GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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TMS

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Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

which law? Paul quotes the last 5 of the 10 commandments.

notice how the 10 are divided into two stones 4 are about our love for God and the last 6 are about our love for each other.


Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.



Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

After giving the 10 commandments in chap 5
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
 
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Hizikyah

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1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”


Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”


1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."


Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love יהוה your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”


Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbour as yourself. I am יהוה.”
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Hello MarcR,

Are we reading from the same bible? You have to ignore a LOT of scriprture from the post you quoted in 2824 linked from to come up with your interpretation in this post. Are you saying that all the scriptures posted in post # 2824 linked is NOT referring to God's 10 Commandments?

Here let look at the context and the rest of the scriptures you have left out of your post highlighting 3 references of the many you ignored.

Lets start here and let God's Word define SIN ...........

James 2
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

Links to...........

Romans 7

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

links to...........

1 John 3
4 Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.
John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW.

So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)


Links to............

Romans 3

20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

So it is unanamous James, Paul and John all agree that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments.

Now that we have God's definition of SIN being BRAKING God's LAW (10 commandments) let's look at the claims you have posted here.............

No help at all!
1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
1 Jn 2:1
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
KJV

I see no mention of the 10 commandments. God commands that we be loving and forgiving. He does not put us under Law!
What is the CONTEXT of the Chapter?

1 John 2
1,
My little children, these things write I unto you, THAT YOU SIN NOT <Brake God's 10 Commandments> and if any man SIN < Brake God's 10 Commandments>, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2, And he is the propitiation for our SINS < Brake God's 10 Commandments>: and not for ours only, but also for the SINS < Brake God's 10 Commandments> of the whole world.
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments <Keep God's 10 Commandments>.
4, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5, But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked<Keep God's 10 Commandments>.
7, Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Now MarcR did you really miss that the context is talking about SIN <Brake God's 10 Commandments> and NOT SINNING<Brake God's 10 Commandments>, WALKING as JESUS walked <Keep God's 10 Commandments> and reference to the commandment from the beginning?

So yes marcR this one is indeed talking about SIN with is breaking God's 10 commandments. Those who are practicing KNOWN SIN as the scripture says above DO NOT KNOW HIM and are LYING if they say they do KNOW him (v3-4)

You are only "UNDER the LAW" if you are still in your SINS.

Romans 3
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Next ..................

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4. I see NO MENTION of Sabbath in Hebrews 4. The rest spoken is ceasing from our own works (i.e. Law keeping).
Context of Hebrews 4

3, For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4, For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Hebrews 4
(NAS)
9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath rest G4520 to the people of God.

The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)

Strong's Concordance 4520

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


Strong's Greek 4520

σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

There remains a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.

The context of Hebrews 4 is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5).

Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word.

The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8).

This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word today.

Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28; Matthre 12:8).

Next ..........................

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)

Jas 2:8
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
KJV

again no mention of the ten commandments!

The only thing this post accomplished was to bring your intellectual honesty into question.
Let's read the rest of the scriptures you left out.........

James 2
8,
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit SIN < Brake God's 10 Commandments>, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Now marcR why do you think James calls it the Royal LAW? Could it have something to do with God's LAW (10 commandments) from Exodus 20?

Wait a minuete look at the verses you left out showing CONTEXT. James is talking about SIN which God's Word defines as breaking any of God's 10 commandments (scriptures shown above).

Lets look further v11............

11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Look James is quoting from God's LAW (10 commandments)

Why did you part quote me here and not all the verses I quoted from James 2:8-12?

So are you correct? Are we talking about God's 10 commandments after all?

Seem God's Word disagrees with you.

....................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Hope this helps..
 
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valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by valiant
How sad it is to see that you do not even understand the teaching of Romans.

In chapter 2 he is in the middle of pointing out that ALL have sinned, both Jews who have the law and Gentiles who don't. Men cannot be saved either by obeying the law or doing good. The law judges. It can never save. Their ONLY hope is faith in Christ apart from the law
Romans is quite the letter. However it is the Faith of Christ not faith in.
Pity you don't know koine Greek otherwise you would know that 'the faith of Christ' (translating the genitive literally) means our faith in Christ. One language does not translate literally into another,
It is not Christ's faith that is in question but our faith in Him.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Is the Sabbath the great separating truth that will decide who the true believers are? According to the prophet Ellen White, the Sabbath is what separates real believers from false believers:

"I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God's dear, waiting saints."

