Thes 4 where the living saints were caught up to meet the resurrected. Thus the catching up (which many refer to as the future rapture) is a spiritual gathering in the spiritual dimension whereby the dead saints prior to 70 AD were restored first followed by the living at the passing of the Law.
Since the Law passed away in 70 AD with the temple, believers who die immediately go to be with the Father. There is no more Hades for us. There is no more "resting" for us waiting for Christ to return and finish His work. Christ's work is done - IT IS FINISHED!!
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so much spiritualizing and wrestin of scriptures.
restoration of things doesnt mean just spiritual restoration. it means all creation is restored. all creation is groaning for Jesus' return the bible teaches.
everything will change no more death tears sorrow pain. it will be all joy laughter righteousness and peace.
there will be new literal heaven and new literal earth.
there will be a real millennial kingdom headquartered in Jerusalem. God will keep His promise to give israel the kingdom and keep His word i believe.
restoration of things doesnt mean just spiritual restoration. it means all creation is restored. all creation is groaning for Jesus' return the bible teaches.
everything will change no more death tears sorrow pain. it will be all joy laughter righteousness and peace.
there will be new literal heaven and new literal earth.
there will be a real millennial kingdom headquartered in Jerusalem. God will keep His promise to give israel the kingdom and keep His word i believe.
Spiritual death, not physical. Separation from God (in Hades) was destroyed. Remember, Christ held the keys to Death and Hades? He already went down there and freed the captives. The Kingdom fills the Earth and is an everlasting Kingdom, having no end.
The wicked are the ones who have yet to be resurrected. This comes for them when they are resurrected unto the second death.
The wicked are the ones who have yet to be resurrected. This comes for them when they are resurrected unto the second death.
Get out of your carnal mindedness and start living in the Kingdom. We are not of this world. We are new creations ALREADY!! What does it mean to be a new creation? What else is required for us to become new creations? Was not the blood of Christ enough?
Seems like you are still waiting to become a new creation being no different than those who have no hope. The Kingdom is already established and is already headquartered in the new Jerusalem and we Gentiles are already grafted in.
Seems like you are still waiting to become a new creation being no different than those who have no hope. The Kingdom is already established and is already headquartered in the new Jerusalem and we Gentiles are already grafted in.
If you are a "new creation," the time of refreshing has come to you. The kingdom does not come with observation because it doesn't come in the physical, visible world that we all see every day. Christ is NEVER going to reign from an earthly temple made with hands. He reigns in the spiritual "temple" of which we all comprise.
are u saying that being in pain and suffering is living in the kingdom?
u are delusional. if this current life is all there is to the kingdom. this is a terrible kingdom. pain suffering disease, people born sick. yeah enjoy ur kingdom buddy. the devil is running wild in this world.
have fun telling to a sick person oh yeah ur a new creation in the kingdom.
this is what happens when u go so far into heresy. no denomination or church is so deep into heresy as u are in saying Jesus wont come back.
u are delusional. if this current life is all there is to the kingdom. this is a terrible kingdom. pain suffering disease, people born sick. yeah enjoy ur kingdom buddy. the devil is running wild in this world.
have fun telling to a sick person oh yeah ur a new creation in the kingdom.
this is what happens when u go so far into heresy. no denomination or church is so deep into heresy as u are in saying Jesus wont come back.
Rom 8:19 (Young's Literal) For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory about to be revealed in us;
Rom 8:20 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
Rom 8:21 that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
Paul stated that the revealing of the sons of God was about to be revealed in his day - this is totally misunderstood, the creation was/is the people of the earth not the earth itself including rocks, dirt and animals.
When the temple was destroyed along with the law the true sons of God were revealed as against those of Israel of the flesh who claimed to be the sons of the kingdom were cast out and destroyed.
Rom 8:20 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
Rom 8:21 that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
Paul stated that the revealing of the sons of God was about to be revealed in his day - this is totally misunderstood, the creation was/is the people of the earth not the earth itself including rocks, dirt and animals.
When the temple was destroyed along with the law the true sons of God were revealed as against those of Israel of the flesh who claimed to be the sons of the kingdom were cast out and destroyed.
Hi snoozy
I don't know what this guy is selling, but the scriptures speaks of two kingdoms, the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of God is within, heaven is above. We die and go to the heavenly. At the end, the new earth and heavens.
Dont let the guy mess with you.
I don't know what this guy is selling, but the scriptures speaks of two kingdoms, the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of God is within, heaven is above. We die and go to the heavenly. At the end, the new earth and heavens.
Dont let the guy mess with you.
im never gonna buy the snakeoil from these guys. only reason i even say something back is because im worried some new christians might fall for this heresy and shipwreck their faith.
this is why i believe its important to invite folks to a bible believing church when ur doing soul-winning.
get em saved and get em right on the discipleship path. will save them lots of trouble and headaches. ive seen some folks do a 180 degree turn like its nothing because they were fed with right doctrine from the beginning. they didnt have to go through trial and error.
God bless u
Hi snoozy
I don't know what this guy is selling, but the scriptures speaks of two kingdoms, the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of God is within, heaven is above. We die and go to the heavenly. At the end, the new earth and heavens.
Dont let the guy mess with you.
I don't know what this guy is selling, but the scriptures speaks of two kingdoms, the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of God is within, heaven is above. We die and go to the heavenly. At the end, the new earth and heavens.
Dont let the guy mess with you.
Look at what Isaiah said were the conditions after the creation of the New heavens and earth:
Isa 65:17 For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
Isa 65:20 “No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed.
In the above in the new heavens and there is still birth and death happening - this totally refutes the futurist view of the new heavens and earth.
And remember this is highly figurative language used by Isaiah