Such a teaching is contrary to the New Testament. Never is the Sabbath described as a dividing issue by Jesus or the Apostles. Paul wrote:

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. (Rom. 14:5,6)

Stop and read Ellen White's quote again, and then read Paul's quote again. The two are completely incompatible!

In Romans 14 Paul goes through a lengthy discussion in which he warns Christians not to judge each other on points of minor importance. He concludes by saying, "Let us not therefore judge one another" (Rom. 14:13). The Adventist will argue that Paul did not have the Sabbath in mind when he wrote Romans 14, and that could well be the case. Nevertheless, if Paul thought the Sabbath was the "dividing wall" between Christians and non-Christians, don't you think he would have fought strenuously for its observance?

Throughout the New Testament Paul fights with all his might to establish the important doctrines of the Church: Faith, Hope, Love, Grace, Forgiveness, Salvation, Mercy. Paul also fights against the sins of the flesh. Paul even advocated cultural practices such as wearing a head-covering. Yet in all of his writings, he never mentions the seventh day Sabbath as being of particular importance to Christians. The only time he ever even mentions holy days (Rom. 14) he simply says that brethren should accept each other no matter what holy day they choose (or choose not) to observe.

How could Paul discuss holy days in such a casual manner if it was indeed the great "dividing wall" between true believers and false believers? If it was truly the great "dividing wall", then Paul would have been all over the issue in his writings, warning Christians of their duty! Instead, we find the Sabbath rarely even mentioned by any of the authors of the New Testament. If the Sabbath was indeed the "one great truth" that is to divide the true believers from the false ones, then surely the Apostles, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, would have emphasized its overwhelming importance in their writings. - Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Sabbath as Seal of God
 

Hizikyah

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Ellen White and the SDA do have some false teachings, and are not the creators of the Sabbath.

With that said the Creator does not esteem every day the same.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”[/FONT]
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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With that said the Creator does not esteem every day the same.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”[/FONT]
If you read the actual covenant, you know that the Creator does esteem every day the same.

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."
(Rom 14:5)

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by.. the Sabbath day.
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

(Col 2:16-17)
 

valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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Hello MarcR,

Are we reading from the same bible? You have to ignore a LOT of scriprture from the post you quoted in 2824 linked from to come up with your interpretation in this post. Are you saying that all the scriptures posted in post # 2824 linked is NOT referring to God's 10 Commandments?
Yes I am saying that. The ten words were to Israel. The 'commandments of God' are the whole range His moral law but are epitomised in John's letter See especially 1 John 3.22-23.

Lets start here and let God's Word define SIN ...........

James 2
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW


But James was writing to the twelve tribes of Israel (1.1), and even then he only cites the moral commandments as regards man. Show me just ONE passage where he cites the fourth word to Israel.

Of course as Paul points out we are all transgressors of the law. But Christ has redeemed in from the curse of the law being made a curse for us (Gal 3.10-13).

Links to...........

Romans 7

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
So Paul was condemned by the Law? That is why he turned from it to Christ. He entered into HIS rest.

 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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To be honest, I don't think primeval man had the language to even speak except in grunts and clicks, never mind such niceties as naming the days of the week.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:4,
“These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Elohim made earth and heavens.”[/FONT]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Genesis 2:4,
“These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that
יהוה Elohim made earth and heavens.”
The Jewish calendar is a nonsense.

According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BC. The current (2017/2018) Hebrew year is 5778. LINK
Creation began billions of years ago.

It has been revised several times since. In other words they got it wrong. Very wrong. LINK


The present Hebrew calendar is the product of evolution, including a Babylonian influence. Until the Tannaitic period (approximately 10–220 CE)......


Through the Amoraic period (200–500 CE) and into the Geonic period, this system was gradually displaced by the mathematical rules used today. The principles and rules were fully codified by Maimonides in the Mishneh Torah in the 12th century. Maimonides' work also replaced counting "years since the destruction of the Temple" with the modern creation-era Anno Mundi......


The era used since the Middle Ages is the Anno Mundi epoch (Latin for "in the year of the world"; Hebrew: לבריאת העולם‬, "from the creation of the world"). As with Anno Domini (A.D. or AD), the words or abbreviation for Anno Mundi (A.M. or AM) for the era should properly precede the date rather than follow it.
 
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Hi MMD,

It would be nice if you had something original to contribute rather then cutting and pasting website articles that have no basis in the Word of God.

If you keep looking to the teachings and traditions of men how can you know the Word of God? If you turn away from God how will you not be carried away with every wind of doctrine and be lead away to believe lies?

Let me make this clear. I follow no man or man made teachings. I follow only the Word of God. I stand only on the Word of God. It is on the Word of God we stand or fall and it is ONLY to the Word of God that I point all to find him who LOVES all.

You cut and paste and follow the teachings of men from the word of websites as your guide to truth.

Now what is the difference between someone following the person your website is talking about and you who are following the teachings from the person who has written the website? Are you not following the word of website as your belief and guide? So what you are really saying is dont believe them believe me and follow what this guy says.

How can you or anyone KNOW who is telling the truth if they do not KNOW the Word of God for themselves?

You point all to the word of website and the teachings of men because you do not KNOW the Word of God. If you knew God's Word you would point all to the Word of God because it is only in the Word of God that anyone can find Jesus.

It is only Jesus who can reveal his truth through His Spirit and set all free to LOVE and follow him. Should you not point all to God's Word instead of the teachings of men that promote braking the Commandments of God?

Let's have a look at what your website says and compare it with the scritpures..........

Is the Sabbath the great separating truth that will decide who the true believers are? According to the prophet Ellen White, the Sabbath is what separates real believers from false believers: "I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God's dear, waiting saints."
Who does God's Word describe as being His people in the last days.............

Revelation 12
17,
And the dragon <Devil> was wroth with the woman,<Church> and went to make war with the remnant of her seed <Minority> , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The DEVIL was angry with GOD'S CHURCH and went to make WAR with a MINORITY of her decendence which KEEP the COMMANDMENTS of GOD and have the TESTIMONY of JESUS CHRIST.

So what is the TESTIMONY OF JESUS?

links to.....

Revelation 19
10,
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.

links to.....

Revelation 14
12,
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.

links to.....

Revelation 22
14,
BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Let's put it all together........

1. God's Word says that his true people are described as those who who are a remnant of the true Church, they KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and they have THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS.

2, Letting the scriptures interpret themselves we see that the TESTIMONY of Jesus is the SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

3. God's people who KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD have the FAITH of Jesus

4. It is ONLY THESE people that KEEP the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD that are BLESSED with ETERNAL LIFE and Enter into the CITY of GOD.

These are those who BELIEVE His Word and through FAITH that works by LOVE keep all the commandments of God through Faith in Jesus (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12; Rev 12:17; 14:12: 22:14).

Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW him are NOT his people and do not KNOW HIM or trust in HIM for salvation because the FRUIT of their FAITH is not the OBEDIENCE of LOVE (James 2:18; 20; 27; 1 John 3:6-8).

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

If your tree does not bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE is will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:13-23)

I am sharing God's Word with you because of LOVE. God's Word is not Heresy it is the Word of God and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it because one day we shall be judged by it (John 12:47-48)

Paul wrote: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. (Rom. 14:5,6)


Where in the chapter or in the whole book of Romans does it even mention God's 4th commandment of the 7th day Sabbath of God's commandment?

If the whole chapter or book of Romans does not even mention God's LAW, the 4th commandment of the 7th day Sabbath of God's LAW why do you think it is talking about God's LAW (10 commandments)?

The simple truth is that the Chapter is not about God's commandment as it is not even mentioned. Let's look at the chapter and see what it is talking about...........

Romans 14
1,
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
2, For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3, Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4, Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…...............

(6), He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

links to .....

Isaiah 58
5, Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul?
is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

links to.....

Luke 18
11,
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…........

Luke 18:12
Twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted sometimes two days a week and also annually in the feasts of Lev 23.

7, For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8, For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9, For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10, But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11, For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12, So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13, Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean <ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy> of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean<ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy>, to him it is unclean.
15
, But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

(14) At the time meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Cor 10
25,
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles ; μάκελλον; makellon; mak'-el-lon Of Latin origin [macellum ]; a butcher's stall, meat market or provision shop: - shambles.

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by the thought of food being offered to idols. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them.

Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15............

1. The chapter is talking about a number of related topics
2. Overall it is talking about not juding those who are weak in the faith in relation to food connected to days or days dedicated to the Lord and that is all it is talking about.
3. Food connected to days in usually in relation to the annual festivals or fasting connected to weekly or Holy days unto the Lord (Lev 16:29. Num 29:7; Issaiah 58:5; Luke 18:11-12).
4. There is no mention of the Sabbath or God's 4th commandment in this chapter or the entire book of Romans.
5. Romans 14 is not talking about ABOLISHING ANY DAYS but only talking about judging others in relation to food or fasting connected to days dedicated to the LORD and food offered to idols.
6. The Chapter is consistant with all the other writing of Paul in relation to the jewish annual holy days fulfilled in Christ (eg, Colossains 2; Ephesians 2; Galatains 4:10; Hebrews 9:9-15; 10:1-17).
7. Paul's topics is summarised in v17; For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

It is very clear from reading the scriptures that this whole Chapter has nothing whatsoever at all to do with the 4th commandment which is to keep Holy the 7th day Sabbath but is talking about judging others in relation to food connected to holy days and idolatry.

The Adventist will argue that Paul did not have the Sabbath in mind when he wrote Romans 14, and that could well be the case. Nevertheless, if Paul thought the Sabbath was the "dividing wall" between Christians and non-Christians, don't you think he would have fought strenuously for its observance?
Why would Paul argue for someone to brake God's Commandments? This is against the teachings of Paul and God's Word because transgression of God's LAW is SIN.

Those who practice SIN do not KNOW him who LOVES them because they are still in their SINS. It is SIN that will keep ALL who practice it OUT of the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Would Paul teach SIN in order to KEEP peace and forsake SALVATION? This is indeed corary to God's WORD and is the teaching of men that brake the commandments of God.

Throughout the New Testament Paul fights with all his might to establish the important doctrines of the Church: Faith, Hope, Love, Grace, Forgiveness, Salvation, Mercy. Paul also fights against the sins of the flesh. Paul even advocated cultural practices such as wearing a head-covering. Yet in all of his writings, he never mentions the seventh day Sabbath as being of particular importance to Christians. The only time he ever even mentions holy days (Rom. 14) he simply says that brethren should accept each other no matter what holy day they choose (or choose not) to observe.
This statement is just simply not true at all. Paul was an advocate for God's LAW (10 Commandments) where it is upheld all through his writings.

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

How could Paul discuss holy days in such a casual manner if it was indeed the great "dividing wall" between true believers and false believers? If it was truly the great "dividing wall", then Paul would have been all over the issue in his writings, warning Christians of their duty! Instead, we find the Sabbath rarely even mentioned by any of the authors of the New Testament. If the Sabbath was indeed the "one great truth" that is to divide the true believers from the false ones, then surely the Apostles, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, would have emphasized its overwhelming importance in their writings. - Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Sabbath as Seal of God
Romans 14 has nothing whatsoever at all to do with the 4th commandment which is to keep Holy the 7th day Sabbath but is talking about judging others in relation to food connected to holy days and idolatry. There will always be a dividing wall between BELIEVERS and UNBELIVERS. The DIVIDING wall is called SIN.

God's Word tells us the SIN is the breaking of God's LAW (10 commandments).

It we keep 9 commandments and brake 1 then we stand guilty BEFORE GOD in SIN braking ALL of HIS LAW (James 2:8-12)
Those who practice SIN do not KNOW him who LOVES them because they are still in their SINS.

It is SIN that will keep ALL who practice it OUT of the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

As is was in the days of Noah and Sodom so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man. It was SIN that detroyed the World the first time and it will be SIN that destroys the World the second time choose this day who you will serve tomorrrow may be to la te.

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) if you break ANY one of them you stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek him in REPENTANCE and FORGIVENESS. Please read; James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12.

If your tree does not bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE is will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:13-23)

...........................
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)
 
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Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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The Jewish calendar is a nonsense.

According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BC. The current (2017/2018) Hebrew year is 5778. LINK
Creation began billions of years ago.

It has been revised several times since. In other words they got it wrong. Very wrong. LINK
that has nothing to do with the fact that:

Genesis 2:4,
“These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that
יהוה Elohim made earth and heavens.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:18, "For thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Creator of the heavens, He is Mighty, Sculptor of earth and its Maker, He established it, He did not create it to be empty, He formed it to be inhabited: “I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and there is none else."[/FONT][/FONT]

 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Ellen White and the SDA do have some false teachings, and are not the creators of the Sabbath.

With that said the Creator does not esteem every day the same.

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”
If you read the actual covenant, you know that the Creator does esteem every day the same.

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."
(Rom 14:5)

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by.. the Sabbath day.
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

(Col 2:16-17)
Ohh, OK I guess He changed His mind then?

Oh wait, no, the plan is still going:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever


To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”
[/FONT]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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that has nothing to do with the fact that:

Genesis 2:4,
“These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that
יהוה Elohim made earth and heavens.”

Isaiah 45:18, "For thus said יהוה, Creator of the heavens, He is Mighty, Sculptor of earth and its Maker, He established it, He did not create it to be empty, He formed it to be inhabited: “I am יהוה, and there is none else."
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens. And every shrub of the field was not yet on the earth, and every plant of the field had not yet sprung up, for Jehovah God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no man to till the ground. But there went up from the earth a mist and watered all the face of the ground. And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward in Eden. And there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food. The tree of life also was in the middle of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And a river went out of Eden to water the garden. And from there it was divided and became four heads. The name of the first is Pishon; that is it which surrounds all the land of Havilah, where there is gold. And the gold of that land is good. There is bdellium and the onyx stone. And the name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one that surrounds the whole land of Cush. And the name of the third river is Tigris; it is that which goes toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
(Gen 2:4-14 MKJV)

Where is the calendar?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens. And every shrub of the field was not yet on the earth, and every plant of the field had not yet sprung up, for Jehovah God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no man to till the ground. But there went up from the earth a mist and watered all the face of the ground. And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward in Eden. And there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food. The tree of life also was in the middle of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And a river went out of Eden to water the garden. And from there it was divided and became four heads. The name of the first is Pishon; that is it which surrounds all the land of Havilah, where there is gold. And the gold of that land is good. There is bdellium and the onyx stone. And the name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one that surrounds the whole land of Cush. And the name of the third river is Tigris; it is that which goes toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
(Gen 2:4-14 MKJV)

Where is the calendar?
YHWH is ther Creator of heavens and earth, this was my point. Also He created the true calendar:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:14, "And the Mighty One said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 104:19, "You appointed the moon for setting the appointed times. The sun knows its going down."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]appointed times is word #H4150 - Original Word: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]מוֹעֵד[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: moed, Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ade'), Short Definition: meeting, Word Origin from yaad, Definition - appointed time, place, or meeting[/FONT][/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 44:24, “Thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb, “I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], doing all, stretching out the heavens all alone, spreading out the earth, with none beside Me.”[/FONT]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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YHWH is ther Creator of heavens and earth, this was my point. Also He created the true calendar:

Genesis 1:14, "And the Mighty One said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years.”


Psalm 104:19, "You appointed the moon for setting the appointed times. The sun knows its going down."


appointed timesis word #H4150 - Original Word: מוֹעֵד, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: moed, Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ade'), Short Definition: meeting, Word Origin from yaad, Definition - appointed time, place, or meeting
You do know that each 'day' was an epoch of several thousand years don't you?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Ohh, OK I guess He changed His mind then?
No, He changed the covenant!!!!

Also, 99% of the world population was never under the old covenant, anyway.
 
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MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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The Jewish calendar is a nonsense.

According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BC. The current (2017/2018) Hebrew year is 5778. LINK
Creation began billions of years ago.

It has been revised several times since. In other words they got it wrong. Very wrong. LINK
The Jewish calendar has been in continuous use since before the Exodus. There have been two well documented adjustments.
The Gregorian Calendar has been in use since 1582 and has had 4 adjustments which have been equally well documented.
If there is nonsense it is coming from you.